HAMMER DOWN Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Anyone have the link to the thread on how to check and remove these banjo bolt filters? I'm thinking my 09 LGT probably still has them installed. At 53k miles now. Start here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2-5gt-turbo-oil-supply-banjo-bolt-filter-removal-61689.html Mileage:331487 Retired/Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 After having hundreds of turbos apart, many with broken shafts, everyone knows my thoughts on the stupidity of putting a filter in basically the feed line to the heart of the engine. Starve the heart and the body dies. No different when starving the turbo and it blows and sends it's wonderful shrapnel right down into the short block and basically destroys everything along the way. It's amazing how these opinions seem to come up when even Subaru finally found a bit of common sense and abandoned the lunacy of these things after only a couple of years. I've never heard of an Audi or VW, or Ford, or Chrysler, or Mitsubishi, or any other manufacturer that installs turbos having a potential restriction in the oil feed line to their turbos. You have an oil filter on the car. It FILTERS oil as intended and it's all that's necessary to keep the oil clean, providing you do oil changes as they are needed and don't drive like an asshat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Well, maybe the problem is Subaru did not put enough of the filters in random oil lines. Should have had atleast 42 of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 JmP6889928 hit the nail on the head, perfect explanation. Anyone have the link to the thread on how to check and remove these banjo bolt filters? I'm thinking my 09 LGT probably still has them installed. At 53k miles now. Here is another How to for banjo removals, I tried to add a ton more pictures then Rao's thread. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/remove-all-banjo-filters-222758.html 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizSub Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I replaced two turbos on my 2009 2.5XT Outback. When the stock one went, I replaced it with a BNR 18G. I removed the stock banjo bolt filter on the rear of the head and put an inline Forced Performance filter in. Checked it a few times (hard to do) and did not see any crud, but replaced the screen anyway each time. After one year the BNR turbo failed. I replaced it with the same, another BNR 18G turbo. Kept the oil lines the same except used a banjo bolt with two larger orifices on the turbo inlet. Did not see any shavings or other bad signs in the oil. Oil was changed every 3000 miles. There is 120K on the engine and now there is rod knock on #4 and have to replace the short block and heads. Argh. My question relates to the oil flow to the turbo and AVCS. Since now I basically have unrestricted flow to the turbo due to the much larger orifices in the turbo inlet banjo bolt, I wonder if there is less flow to the AVCS and that is what caused the rod bearings to go? The oil feed comes from the rear of the engine, hits a tee, one side goes to the FP inline filter and then turbo; the other side goes to the AVCS inlet on the front passenger side of engine. I am using -4AN tubing. My first guess is that there is enough oil pressure for the difference in flow restriction (lack thereof now) to the turbo vs AVCS not to matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I've been seeing a lot of posts about BNR Turbo failures, either they starving of oil (due to oil flow issues) or the turbo quality issues. Stock turbo lines have a restrictor right outside the head and right at the turbo. If you run a turbo that requires more flow (which just about most do). You do need a bigger line to keep the turbo from starving, the question then is are you starving the AVCS? Does it matter that we are starving the AVCS? I don't think so, according to the Subaru Diagram oil that goes into the camshaft doesn't drain anywhere, it just goes back to the feed line where to the turbo. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259092&stc=1&d=1512142577 When I was upgrading my turbo, I thought about doing a -4an to turbo and -6an (about stock AVCS size) to AVCS, but decided against it due to high cost and not really benefiting all that much. Thus I used two -4an lines to my Kinugawa 16G, first thing I made sure of is proper AVCS operation on RH head (low flow = lower AVCS then LH head). I have about 20k miles on this setup and probably 500 redline pulls for tuning and it's still doing fine. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 Update. about 2500 miles after shortblock swap. Very slight misfire at idle, barely noticeable at cruise. possibly running little rich. no CEL. Doesn't visibly shake, tach is solid, but you can feel it. I'm suspecting fuel related, does not appear to be isolated to a specific cylinder. response, boost was good, fuel consumption as expected. Everything was great until a recent 3000ft elevation climb at 80mph on cruise control. Something smelled, up pipe was glowing. I no longer have boost. Any ideas? I'll be taking things apart soon, pulling the up pipe, if I will inspect the screens and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Only 2500 miles. Our 2018 Outback has more miles then that. You need to drive the car more. What year car is your's ? If its a 05-06. you may have a problem with the cat in the up pipe. 07-09 didn't have them. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 Only 2500 miles. Our 2018 Outback has more miles then that. You need to drive the car more. What year car is your's ? If its a 05-06. you may have a problem with the cat in the up pipe. 07-09 didn't have them. It's an '05, about 103k miles on the clock. replacement short block installed 2500 miles ago. The up pipe will be replaced, but as I pointed out there other underlying issues causing misfire. I'll check the compression first then simplify the intake to eliminate possible vacuum leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Did you keep the catted up pipe or put a catless in there when you redid the block? 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 I put the stock catted up pipe back in. The car ran great tho. I think I have a boost leak at the plastic TMIC end tank. That would make it pig rich on that hill climb. I'll inspect the IC soon. Not sure about the minor intermittent misfire. Surprisingly fuel trims look good 0-3%. Its not isolated to a cylinder. could it still be a small vacuum leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Well that's your problem, your up pipe cat is clogged. Which would jive with no boost issue too. I have TMIC leak (oil on end tanks too) but the leak is minor enough that I'm not concerned about it. Fuel trims adjustments don't happen above a certain point of boost, since it's open loop by that point, so by the time it's leaking air out ECU doesn't care. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 If the up pipe was glowing, the cat is clogged. Most likely from junk from the original short block. If you remove the up pipe and cut it before the cat, you'll most likely see crap all stuck in the honeycomb or a tar like substance from oil, if it was using a lot. Catalytic converters should never fail. The design is basically for endless use, but anytime a foreign material is introduced, then the converter will break down, clog, or simply disintegrate. Get it off as quick as you can and you'll probably find it in chunks inside. Happened to me on a Mazda 626 like that and it would idle fine but had absolutely no power. Took the cats out, and it ran fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 Exhaust back pressure test revealed about 10psi at front o2 bung when revving in neutral. About 5psi on up pipe EGT bung after the cat. 10 is bad, is 5 ok? Installing catless up pipe, eliminating things and addressing several other issues along with screens inspection. I've been trying to find a shorty downpipe that works with stock mid pipe, witch I'm unable to eliminate, we get mirrored at inspections. They appear to be hard to find, do '02-07 models work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Mine would be 0psi at idle, about 1-2psi at 70mph (2,900rpm at 0psi boost or so). Mine peaked at 23psi by redline (~11psi) on stock catback. Your pre turbo cat is clogged. Look at Stromung downpipe shorties. But that eliminates the biggest cat behind the turbo, which means rear o2 will throw a cell. IMO you can probably get away with stock downpipe for a long time, just ditch the catted up pipe. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 Your pre turbo cat is clogged. Yep, just wanted to get little scientific before I pulled the turbo, cuz removing the manifold doesnt do it for the catted UP. Look at Stromung downpipe shorties. But that eliminates the biggest cat behind the turbo I see these 2002-2007 GD downpipes often. They look different than 2008+ WRX shorty downpipes. Do they fit our cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 You don't have to pull the turbo, just drop the manifold and swap up pipe, which is how most of us do it, here's my detailed how to guide. The secondary part of the downpipe is what's different, the first half should be the same. I ran mine with a stainless secondary meant for Legacy's but you should be able to bolt it up to the stock pipe. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 Did you raise the engine or move the P/S lines? I spent about 30min trying every possible way, do dice. Maybe my motor mounts are worn and my engine sits lower.. GD and GE/BL shorty downpipes are different, the flange is further back on GD dp, shorter back section, longer front section. I've not seen an LGT or 08+ wrx with '02-07 DP installed, that goes for one piece dp as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relative4 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Loosen the passenger side mount and pry the engine up 1/2" by the mount, UP falls right out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Did you raise the engine or move the P/S lines? I spent about 30min trying every possible way, do dice. Maybe my motor mounts are worn and my engine sits lower.. I don't remember having to unbolt or raise the motor, I just slowly wiggle it out, just be careful not to damage the valve cover half moons. You can unbolt the passenger motor mount and raise the motor up a little to give you a tiny bit more clearance. Also, EGT sensor should be removed ahead of time, if it's stuck break it off cause that will get in the way and break anyway. GD and GE/BL shorty downpipes are different, the flange is further back on GD dp, shorter back section, longer front section. I've not seen an LGT or 08+ wrx with '02-07 DP installed, that goes for one piece dp as well. The first half of the downpipe (the part that bolts to the turbo) should be the same. It's the second half (the part that goes to the catback) that's different between older WRX/FXT's and ours. On factory downpipes the first half unbolts, which is where you can install the Stromung or similar shorty downpipe 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 update. installed catless UP, boost is back. the idle is still not super smooth, but I'm gonna live with it for now. interesting, it only took 20 min of aggressive uphill driving to clog what appeared to be a good UP. swapped turbos, installed VF52 and other parts including the transmission from my parts car. Still looking for a shorty down pipe and converting my linux machine to run windows to get ecuflash going. Inspected BB filter 3500 miles after SB swap, no contamination. Inspected BB filter on other unknown mile parts engine, poor maintenance, oil leaks and other issues, no contamination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Did you get a tune after you swap the turbo and uppipe? If you didn't, be very careful. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetdrv Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 No, but I bypassed the wg solenoid so its not boosting very hard. Still have the stock air box and the other 2 factory cats. wbo2, boost gauge and a tune are next. ecuflash doesnt work with linux, so windows is a must, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59ctd Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 ...and converting my linux machine to run windows to get ecuflash going. Another option to get Windows running on a Linux system is to find/download VirtualBox -or- VMware Player and then create & install a simple Windows virtual host right on your Linux system. Both software can be downloaded for free for Linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 interesting, it only took 20 min of aggressive uphill driving to clog what appeared to be a good UP. Stock tunes at wot are really lean than rich, in the right conditions that causes the material to break down or get clogged. Though I doubt 20min did it, but years of driving did. No, but I bypassed the wg solenoid so its not boosting very hard. Still have the stock air box and the other 2 factory cats. wbo2, boost gauge and a tune are next. ecuflash doesnt work with linux, so windows is a must, correct? Still be careful, since VF52 is more efficient it requires a lot less timing, meaning stock aggressive map will still be past MBT and in knock zones even on low boost. 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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