Andrew's DiySB Rebuild

[rhino6303]

Looks nice, are the heads getting sanded at all?

Posts 356, 357 and 375.

LH side head (on the right) decked a little less than 0.002" (difficult to measure) using 320 grit sandpaper and a verified[/i ]-flat piece of granite. I haven't re-inspected the head for flatness yet, but it was already acceptably flat so this is mostly just to give the head gaskets a fresh surface to cling to. And we all like to see pretty pics

 

I'm not worrying too much about the fire rings that are still very visible. Much of the original machining marks are also still lightly visible.

 

 

 

LH (on the left this time) and RH side heads after DIY decking. Slightly less than 0.002" removed from each.

I'm very pleased with how well they cleaned up, considering how little material I removed.

 

If your heads are warped I definitely don't recommend this method. From a quality perspective it would work, but it would take hours of careful sanding to get them flat. After an hour of back-and-forth, back-and-forth, back-and-forth... I imagine anyone doing it for that long would be prone to getting sloppy and making mistakes.

 

The RH side was a pain because of the hard coolant line that sits slightly higher than the head/block mating surface, limiting me to only a couple inches of movement on the sandpaper for "machining". That hard line is a real beeyotch and I can't get it to rotate even a little.

 

 

 

How about these apples?

The fire rings are gone, and so are the muscles in my arms. It took about 2 hours of solid sanding; definitely not an enjoyable experience. Highly recommended for the cost-savings though.

 

Tonight I was talking with my wife about maybe rebuilding the turbo and she said "just do it, I don't want it ever blowing up". She's not enjoying this rebuild nearly as much as I am. Maybe that's because there's an engine sitting in the shower and now we have a delightfully fine aluminum dust coating the dining room table.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160722/5b3c332b86a29b037024d2e22027c132.jpg

 

Sent from inner space.

[SBT]

Looks nice, are the heads getting sanded at all?

 

From all appearances, they (the heads) are good to go.

 

Block mating surface, which you may be referring to, will likely look as good.

[M4rked1]

From all appearances, they (the heads) are good to go.

 

Block mating surface, which you may be referring to, will likely look as good.

 

Sorry, I was typing quick and not thinking , you are right , I meant block.

[StkmltS]

From all appearances, they (the heads) are good to go.

 

Block mating surface, which you may be referring to, will likely look as good.

 

Your confidence that I'll choose to do the best thing is causing me to do more work

 

Haha I'm just kidding around, that's exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to get from people. This being my first engine rebuild, it's very helpful having experienced people chime in and nudge me to do the right/best thing.

 

So far my half-moons are still comfortably nestled in the heads. Should I treat that as an act of kindness from God, or should I try to cleanly pry them out and reseal them?

 

Using plastigage these are my measured clearances for the mains with new std size bearings:

Main 1 - 0.0015"

Main 2 - 0.0015"

Main 3 - > 0.001 but < 0.0015"

Main 4 - 0.0015"

Main 5 - 0.001"

 

The FSM specifies 0.0004" to 0.0012" clearance. From what I've read, using 5w-40 (vs the factory recommended 5w-30) means that my slightly larger clearances are acceptable. What's everyone else's opinion? Try to pretend like you'd be spending your own $75, not some random dude on the Internet's money.

 

I'll be checking the rod clearances tonight.

[StkmltS]

I've decided to get my turbo rebuilt even though it doesn't need it.

It's a significant chunk of change, but I need this motor to last many years forever without any significant engine problems.

 

Totally going against that thought... my VF40 will soon become a JMP custom-VF40, and my long-term tune will need to resemble something of a stage 2 setup. I have a catless UP, so I'm only missing a catless DP in order to meet the official "unofficial" stage 2 definition. A DIY version isn't totally out of the picture, but I'd kind of like to leave it for now.

Edited July 25, 2016 by StkmltS

[xt2005bonbon]

Could you go post on this thread the list of bucket sizes you currently have? Cause I am ready to order a couple.

[M4rked1]

Your confidence that I'll choose to do the best thing is causing me to do more work

 

Haha I'm just kidding around, that's exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to get from people. This being my first engine rebuild, it's very helpful having experienced people chime in and nudge me to do the right/best thing.

 

So far my half-moons are still comfortably nestled in the heads. Should I treat that as an act of kindness from God, or should I try to cleanly pry them out and reseal them?

 

Using plastigage these are my measured clearances for the mains with new std size bearings:

Main 1 - 0.0015"

Main 2 - 0.0015"

Main 3 - > 0.001 but < 0.0015"

Main 4 - 0.0015"

Main 5 - 0.001"

 

The FSM specifies 0.0004" to 0.0012" clearance. From what I've read, using 5w-40 (vs the factory recommended 5w-30) means that my slightly larger clearances are acceptable. What's everyone else's opinion? Try to pretend like you'd be spending your own $75, not some random dude on the Internet's money.

 

I'll be checking the rod clearances tonight.

 

so your resolution is .0005"? based on that, I would assume you may be closer to that .0012" than these numbers show. Either way I would run them as is.

 

I would absolutely pull the half moons, mine appeared to be nicely in place, but when I pulled them out there had been oil getting under them. Pulling them was easy I just grabbed the large flat sides with channel locks and wiggled them out. No need to worry about scuffing that surface as it does not seal to anything. Do you have new replacements? Because cleaning them was a bit of a pain.

[StkmltS]

Could you go post on this thread the list of bucket sizes you currently have? Cause I am ready to order a couple.

 

Posted.

We've both been talking about misfires for so long that I'm having trouble differentiating between your problems and mine. At this point your car(s) and mine have melded into one single vehicle and I have to keep referring back to my own misfire thread to know which details are mine and which came from you

[StkmltS]

so your resolution is .0005"? based on that, I would assume you may be closer to that .0012" than these numbers show. Either way I would run them as is.

 

I would absolutely pull the half moons, mine appeared to be nicely in place, but when I pulled them out there had been oil getting under them. Pulling them was easy I just grabbed the large flat sides with channel locks and wiggled them out. No need to worry about scuffing that surface as it does not seal to anything. Do you have new replacements? Because cleaning them was a bit of a pain.

 

The green plastigage scale has markings for 0.001", .0015", .002", and .003". Anything between would just be an educated guess, but a couple of my journals were slightly less than the width for .0015".

 

My only hesitation to pulling the half moons is that they'll be brittle and crack. If they came out fine for you I guess it's worth a shot. I don't have replacements (yet) because I designated them as "wait until the last minute and replace only if needed" items.

[Max Capacity]

The fact that those half moons are dry and brittle, is a good reason to replace them.

 

The dealer may have them in stock.

 

A gather you've looked at all the hoses, and tighten the gas line clamps under the intake...

[heiche]

what? you're not rebuilding the turbo yourself?

[Tehnation]

22121

 

What is your journal code!! I saw you over on my thread

 

You already know where i am going with this. Did you post your journal codes? Going to go over ur pics now!!

[Tehnation]

but being under stock clearance is absolute no bueno!!! Edited July 25, 2016 by Tehnation

[StkmltS]

The fact that those half moons are dry and brittle, is a good reason to replace them.

 

The dealer may have them in stock.

 

A gather you've looked at all the hoses, and tighten the gas line clamps under the intake...

I won't know if they're dry and brittle unless I pull them out, which I guess is your point. Good point.

 

what? you're not rebuilding the turbo yourself?

I know, I'm ashamed and embarrassed

The motor's redline is mine too. Tens of thousands of rpm is definitely over my DIY limit.

 

22121

 

What is your journal code!! I saw you over on my thread

 

You already know where i am going with this. Did you post your journal codes? Going to go over ur pics now!!

My journals are 22222. I'll dig around for your thread and post my info there... or just wait for you to do it for me

 

but being under stock clearance is absolute no bueno!!! And after reading the fsm the journal clearances should vary, with the largest clearance i believe being the center bearing.

I'm slightly over the stock clearance, not under.

[Tehnation]

Crankshaft side clearance:

Standard

0.030 — 0.115 mm (0.0012 — 0.0045 in)

 

5) Inspect individual crankshaft bearings for signs

of flaking, seizure, melting, and wear.

6) Measure the oil clearance on each crankshaft

bearing by means of plastigauge. If the measurement

is not within the specification, replace the defective

bearing with an undersize one, and replace

or recondition the crankshaft as necessary.

 

 

Crankshaft oil clearance:

Standard

0.010 — 0.030 mm (0.0004 — 0.0012 in)

 

your right!! i have a bad memory

[M4rked1]

On DIY turbo rebuilds, a few years ago I was in desperate need of a turbo for my DSM. A friend had a 14b that was burning tons of oil. it was actually so bad that coaked oil was pushing the exhaust shield plate into the turbine wheel, damaging it. I put a new bearing and seal kit in it and reassembled to marks I made and the thing worked great! If you decide to do it, but the kit from g pop shop, not the eBay crap.

[StkmltS]

You're fired!

 

Side clearance is still yet to be ignored, i mean measured.

[birkhoff]

Side clearance is not particularly tight on these engines. I'd be surprised if it wasn't within spec as is. Should be checked though.

 

You will also want to check crank end play since that is a wear area. Target spec is quite wide (12-45 tenths). Mine was ok out of the box.

 

I AM surprised you are getting such uniform measurements on oil clearance with plastigage. I had nothing as good as this on my build. After polishing, my main journals ran from 2.3616 to 2.3620, so a variation of 4 tenths already, before accounting for oval in the bores.

 

How many times did you measure? Did you try the crank in different positions? If it is repeatable, I'd just go with it.

 

Clearance (calculated) on my mains ended up at 12, 13, 14, 16, 14 (#1-5) in tenths. That was with swapped half shells. I have no problem with hot idle oil pressure even though all but one of these are over spec. And, I used the original 10mm pump, from the donor block.

 

OTOH, if these numbers are correct, an undersize half shell in every journal would pull you down 4 tenths in each position, if you do want to run stock clearance.

Edited July 26, 2016 by birkhoff

[M4rked1]

It's odd to see somebody talking in mils outside of work..

 

Birkoff, wouldn't he need slightly oversized bearings to bring him into spec?

[StkmltS]

My bucket list per bonbon's request:

LHS

501, 501 (ground), 498, 498 (ground), 497, 496, 496, 495

RHS

507, 506, 506, 504, 503, 503, 501, 500

[birkhoff]

Birkoff, wouldn't he need slightly oversized bearings to bring him into spec?

 

You use two sets. One STD and one undersize by 0.025mm. They are available. That translates to a 4 tenths thicker shell for each bearing half. When you need to tighten up clearance in one or more bores, you use one STD and one undersize shell. Or both undersize if it is really bad. I had to do that on one journal.

 

However, if the OP can get a consistent measurement of 12 -15 say, by plastigage and interpolation, it is probably not worth the hassle. A little more clearance didn't hurt me. Without the half shell swap, I would have been in the 20's on the worst journal and that just seemed too much.

[M4rked1]

I had the terminology backwards, thanks for the refresher. Although I've never used two different sized bearings on one journal. That doesn't make the crank off center?

[Tehnation]

wait, why would u use 2 different sizes on the same journal? This has been confusing me for a while. I think i'm missing something.

[birkhoff]

To go half way between STD and first undersized. Best to put them all on the same side. Off centre? Yes by some fraction of the oil film thickness!

[StkmltS]

I had the terminology backwards, thanks for the refresher. Although I've never used two different sized bearings on one journal. That doesn't make the crank off center?

 

wait, why would u use 2 different sizes on the same journal? This has been confusing me for a while. I think i'm missing something.

 

It's sounds like a terrible idea at first, but apparently it's a common enough thing that (some) bearing manufacturers specifically mention that it's totally acceptable.

 

King's statement here.

I tried to find something similar for ACL but their website is still set on "1997 mode" and it doesn't have a very good FAQ page.

 

Compare King's website to ACL's website and tell me which company you want to trust more.