CNT TMIC????? (not the PW style)

[gtonstilts]

I have the IPR TMIC and it fits terribly!

To make it fit i had to do the following:

A) drill a whole between the 2 stock holes on drivers side bracket and use just the 1 bolt

B) cut 2 avo throttle body hoses in half and use the more exteme bends from both with a pipe between them.

C) after all that it was still off by over an inch from ligning up like the stock piece, so i had to put the tb hose on first and pry the intercooler till one of the turbo bolts lined up, then pry against the fire wall to line up the other hole.

 

+1 for the mr gasket thermostat gasket, its a perfect fit !

[covertrussian]

I seem to remember about 10 years ago my son called me and said the IAT on the Civic with the big fmic was reading just a little over ambient air temp on a 95F day when he was driving to the Drag Strip on the Mass Pike going to Lebanon Valley.

 

My IAT's are 0-10*F over ambient on my Inifiniti with a Precision Turbo 350hp FMIC. The IAT sensor is in the engine bay on aluminum pipe so that's why it gets a little warmer then ambient, as soon as I start opening the throttle it cools down.

 

I believe even a cheap ebay FMIC will outperform good TMIC at cooling (not pressure drop), it's just piping on these cars are such a paint in the neck.

[Max Capacity]

Here's that fmic from back in the day. This was the same fmic when the car was near the end of its life as a street car.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCF0752.jpg

[covertrussian]

That's massive, the one I run is about half that and it does more then fine .

 

Heck I used to run the CX Racing one on my Infiniti for the longest time and it did great. It was only 2-2.5" thick but it worked very well because it's on the heavier side of cheap IC's. The Precision one is 3.5" thick so I had to really gut my bumper to get it to fit, no more sleeper status.

 

Intercoolers work like computer heat sinks, the denser/heavier they are the better they work. This is how thick the current one is:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/00%20G20t%20KH3/Turbo/Intake/Precision%20350hp/CIMG1705.jpg~original

[LatentWagen]

Intercoolers work like computer heat sinks, the denser/heavier they are the better they work.

 

Not really. They do the same job, but they work differently.

 

Computer heat sinks are large surface area for radiating heat away. Intercoolers are designed to have air pass through them: convection not radiation. The OEMs almost always use lighter tube & fin, and it's not just cost-cutting.

 

Some good info in this video about the topic:

 

[covertrussian]

Not really. They do the same job, but they work differently.

 

Computer heat sinks are large surface area for radiating heat away. Intercoolers are designed to have air pass through them: convection not radiation. The OEMs almost always use lighter tube & fin, and it's not just cost-cutting.

 

Some good info in this video about the topic:

 

 

Actually computer heat sinks rely on convection and radiation (and conduction), since most heat sinks and computer cases have fans, they will rely on convection cooling too .

 

OEM's use Tube and Fin because they are light (less car weight and less material needed), they have less pressure drop, and they do the job good enough at stock boost levels. Check out

, he says that a bar & tube designs are more efficient at cooling too.

 

Finally I highly encourage you to check out this Auto Speed article about intercoolers being heat sinks, it's a fun read: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=The-Fusion-Intercooler&A=110772

 

EDIT: And another article saying Bar & Plate is better and that he heavier weight is better because it acts like a heat sink:

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/

 

Wang had a more upbeat tone when it came to bar-and-plate construction. "Spearco pioneered bar-and-plate core design. True, the bar-and-plate design is a bit heavier than tube and fin, but this is actually advantageous.

 

"The core acts as a heat sink. Its ability to soak up more heat is especially useful in stop-and-go traffic. It keeps the charge relatively cool, then is able to dissipate the heat once the vehicle is in motion. Tube-and-fin units can't pull this off.

[LatentWagen]

Since the heavier intercooler is better at being a heat sink, wouldn't it hold on to the heat it absorbs longer? Thermal mass, and all?

 

So, in stop and go, the lighter tube and fin would heat up faster, but also cool down faster, once you get moving.

 

There are trade-offs for both designs. I run bar & plate on my car, which sees more WOT and can benefit from better flow, and I run OEM STi tube & fin on the Saabaru, which sees more daily duty/stop & go.

[covertrussian]

Say your driving around town, your intercooler is gonna be about ambient temp, when you go get into boost, the boost starts warming up the intercooler then:

• If you have a light weight tube and fin, the intercooler will warm up from ambient temperatures really quickly, because it doesn't have the mass to retain the ambient temperature. At this point your banking on airlfow only to cool the charge.
  
• If you have a dense bar and plate, it will retain the ambient temperature longer, giving you a much longer time with colder intake temps. You probably will stop flooring the car before a denser interocooler becomes as warm as the incoming charge.
  

 

This can really be seen with Grimmspeed's comparison, those spikes are not good, you want the consistency that's showing from their intercooler. Also notice that the OEM TMIC also would only cool down when you care the least, at the end of the 5-8 second cooldown and not during the WOT run.

 

Those temp spikes could cause detonation that would be really hard to tune out because they would be at inconsistent parts of the map.

 

 

Now about density, there is such a thing as too much based on your application.

In the Autospeed article they talk about why air to water intercooler are better for short burst racing (drag racing) and daily driving and air to air for longer in boost racing, because water takes much longer to heat up, but once it heats up it does take much longer to cool down.

 

With that in mind, one would say, why don't all race cars just run the tube and fin design, well for one they tend to spring leaks (as we know this from our factory LGT intercoolers). The next part is actually the restriction part, bar & plates flow restriction actually helps becase it causes the air to stay longer in the intercooler, letting it cool down more.

 

This is why a good intercoolers have turbolators, while knock offs have smooth fins. Turbolators cause more air restrictions, which causes the air to get trapped in the fins longer and cool down more.

[LatentWagen]

Interesting info. However, our LGT/WRX intercooler is puny compa red to the STi unit. Did they do the same test against an STI unit? That would be more appropriate. I bet the results would also be interesting

[Rhitter]

Interesting info. However, our LGT/WRX intercooler is puny compa red to the STi unit. Did they do the same test against an STI unit? That would be more appropriate. I bet the results would also be interesting

 

There was an autocrosser (I think) who tried to use the GS one (he was sponsored by GS) and had to switch back to the stock STI one, because it didn't work for him.

Here it is - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2513808

 

Basically I wish we could easily get the STI TMIC to fit our cars.

 

M Sprank / Infamous Performance and tuning has said the stock STI one works great and is close to the best TMIC they have tested.

[LatentWagen]

Yup, GS is selling intercoolers. I'm sure they had the resources to test the STI unit the same way. Maybe they did test it. Posting those results probably wouldn't help them sell their parts, though!

[Rhitter]

Yup, GS is selling intercoolers. I'm sure they had the resources to test the STI unit the same way. Maybe they did test it. Posting those results probably wouldn't help them sell their parts, though!

 

I mean they have data showing theirs works -

http://www.grimmspeed.com/top-mount-intercooler-subaru-02-07-wrx-04-16-sti/

 

But, it's of course in a situation that benefits them. In road race / HPDE I think there is something to be said for their intercoolers. However, an FMIC is probably a better choice.

 

Drag and Autocross maybe something that absorbs less heat and sheds heat quicker is better.

 

With a FMIC sitting out in front of the car, I bet you don't have nearly the same "absorb engine heat" problem that a TMIC has, and you probably get more of a benefit overall with a a heavier intercooler.

 

Really Subaru just needs to move to FMICs for their low mounted turbos. I would appreciate that being from CA and all.

[bdfreetuna]

back on topic... CNT (perrin style) TMIC installed along with VF52 and BrenTuning dyno'd for 317 ft-lbs tq and 303 whp.

 

Car drove back on the 1h15m trip great in 90+ degree heat. TMIC did get hot and stayed hot for a while, but I don't have a turbo heat shield on the VF52. Will get one soon.

 

I was hitting 21.5 psi boost and really no comparison to before with my stock TMIC and VF40. Can't wait to see how it drives when it's not hot as hell outside.

 

http://pelland.com/josh/LGT-engine.jpg

[Rhitter]

Did they say anything about how much it sucked to install?

[bdfreetuna]

My impression was that for all intents and purposes it's basically a Perrin in terms of how well it works and how well it fits. I didn't get charged a bunch of extra labor hours or anything so it couldn't have been that bad.

 

I did supply a AVO TB hose and Mr Gasket.

[JmP6889928]

I'm running the same thing. It was a bit more difficult than the OE TMIC but not enough so that I would hesitate to remove it for any reason. I did use socket head bolts on the turbo flange because they fit better.

[bdfreetuna]

No scientific data here, but it was 95+ degrees today and I took the car out for a while anyway.. not lacking power at all, actually just starting to get a feel for the new pro tune and VF52.

 

My car will likely never see a track or be in a situation where one TMIC is really much better than any other. I do plan on getting a heat shield for the turbo as this was recommended by the tuner.

 

But if you're like me and your main reason for upgrading TMIC is just to get something that can stand up to 21psi boost, well so far I wouldn't hesitate to make the same purchase twice. Time will tell but this is the hottest time of year and it's doing it's job.

[Phate]

But if you're like me and your main reason for upgrading TMIC is just to get something that can stand up to 21psi boost, well so far I wouldn't hesitate to make the same purchase twice. Time will tell but this is the hottest time of year and it's doing it's job.

 

This is what I was looking to hear. As long as it isn't crimped together with thin aluminum tabs, and I can trust it to not leak after blasting it with 16-18psi, I'd be happy with it.

[covertrussian]

There was an autocrosser (I think) who tried to use the GS one (he was sponsored by GS) and had to switch back to the stock STI one, because it didn't work for him.

Here it is - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2513808

 

Basically I wish we could easily get the STI TMIC to fit our cars.

 

M Sprank / Infamous Performance and tuning has said the stock STI one works great and is close to the best TMIC they have tested.

 

One thing that's interesting is his IAT number, he doesn't mention if he has an aftermarket one or is using stock MAF one. If his using stock one his IAT numbers are useless (since they are pre-intercooler).

 

Still sucks to lose power like that though

 

/thread jack

[bdfreetuna]

I installed a turbo blanket from Thermal Zero on the VF52 this morning. I noticed the CNT intercooler was getting super hot on these hot days. One time I was almost watching flames come out of the hood bonnet, the heat coming out was so visible and long lasting.

 

Went for a drive today after the blanket and drove hard and I could put my hand on the TMIC afterwards, it was even sort of cool on the driver side (and pretty warm/mildly hot on the turbo side).

 

Huge difference, well worth the $40 on Ebay.

[covertrussian]

Got a link to the one you got? Curious since my 16G could use a blanket/heat shield.

[bdfreetuna]

There are some color options but this is the size I got. Perfect fit, might also fit something a bit bigger.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TD05-VF52-Turbo-Blanket-Turbo-Sock-Heat-Shield-BLACK-High-Temperature-USA-MADE-/121413781542?hash=item1c44d34826:g:fnsAAOSwLqFV94kJ&vxp=mtr

[covertrussian]

Ah nice, that thing is so tiny, but then again the stock turbos have very small turbine housings.

 

I might just try to bend the stock one to work with the 16g, I like metal over fabric that becomes crap with water contact (hood scoop can cause that).

[Hirschman]

There are some color options but this is the size I got. Perfect fit, might also fit something a bit bigger.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TD05-VF52-Turbo-Blanket-Turbo-Sock-Heat-Shield-BLACK-High-Temperature-USA-MADE-/121413781542?hash=item1c44d34826:g:fnsAAOSwLqFV94kJ&vxp=mtr

 

Thanks for the link, been needing a blanket or heat shield since I installed the 16g.

[subysouth]

Thank you much for all the input - especially bdfreetuna with the hands-on data. It looks like a viable option for my purposes.

 

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