CVT - simulated shifts - what are your thoughts and opinions?

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I have seen a lot of opinions that the CVT "learns" shift points but no evidence. I think it doesn't learn at all but the EMS probably does and people think the CVT is changing. But I have no evidence for that either.

 

I tried mine last week and if I put my foot to the floor from a dead stop (shifter in D) it will shift the first time at 60 MPH, then again at 70. I did not go any faster because I was in a 50 MPH zone. I think the RPM was around 5700 or 5800. If I move the shifter to the M position, but do not use the paddle shifter, the shift RPM will be about 6300.

 

EDIT: Tried it again this morning and I detected a shift at about 45 MPH which would have been 1st to 2nd. The two listed above would have been 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th I think. These are at full throttle in D. Speeds might be a little off because I look at the tach to tell when it shifts and by the time my glance has shifted to the speedometer it has changed.

 

 

the TCM does learn how you drive the car and reacts accordingly... I am very gentle on my car typically accelerating around 2 to 2.3K on the tach and the machine is very smooth. it gets confused when i ask for more throttle on rare occasions...(ie my foot is in it to pass or merge on the FWY)

[SubieN8]

^ Ditto that.

[tumbleweed 49]

the TCM does learn how you drive the car and reacts accordingly... I am very gentle on my car typically accelerating around 2 to 2.3K on the tach and the machine is very smooth. it gets confused when i ask for more throttle on rare occasions...(ie my foot is in it to pass or merge on the FWY)

 

OK maybe so, but how long does it take to learn and what happens when you have more than one driver and there are different driving styles?

 

I did read an opinion on another site that said it takes a couple of thousand miles and averages the driving styles together. If that's true it could be learning its little heart out and we would never know it. Does the CVT learn new shift points and does the EMS change the throttle mapping? I can't think of a test we can do to find out what is happening. The only thing I have found so far is opinions and guesses. I too take it pretty easy on the car except when I am passing on a 2 lane road or entering a freeway in some locations, but I have not noticed the "confusion" you mentioned.

 

I realize this is all academic and the car is going to do whatever it is programed to do, but I am curious.

[subiefan15]

Late to the party here but I like the simulated shifts. That's part of what made the CVT tolerable for me. It doesn't act like a "normal" CVT which gets super annoying. Drive a Nissan around the block and you wont want to go any farther. I think 6 simulated shift points was fine, now Subaru is adding 8, not sure why since its only simulated but we will see how the new CVT's with the new oil feels and reacts.

[gathermewool]

Comic relief: I was at my local Subaru dealer's service department a couple of months ago. They were attending to a customer who reported that the transmission in her Gen 5 Outback must not be working correctly: She couldn't feel it shift. (True story.)

 

 

Lucky lady! If only the CVT in my '15 Legacy worked like that!

[gathermewool]

Late to the party here but I like the simulated shifts. That's part of what made the CVT tolerable for me. It doesn't act like a "normal" CVT which gets super annoying. Drive a Nissan around the block and you wont want to go any farther. I think 6 simulated shift points was fine, now Subaru is adding 8, not sure why since its only simulated but we will see how the new CVT's with the new oil feels and reacts.

 

I'd prefer 50 shift points. You know, closer to what it's supposed to do.

 

Moving to 8 shift points is likely for 2 reasons:

 

1. Makes the AT feel more refined, similar to other makes that are upping the number of gears in their traditional, slush-box AT's.

 

2. More efficient and less wear, since it's not shifting ratios so broadly at higher loads. For me, at moderate throttle, these shifts feel super rubber-bandy and it pisses me off. WOT isn't actually as terrible, but it's still not desirable shifting behavior for me, at least.

 

I totally understand why your average consumer can't stand historical CVT behavior, but it still pisses me off that we in the minority have to live with this kind of inefficiency.

Edited May 8, 2019 by gathermewool

[ehsnils]

According to the info I got the other day the later CVTs on Subies have a wider range too - both a lower start gear ratio and a higher ratio at the high end.

[Brisvegas]

What are your thoughts on the Subaru Lineartronic CVT?.

 

 

Until recently, I wasn't aware of the push belt driven CVT's. I am not an engineer, so obviously my opinion is baseless, but after watching the following videos, the push belt design does not fill me with confidence in regards to longevity ... and whilst there has obviously been plenty of discussion about the longevity of Subaru's chain style CVT's ... I know which one I now prefer

 

 

 

[Motorman_55792]

I know I am bringing one back from the dead, but I HATE the fake shifts.

If there was a way to reprogram the trans to work like the 10-14 CVT I would be all over that. Magazine reviewers and customers that don't understand what a CVT is and why its better have led to a POS that I'm confident is slower and going to have a reduced life span from the fake shifts. At least I get good mileage. I let off every time it starts "shifting" and baby it to make it run as a CVT almost all the time.

[Fiatz79]

I think it would be a blast for the user to be able to turn off shift points at will.

[hkshooter]

I think it would be a blast for the user to be able to turn off shift points at will.

Pull the ger selector over and use the paddles. Done.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[gathermewool]

Pull the ger selector over and use the paddles. Done.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Which would....also simulate shifts.

 

We want NO shift points.

[BradLegacy2017]

I agree, for those that prefer the CVT operation with no simulated shifts, there should be an option to turn it off. Some sort of "mode" that can be enabled and disabled.

 

I still prefer the simulated shifts, especially after being in a car with a CVT with no simulated shifts. It was annoying, like riding a go kart and the engine just endlessly rev'ing. Stupid rubber band feeling too.

 

I like on my 2017 Legacy though that if I am easy on the accelerator and baby it that it will be CVT without the shifts and be really smooth and economic. If I need to be harder on it it will then use the 6 ratios more like a geared transmission. I don't care if the simulated shifts make it a little slower.

 

Just my preference.

[gathermewool]

I agree, for those that prefer the CVT operation with no simulated shifts, there should be an option to turn it off. Some sort of "mode" that can be enabled and disabled.

 

I still prefer the simulated shifts, especially after being in a car with a CVT with no simulated shifts. It was annoying, like riding a go kart and the engine just endlessly rev'ing. Stupid rubber band feeling too.

 

I like on my 2017 Legacy though that if I am easy on the accelerator and baby it that it will be CVT without the shifts and be really smooth and economic. If I need to be harder on it it will then use the 6 ratios more like a geared transmission. I don't care if the simulated shifts make it a little slower.

 

Just my preference.

 

That's what it's all about, and why most people like me, who don't like the fake-shifting, aren't hating on those who like them.

 

I was EXPECTING to hate the CVT in our '14 FXT when I traded our '08 STI for it (long story). After only 15 minutes of test-driving I was sold. I think it's the perfect implementation of CVT logic. If you want it to behave like a CVT, do nothing. If you want it to behave like "sporty" 8-speed, hit the S# button. If you're not familiar, there are three modes, in order of "sportiness" and aggressiveness

 

I-mode: no simulated shifts, maintains RPM as low as possible. The is the default mode (every time you start the vehicle, it defaults to this mode); this is the mode my wife uses 99% of the time. It still provides full power if you floor it.

 

S-mode: no simulated shifts, maintains RPM a few hundred high than I-mode for quicker turbo response when you get on it. This is the mode I use 99% of the time.

 

S#-mode: DOES simulate shifts, maintains revs same as S-mode, except when you drive aggressively; it will keep revs UP instead of down-shifting immediately, assuming you'll be getting on it, engine-braking, then getting on it again some time soon. I hate this mode in auto. I don't need to floor it, let off and have the revs hanging at 4-5K RPM for no reason.

 

If I want to drive aggressively, I usually drive in S-mode auto or S#-mode manual.

 

//

 

As for the '15 Legacy, I like that it acts like a CVT at low loads. I honestly don't mind it fake-shifting at moderate loads, since it seems to respond pretty quickly. It's at around 70%+ load where it seems to affect actual performance, in that it can't shift quickly enough and does so needlessly at higher RPM, since an N/A CVT would be at max HP by staying put at whatever high RPM is needed. Shifting to a lower ratio is literally only for the driver to feel that sensation and for no good reason at all.