Starks Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I feel pretty responsible for getting everyone into this group buy in the first place since I am the one that originally asked Nameless to consider it for us, but I am also truly disappointed with Nameless for changing the design of the dump pipe from the S bend they had before to the design of the GB DP. I was uncomfortable about the change, but was under the impression that they had hard evidence that the change would not affect performance. It was to save a little cost of production on their end, but it looks like it resulted in a piece of artwork that's useless for it's intended purpose. I have my GB downpipe, and I am also picking up Swannee's which was one of the original 3 or 4 that Nameless produced with their original S bend dump pipe design. I plan to install the GB DP this summer and get tuned. If I encounter overboost, I will swap out the DP's to Swannee's and try again. If I get no overboost, we know that the change of design is the culprit. I need everyone here to document everything in this thread. Pics, data, info etc. I will be contacting Nameless shortly to discuss the situation with them and direct them to this thread. Don't feel bad GT. I learned and as I'm sure everyone here knows most of the cost of pieces like these is the cost of development. The design, and testing to make sure the parts perform like they're supposed to on top of having quality craftsmanship. They were supposed to have put the effort into making a piece that works effectively with the car, modded or not. And if there was a potential problem with other parts is their job to inform their customers. Otherwise what they did was take advantage of their customers. It seems they didn't do suffecient R&D. They whipped up something that doesn't work as intended which is what any exhaust garage could have done. That's what I'm disappointed with. So far they're like 1/5? Either their design is flawed or craftsmanship suffered on a certain point on the DP. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Sm00veM00ve, interesting you had the same problem I had originally with the OEM studs. I wasn't expecting that. So did they cut off the entire piece that extends towards the turbine so it is flush with the flange? Curious to see what happens next time you go back. For reference, I wacked mine with a hammer to make space. The pipe is much larger than the turbine opening so there is plenty of room (i.e. it won't overlap the turbine opening). So I know I'm past this issue, however I still see more boost than I should (~17 lbs with 0% wgdc). My money is on that bypass being the problem. I'm sort of at a loss for what to do next with my car. I could go get it tuned as is and it might be fine this time of year. But I'm worried when it gets colder or if I'm in the wrong gear at the wrong RPM and I mash the throttle it could still overboost. I'd kinda like to wait until Nameless steps in (if there is sufficient proof of a design flaw) and see how they'd like to handle the situation before I do anything else but I'm getting impatient. I've been driving with a limp tune since...November? Contemplating putting my stocker back on. That way if Nameless ever offers a buy-back or repair I'll easily be able to send it right out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBPeik Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I am just going off what I saw of Swannee's DP when I did the swap. It looks much better designed than the GB ones. I have no idea why they changed it, but looks like it might have caused some issues. My someday I will be done with it thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 ...I have no idea why they changed it... To keep their materials and fabrication costs down, plain and simple, they even admitted that without testing it and said "oh, it will be fine". I would have gladly paid $50 or $100 more to get a part that was head and shoulders above the rest, now it's just costing everyone hundreds of dollars and might be a complete waste. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Shouldn't the waste gate have more pressure than the turbine outlet? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sm00veM00ve Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Sm00veM00ve, interesting you had the same problem I had originally with the OEM studs. I wasn't expecting that. So did they cut off the entire piece that extends towards the turbine so it is flush with the flange? Curious to see what happens next time you go back. For reference, I wacked mine with a hammer to make space. The pipe is much larger than the turbine opening so there is plenty of room (i.e. it won't overlap the turbine opening). So I know I'm past this issue, however I still see more boost than I should (~17 lbs with 0% wgdc). My money is on that bypass being the problem. I'm sort of at a loss for what to do next with my car. I could go get it tuned as is and it might be fine this time of year. But I'm worried when it gets colder or if I'm in the wrong gear at the wrong RPM and I mash the throttle it could still overboost. I'd kinda like to wait until Nameless steps in (if there is sufficient proof of a design flaw) and see how they'd like to handle the situation before I do anything else but I'm getting impatient. I've been driving with a limp tune since...November? Contemplating putting my stocker back on. That way if Nameless ever offers a buy-back or repair I'll easily be able to send it right out. Yeah I think their plan was to make it flush with everything else, that's what I was suggesting and they were thinking the same. Yeah man same here haha I'll keep everyone updated. My tuner won't let me take the car until the overboost is completely solved so hoping that theres a cancellation soon to see if it's all good or not, then I'll be monitoring it on the AP/Boost gauge. Yeah if the extra metal proves to be the problem, I'd hope they could address the problem with everyone elses DP, I'm sure as hell not taking it off again haha was such a pain to get on :L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haruichi808 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 I had the same issue as smoov when I tuned last month I hit 24psi and 395tq so he let off and tuner said can't control boost , I'm using oem studs and there pretty much no wiggle room to push the dp over away from the wastage, so I changed to a invidia catless dp and on a etune till I can put in back on the dyno, I'm very sad the nameless didn't work, with the current dp n etune it pulls smoothly with no spike, I tried 2nd,and 3rd gear and hits 17psi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I had an idea just now to test the theory of the wastegate pipe being interfered with by the exhaust flow. If anyone has the time or inclination, I am at work or I would gladly do it myself. Run a leafblower through the turbine outlet with some kind of either propeller or just a piece of paper to show airflow on the wastegate pipe that should tell us if there is any pressure being created by the exhaust in the wastegate pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 I may have found the nail in the coffin for this endeavor. The place I've been going to for tuning is no more. Just found out the owner/tuner took a job with Cobb in TX. There are other places a similar distance but I have the initial start up costs all over again. Not sure how I feel about etunes. Looks like I may go back to the OEM dp and put an old tune back on. Keep her stage 1. Sad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Might as well make lamps out of these. What are we at like a 50% success rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Might as well make lamps out of these. What are we at like a 50% success rate? The problem is there is not a lot of consistency in the installations. That isn't helping matters. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Well I just got my rec bov yesterday. Another step done You guys want to crowd fund me for a Cobb and tune so I can give it a go? Lol Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Edited May 21, 2016 by Starks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 So I did my own experiment from above. Made a short video, and clearly the turbine is pulling air through the waste gate port. So IMO the culprit here is going to end up being the waste gate, I think it is just too small for increased pressure from the dp. I do plan on going ahead with my install later this summer hopefully and I will be sure to find a way to port the waste gate. https://youtu.be/wd88nMyTYGc Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2baru Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Its been long known that porting the turbo/wastegate helps eliminate some of the over boost issues other have had before this unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Its been long known that porting the turbo/wastegate helps eliminate some of the over boost issues other have had before this unit. Agreed, I just don't understand blaming the DP as the cause, when clearly there is a restriction with the turbine housing/wastegate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 So I did my own experiment from above. Made a short video, and clearly the turbine is pulling air through the waste gate port. So IMO the culprit here is going to end up being the waste gate, I think it is just too small for increased pressure from the dp. I do plan on going ahead with my install later this summer hopefully and I will be sure to find a way to port the waste gate. https://youtu.be/wd88nMyTYGc Your test shows there is some negative pressure there but the question is, is it as much as with the original style DP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Negative pressure or no pressure, the result should be the same as long as there is nothing blocking the release of pressure from the wastegate. Remember, Hariuchi (sp.) ended up using a invidia dp, which would have no pull on it either or at least minimal, and he is claiming no overboost. I think the differences we have seen in installs is just as much about manufacturing differences in the exhaust housing as anything and I believe this is what Fahr-side was telling us as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarang Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 The problem is there is not a lot of consistency in the installations. That isn't helping matters. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk True that. It's odd for me to watch the others with trouble since mine has been fine. It makes sense to me that the design might flow too well, and that introducing a restriction could help to remedy overboost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matts_pats Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 so how many people are using and satisfied with this dp? and how many sold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 so how many people are using and satisfied with this dp? and how many sold? Gteaser would know offhand since he orchestrated the GB, at least how many were purchased. But i believe there have been 3 successful installs, maybe 4 if you count swannee but his was the original design. I counted 22 paid in full with original GB. AFaik there have been three unsuccessful installs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) That's pretty much right. Fischbach was the original car the DP was designed on. Someone else bought one, and then Swannee too, so those are the 3 original design downpipe that I know of. Then 22 or 23 sold with the GB of the revised simplified design. I am now officially in possession of Swannee's DP. And our boy is now officially a married man. Edited May 22, 2016 by GTEASER GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesedil Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 So, to distill our current understanding down to something that is as simple as possible: we're back to the current theorized solution is simply porting the wastegate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Most likely, porting is the answer. And probably as a proactive measure check and clearance the area by the waste gate flapper as necessary. There is room to hammer the pipe flat a bit to ensure it doesn't touch the flapper. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Edited May 22, 2016 by FLlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I know it probably only be a handful, but has porting been successfully proven to eliminate all concern of over boost? Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal8788 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) I know it probably only be a handful, but has porting been successfully proven to eliminate all concern of over boost? Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Not sure on the stock turbo but I know in the case of my old turbo (a BNR 20G), it was ported and successfully eliminated my overboost, but on Sm00veM00ve's setup, he still had an issue. The effectiveness of the porting is a bit subjective as some jobs may be done 'better' than others. Edited May 23, 2016 by jackal8788 VF54 to 20G to VF54 to 18G build thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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