6th Gen Tuning Thread

[MrCobbs]

I talked with Edward last week and he had me a new tune within an hour.

Who is Edward? A different tuner?

 

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[securityguy]

Can someone just take a minute to post some DETAIL around the tune like who? contact number or email? cost? what changes are you seeing in performance? This thread is cryptic so let's get right to the chase for those of us interested in getting more detail and purchasing a tune. Thanks!

[Milkywitness]

Can someone just take a minute to post some DETAIL around the tune like who? contact number or email? cost? what changes are you seeing in performance? This thread is cryptic so let's get right to the chase for those of us interested in getting more detail and purchasing a tune. Thanks!

 

You got it my dude. It is cryptic and people never really give full details in this forum for anything and always tell you just to find it yourself.

 

To get the tune, PM me and I can give you the guys info who will Tune you. I went through Matt at ThrottleHappy but apparently some guy here named XRT I think does tunes and is in this forum, but in my opinion Matt at TH has a more stable and refined tune. So you get the info for Matt that I or someone else gives you (a user here gave me the info when I inquired such as you are). You message him on FB and or email him, honestly its best to try all means of communication with Matt. He replies slow for various reasons, that's just in his nature but he's an awesome guy. Once you get a hold of him and to make sure he is responsive and able to tune, you will need to go to http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&product_id=17&vmcchk=1&Itemid=53 and buy this for $170. Then you need to download ECUFlash which you can find on that website at the top under Downloads. Make sure you have a laptop, I used one with Windows and you download ECUFlash to the laptop. When you get your tactrix cable email talk to Matt and he will email you some instructions on how to download your stock tune using that cable and the software. You basically plug the thing into your car and your laptop and download the tune (He will give detailed instructions, it's pretty easy). Once you get your stock tune files, you email them to Matt and he will send you a couple tune options and a couple other files that you put in that program and upload into your car. He will then get your feedback on the tunes he sent you and refine it a couple more times till your tune fits your needs such as if you want touchy throttle response or not, etc. He will ask you to pay him before he gives you the final good tune file, just paypal him I think it was like $175 USD or so. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that price. So you pay him and he emails you one of the final tune files, and you upload that to your car and you're set. That's the basic gist of it, but when you upload a new tune to the car you need to do a 'fuzzy reset' which is disconnect the negative battery terminal, step on the brake and drain the remaining electricity and then turn the car to On (this doesnt mean turn the car all the way on, it means into the On position) off then on off again, I forget how many times but I think Tigger made a thread on it, and that resets your ECU so it can learn your new tune then you drive for 20 minutes kinda regular then 10 minutes spirited. Sorry for the massive wall of text, PM me if you want some more details and questions!! I tried to write up the important stuff.

 

As for my personal view on the changes, I had my throttle response changed to VERY touchy. At the faintest press of the pedal my car goes. I feel more low end torque, RPM's seem to ram up more when you gas it, it seems way more zippy in the city. I am driving a 2.5i, the 3.6R guys I think see even better of a response from the tune.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Milkywitness

[securityguy]

Thanks to both Milkywitness and c3156...now this is the detail that should have been posted eons ago...finally folks willing to share quality information. This is how a forum is supposed to be!

[Brisvegas]

Thanks to both Milkywitness and c3156...now this is the detail that should have been posted eons ago...finally folks willing to share quality information. This is how a forum is supposed to be!

 

I agree with your comments here regarding both member's informative posts.

 

c3156 in his excellent post mentioned the unfortunate agro that went on during the previous discussion on this topic, and I think that was to the detriment of others who might have wanted to ask questions, and that probably was also the reason that the "sharing of quality information" fell by the wayside.

 

I'm all for spirited discussions between people with definite views, but nobody benefits from aggressive pissing contests.

[15LegacyRyan]

Read the first few pages and there's a full write up with numbers back it up.

 

 

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[securityguy]

I have spoken to Edward on several occasions and will use him for my tune. Extremely responsive and you can't beat that level of customer service!

[XT-sub]

... Previously, I felt the car was constantly decelerating every time I took my foot off the gas, which to me seems stupid and a waste of energy. Now when I take my foot off the gas, the car coasts like I am in neutral like a manual. ...

 

I’m confused with that comment. On my Australian spec 2016 Liberty 3.6R, when I take my foot off the throttle the vehicle has a certain amount of engine braking exactly like a manual transmission vehicle when in gear, which is good IMO. The vehicle can be controlled by the throttle input/lift-off like a manual transmission vehicle.

 

The older generation non-CVT stepped auto transmissions used to coast like a manual transmission in neutral (out of gear) when the throttle was lifted, which was bad IMO. They had none or very little engine braking.

 

Are you saying your Legacy now coasts like throwing a manual transmission into neutral when taking your foot off the throttle or is it doing something different?

[XT-sub]

Thanks for clarifying that c3156. I had noticed there was a minor difference in engine braking between our SJ Foz XT & the 3.6 Liberty (a bit less on the XT), but I prefer the way the Liberty slightly engine brakes on throttle lift-off. On winding downhill mountain roads this works nicely. But maybe there is a difference between the Australian spec model & the USDM model in this area (ignoring the SI-Drive differences).

 

Good to see you are happy with your tune.

[surmiser]

I’m done with engine tuning, and have wanted to post an update here to tie up loose ends, but have been wary of touching this controversial thread. So much aggro. I figure now that this volcano’s lain dormant for months, it should be safe to poke, right? Famous last words, I know…

 

Anyway, here’s a dyno graph superimposing my most recent dyno run (July 2017; green line) with an earlier one in January 2017 (red line) and my very first one in October 2016 (blue line). Same dyno, same ramp rate, same ambient temperature/humidity:

 

 

Since the CVT shifts at just over 6k rpm, ignore the portions above the 6.1k rpm mark.

 

So what we’ve got here is a stock baseline of 120whp (blue line), aftermarket intake + ECU tune yielding 124 whp (red line), and aftermarket intake + axleback exhaust + ECU tune yielding 138whp (green line).

 

The red and green lines are different versions of a road-tuned ECU reflash by the same tuner (Matt Mcleod aka Throttlehappy).

 

If we assume that my 2.5 engine does indeed make 175hp at the crank in stock trim, then the 120whp roughly translates to a 30% drivetrain loss. If we apply that to my latest 138whp run, that extrapolates to an estimated 200hp at the crank.

 

Regardless of whether you take the dyno measurements at the wheel, or my estimates at the crank, it works out to a 15% power gain.

 

Is that worth the time, effort and money? That’s a matter of opinion but if numbers are all you’re after, then perhaps not. However, the hp numbers come with a similar increase in overall torque, and don’t measure faster/crisper CVT shifting and the big boost in everyday drivability and enjoyment - all of that makes an ECU tune, at the very least, a no brainer from my perspective. If you look at my numbers pre-and-post exhaust mod, it’s clear that axleback exhausts do in fact give a worthwhile power boost with a tune. Conversely, it’s also clear that even with a tune, an aftermarket intake alone yields negligible power gains.

 

For those who haven’t seen my earlier posts in this thread, my relevant mods are an aFe Power Takeda intake and Kakimoto ClassKR axleback exhaust.

 

And before someone asks me again why on earth someone would want to mod a 2.5 instead of buying a 3.6 - a big reason is that the 2.5 is the only engine available in many markets, including Japan. I couldn’t have bought a 3.6 even if I wanted to.

 

Alright, that’s a wrap, folks.

 

I don't have up-to-date logs worth sharing, but I do have a dyno run. Blue is the TH tune. Red is stock, done a few months ago. Weather was hotter for the newer run, but I used the same fuel for both. Takeda intake, stock exhaust:

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170108/624e20ff5e4adf113601fbe7720ac8d2.jpg

 

Unspectacular dyno results. Peak HP gain of only 5 or so, but the gains are quite consistent throughout the rev range. Dyno does show a slight dip below 3,760 rpm even though my butt doesn't feel it. Then again, the dyno numbers don't reflect the sheer drivability of the tune, with linear power delivery and sharper CVT behaviour. No bragging rights but the tune works where I need it - on the road.

 

Actually, Matt custom-tuned my car in person, physically sitting next to me while I drove on the road, laptop plugged in. Log, stop, engine off, flash a new tune, engine on, move, log, rinse and repeat. Real-time logging reinforced by the actual feel of the car accelerating, and the sound of my engine. He didn't just tweak performance parameters. He adjusted brake pressure, cooling system kick-in point, etc.

 

It's true that Matt doesn't travel to the US, and therefore relies purely on remote tunes for US cars, which begin with a template base tune that is then tweaked as necessary.

 

However, Matt does fly to Asia (I'm a lot nearer to him), so folks here can either wait for him to come and then head straight for a road tune, or do what I did, which is start with a remote tune (Tactrix), and then refine it on the road when he's in town. The in-person road tune was a key reason I chose Matt over Ed, even though I was extremely impressed with Ed's communication and attitude.

 

For spirited driving, I prefer a gearbox that drops gears (downshifts) when I brake hard into a turn, so that I'm already in the power band whenever I get back on the throttle. BMW autos did this in sports mode as far back as the early 90s and I loved it. In normal driving, of course, it's more efficient to upshift (I assume this is what you meant by "drop gears/revs") into the turn, and only downshift upon throttle input.

 

As for flipping to manual, I find shifts crisper in auto mode and therefore prefer to use the paddles in auto mode. Even better that S# lets me dispense with paddles most of the time.

[Oltzer]

Anyone know how i can find the correct definition xml file for my 2015 3.6R I was thinking of eventually tuning it but right now was just trying to pull the existing image to look at and compare against the Subaru updates - I was able to connect my tatrix dongle and pull a file using the subarubrz 2013+ setting. It reports unknown rom image however in ecuflash. My current Cal ID is coming up as DB4GA01D which matches with what it should be after the Battery charging update the dealer did recently.

[Perscitus]

You will want to start with a definition for a previous CALID for the same market/model year 6th gen and then fine tune the memory addresses and column/row offset metadata if any of the table defs look off in terms of data they display. Best to have a well or semi well defined previous ROM to compare against.

 

Memory addresses tend to change from OE reflash to reflash and certainly from model year to year, even the same gen. So I highly doubt the latest updated charging logic ROMs have been defined.

 

Start with any defined USDM 2015 Legacy or Outback 3.6R, ideally for a CALID not too far behind the latest that you have.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Perscitus

[Oltzer]

You will want to start with a definition for a previous CALID for the same market/model year 6th gen and then fine tune the memory addresses and column/row offset metadata if any of the table defs look off in terms of data they display. Best to have a well or semi well defined previous ROM to compare against.

 

Memory addresses tend to change from OE reflash to reflash and certainly from model year to year, even the same gen. So I highly doubt the latest updated charging logic ROMs have been defined.

 

Start with any defined USDM 2015 Legacy or Outback 3.6R, ideally for a CALID not too far behind the latest that you have.

 

Thanks for the tip; I was thinking along those lines but the latest bundled definitions don’t seem to include any 2015s and I’ve been looking around on the rom raider forums and git hub. Just wondering if things stalled on the newer models. I have a 2015 2.5 forester too and haven’t seen a definition for it either. I guess I’ll keep looking I was just thinking that since others have tuned there 6 gen here after pulling via ecuflash there must be a definition somewhere.

[Perscitus]

You won't find them there, sadly. RR has dried up, first because main contributors went MIA, were scooped up by CoBB or Ecutek or just moved on from the thankless work that goes into reverse-engineering the ROMs, coming up with table definitions and keeping the RR software alive.

 

Everyone who makes definitions for the Hitachi-based ECUs seems to keep the definitions to themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised if they use SubaruEdit over RR/EcuFlash and just let the end-users reflash the ROMs using EcuFlash (given the ease of use and setup).

 

Both Ed and Matt must have whatever they've defined for 2015-2018s (2.5is and 3.6Rs) and I haven't seen any of that in circulation.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Perscitus

[Perscitus]

Open call to any of you who are tuned by either Ed or Matt

or anyone actually so long as your Subaru Legacy/Outback is a 2015-2018.

 

Could you please share the ROM definitions you are using to Flash these to the car if you are using EcuFlash to do so?

 

I AM NOT looking or interested in your tunes, just the definitions that allow you to flash these newer Hitachi ECUs on the 6th gen Legacy 2.5i and 3.6R as well as the 5th gen Outbacks.

 

Its very likely the definitions you have as end-users are skeleton/basic ones with few defined tables, but thats fine - I dont need them to be complete or what Ed or Matt are using, just a confirm that you are able to flash any non OE tunes to the ECUs using the definitions you have.

 

Please post any such definitions here. You can find them in your EcuFlash definitions/metadata folders. Should be XML.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Perscitus

[viper803]

So this morning I thought "I'll check the forums for excessive engine braking" - found a thread - linked to this thread - and I read through all 36 glorious pages. Is this tuning still a thing? I'm a computer nerd but no experience with car tuning. I see something about missing files.

 

Trying to work out if this has become common knowledge or just isn't done anymore because this thread certainly is quiet.

[Perscitus]

Egos, ignorance and politics got the better of this thread.

 

t00ning Hitachi-based Subarus (for better or worse) is well alive, just search for what you need beyond this forum

- easy to locate and contact who you need, plenty of ppl and firms out there happy to help you part with your time and money.

 

On the other hand - in this day and age, it might be best to just leave these econoboxes alone

and keep them as stock as possible. Should help with trade ups to Ascents and upcoming 7th gen.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Perscitus

[viper803]

Well said. Now that the initial excitement has worn off and I'm less horny for the mod the reality of what was said here is sinking in. At the moment, for me, the potential gains are just not worth the risk or frustration.

[fastcar123]

Egos, ignorance and politics got the better of this thread.

 

t00ning Hitachi-based Subarus (for better or worse) is well alive, just search for what you need beyond this forum

- easy to locate and contact who you need, plenty of ppl and firms out there happy to help you part with your time and money.

 

On the other hand - in this day and age, it might be best to just leave these econoboxes alone

and keep them as stock as possible. Should help with trade ups to Ascents and upcoming 7th gen.

 

 

Ok I know what you might say to this but I want to ask anyway.

 

I have read a portion of this post. I have flashed my ecu on my last car. So I have some experience in this.

 

However for this specific vehicle (2015 legacy 2.5) I don't know where to start. You say to search outside of this forum. But just really don't know where to start.

 

Any advice to get started?

Places to go? People to talk to?

[Perscitus]

RomRaider forum, any place that mentions your ECUID, CID/CALID, members on here who have a 6th gen FBxx and talked about an XRT (Ed) or ThrottleHappy (Matt) t00n or have it listed in their signatures.

[Kay2DaA]

Sooo...anyone know where i can get the USB cable that connects with the tactrix openport 2.0? The tactrix doesnt have it in stock.

 

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[hkshooter]

Egos, ignorance and politics got the better of this thread.

 

t00ning Hitachi-based Subarus (for better or worse) is well alive, just search for what you need beyond this forum

- easy to locate and contact who you need, plenty of ppl and firms out there happy to help you part with your time and money.

 

On the other hand - in this day and age, it might be best to just leave these econoboxes alone

and keep them as stock as possible. Should help with trade ups to Ascents and upcoming 7th gen.

Agreed.

 

I periodically check this thread and look the forums over on the hunt for potential CVT or engine failures that may be linked to home garage (or pro) tuning. I'm very curious.

Subaru protects the CVT with conservative tuning, that's obvious. Defeating it is asking for trouble in my opinion.

 

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[Timothy.B]

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2628737 he's pushing some power on the CVT and it's been surviving.

[Perscitus]

Not just surviving Timmy... thriving. This is my brother's car.

I have overseen all modifications and t00ning for the past 5 years..

 

It was the first HTCVT t00ned in the US in early 2014 (April or so) and one of the first CVT WRXs at Stage II, late 2014 if I recall.

 

The car is a daily driver, runs perfect and has great transmission engagement, surprisingly good torque output thanks to continuous boost... and performs far beyond a stock JDM Levorq GT-S and a JDM S4 (test drove both in Japan).

[ehsnils]

Sooo...anyone know where i can get the USB cable that connects with the tactrix openport 2.0? The tactrix doesnt have it in stock.

 

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It's a plain vanilla mini-USB connector, just go to any well-stocked computer shop and get one.