CVT - simulated shifts - what are your thoughts and opinions?

[Fiatz79]

I was actually talking about disabling the programmed fake shifts. Just thought it would be fun to have continuous acceleration sometimes and actually take advantage of gearlessness.

(Is that a word)? :-)

Cheers.

[Brisvegas]

gearlessness. (Is that a word)?

 

If not then it should be

[airken888]

Has anyone tried turning off their VDC (button with a car and squiggly lines) yet?

[gathermewool]

Jeez dude, no need to be rude about it. Was just trying to help. And people wonder why there's low involvement here lol.

 

The low involvement is because there are more people posting zero-value-added posts than anything useful. Part of that is people who fail to read before they post. Seriously, dude, you posted about paddle shifters when it's completely off-topic. It makes it seems as if you couldn't care less about the thread, any concerns we might be discussing, as well as the conversation we're having.

 

I find this to be equivalent to someone in the office interrupting a conversation mid-way to inject something irrelevant, because they made incorrect assumptions about what we were talking about. THAT is rude, my dude.

[gathermewool]

Has anyone tried turning off their VDC (button with a car and squiggly lines) yet?

 

I can't imagine Subaru would allow us to disable VDC in these cars. Traction Control, sure.

[lolibater]

The low involvement is because there are more people posting zero-value-added posts than anything useful. Part of that is people who fail to read before they post. Seriously, dude, you posted about paddle shifters when it's completely off-topic. It makes it seems as if you couldn't care less about the thread, any concerns we might be discussing, as well as the conversation we're having.

 

I find this to be equivalent to someone in the office interrupting a conversation mid-way to inject something irrelevant, because they made incorrect assumptions about what we were talking about. THAT is rude, my dude.

 

Forgot that you were the all knowing, never wrong god; my mistake, carry on your greatness.

[gathermewool]

Forgot that you were the all knowing, never wrong god; my mistake, carry on your greatness.

 

It's odd that you deflect from your lack of attention to detail and not paying attention to any part of the conversations ongoing and make a claim that is not provable. I never, ever claim to know anything more than I actually know or have experienced, to the maximum extent practical. I also try to read threads before posting and, if I'm wrong or make a mistake, admit to it.

[ammcinnis]

I was actually talking about disabling the programmed fake shifts.

Thanks for the clarification.

[airken888]

Right.. Well my manual says there is an off switch and I've used it before and it does disable the programmed shifts..

 

I can't imagine Subaru would allow us to disable VDC in these cars. Traction Control, sure.

[DrD123]

the manual definitely states when you hit the button with the skidding car icon, that the vehicle dynamics control is turned off (since they point out in the manual that there are two functions to that - traction control and skid suppression, it sounds like the whole shooting match is disabled)

 

I wasn't able to find anything about disabling the simulated shift points.

[hkshooter]

What is a "simulated shift point"?

 

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[ripstik]

What is a "simulated shift point"?

 

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the CVT pretends to have gears by "shifting" between preselected ratios so that the pleebs, that don't know a damn thing about cars, don't think it feels funny.... CVT's were banned from F1 because they were too damn fast and they are negating this, it's only, advantage.

[hkshooter]

the CVT pretends to have gears by "shifting" between preselected ratios

 

Pretend shifts between actual ratios? From one ratio to the next, actual real ratio? I fail to see how this is a pretend shift.

 

... so that the pleebs, that don't know a damn thing about cars, don't think it feels funny....

 

But the pretend shifts only occur when the throttle is applied aggressively? So during normal operation there are no pretend shift points. How then do the pleebs not continue to think it feels funny if they aren't in the throttle constantly?

 

were banned from F1 because they were too damn fast and they are negating this, it's only, advantage.

 

This is interesting, I did not know this. Must find something to read.

 

Thanks for your explanation.

[DrD123]

Pretend shifts between actual ratios? From one ratio to the next, actual real ratio? I fail to see how this is a pretend shift.

 

But the pretend shifts only occur when the throttle is applied aggressively? So during normal operation there are no pretend shift points. How then do the pleebs not continue to think it feels funny if they aren't in the throttle constantly?.

No - it does it as normal behavior - so in a gentle acceleration, it cycles through a number of fixed "shift points" - basically, instead of only using the shift points when you in manual mode, it uses them all the time. (I am guessing there is a program of some sort it uses to determine when it wants to shift, and when it behaves more CVT like)

 

It's a pretend shift because you aren't shifting between clutch packs or anything like that - it's just arbitrary programmed behavior. (though one could argue that a shift is a shift, irrespective of if it's mechanical or done through software, I suppose)

[ammcinnis]

Pretend shifts between actual ratios? From one ratio to the next, actual real ratio? I fail to see how this is a pretend shift.

Perhaps you would prefer "pretend gearshift?" We could try "pretend discrete shift," but that would not only be inelegant but also subject to the same semantic weakness as "pretend shift."

Edited April 13, 2019 by ammcinnis

[ehsnils]

This is interesting, I did not know this. Must find something to read.

 

Thanks for your explanation.

 

 

Here's a video on the subject:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UpBKXMRto]Williams FW15C CVT - YouTube[/ame]

 

 

I thought everyone had seen that by now.

[ripstik]

Pretend shifts between actual ratios? From one ratio to the next, actual real ratio? I fail to see how this is a pretend shift.

shifts typically mean from one gear to another and there is a loss of engagement between them. CVT's (continuously variable transmissions) don't do this, they VARy their ratios, and should do this CONTINUOUSLY. in my mind this means the "shift" from one ratio to another isn't a shift a all but simply a quick varying of drive ratios... of course this is all semantics but saying that subaru forces "drive ratios to vary quickly to simulate the way that traditionally geared transmissions shifts between predetermined drive ratios" just doesn't role off the tongue as nice as "shifts between pretend gears"

 

But the pretend shifts only occur when the throttle is applied aggressively? So during normal operation there are no pretend shift points. How then do the pleebs not continue to think it feels funny if they aren't in the throttle constantly?

to my knowledge pretend shifts are not only during aggressive acceleration. when i had a forester as a loaner it always pretended to have gears.

 

 

... you got a problem guy?

Edited April 15, 2019 by ripstik

[SubieN8]

shifts typically mean from one gear to another and there is a loss of engagement between them. CVT's (continuously variable transmissions) don't do this, they VARy their ratios, and should do this CONTINUOUSLY. in my mind this means the "shift" from one ratio to another isn't a shift a all but simply a quick varying of drive ratios... of course this is all semantics but saying that subaru forces "drive ratios to vary quickly to simulate the way that traditionally geared transmissions shifts between predetermined drive ratios" just doesn't role off the tongue as nice as "shifts between pretend gears"

 

 

to my knowledge pretend shifts are not only during aggressive acceleration. when i had a forester as a loaner it always pretended to have gears.

 

 

... you got a problem guy?

 

If you keep the RPMs under 2,500 (or a little less), you won't feel those "shifts". I also drove the 2019 Forester, as well as the Ascent and both act the same around 2,000 RPMs, as mine and the Husband's 2018 Crosstrek.

[DrD123]

If you keep the RPMs under 2,500 (or a little less),

It hurts just thinking about that.

[SubieN8]

It hurts just thinking about that.

 

LOL, maybe for you in your GT, but for us 2.5r's

[tumbleweed 49]

Kind of bothersome at first but after a few months I pretty much quit noticing them. But I don't think they have any real value. Anything the fake shift points do the CVT could do just as well without them.

[Climber76]

I like the simulated shifts -- it gives you clear audio signal regarding how the car is accelerating, without having to monitor the speedometer. I have read that the simulated shifting actually very slightly degrades performance versus a normal CVT constant-RPM behavior, but in my opinion, makes the car more drivable. I'm not a fan of the constant-engine-speed acceleration I get around town at moderate throttle settings, and I have REALLY disliked it in rentals I have had such as Nissans, where getting onto the freeway involves a constant high drone from the engine. It's like driving a manual transmission car with a blown clutch. My 2016 Legacy is in the shop, and I have a 2018 Outback rental, which seems to go into the simulating shifting mode more easily, but that may be because the extra weight of the Outback requires more throttle to get under way. Overall, I find the performance of the Legacy seems heavy and sluggish off the line and around town, but responsive to the point of being almost fun on the open road. Edited April 17, 2019 by Climber76

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Pretend shifts between actual ratios? From one ratio to the next, actual real ratio? I fail to see how this is a pretend shift.

 

 

 

But the pretend shifts only occur when the throttle is applied aggressively? So during normal operation there are no pretend shift points. How then do the pleebs not continue to think it feels funny if they aren't in the throttle constantly?

 

 

 

This is interesting, I did not know this. Must find something to read.

 

Thanks for your explanation.

 

 

1. yes it is between actual predefined ratios

2. the car simulates sifts until you put the petal to the floor at which point it reverts back to pegging the engine at the HP peak and letting the car accellerate using the best ratio as speed increases.

[gathermewool]

1. yes it is between actual predefined ratios

2. the car simulates sifts until you put the petal to the floor at which point it reverts back to pegging the engine at the HP peak and letting the car accellerate using the best ratio as speed increases.

 

This is not how my '15 operates.

 

Pegging the throttle will max out RPM...and then "shift"...and then shift again and again.

 

It's stupid and inefficient!

Edited April 17, 2019 by gathermewool

[gathermewool]

Also, I LOVE how the CVT in our '14 FXT operates, WITHOUT the simulate gear shifting. At 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, it sticks at 3-4k RPM and boosts to 15+ psig and just GOES.

 

I understand that, for a similar desired acceleration (OK, not so similar), getting up in the RPM is required for the 2.5i to produce any sort of power. While I would still prefer this, due to its efficiency, I can see why others wouldn't want the relatively unrefined 2.5i continuously pegged at one high RPM every time they hit a short on-ramp.