Dispatch20 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I just picked up a 3rd gen Legacy sedan off EBay. There is a noise from the timing belt area (I think) that sounds like the tensioner isn't working right. Kind of sounds like piston slap but in the timing cover. Anyways, a guy will swap my timing belt, water pump, cam seals, idlers, tensioner for $200 labor and I provide the parts. Knowing what you went through, in hindsight, would you pay the $200 or would you still do it yourself for the first time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 i remember the stress of my first time still, not knowing if you got everything right and all that. its worth the knowledge and feeling of satisfaction to me. people that dont enjoy working on vehicles would likely rather pay the 200 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 27, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted August 27, 2015 I just picked up a 3rd gen Legacy sedan off EBay. There is a noise from the timing belt area (I think) that sounds like the tensioner isn't working right. Kind of sounds like piston slap but in the timing cover. Anyways, a guy will swap my timing belt, water pump, cam seals, idlers, tensioner for $200 labor and I provide the parts. Knowing what you went through, in hindsight, would you pay the $200 or would you still do it yourself for the first time? i remember the stress of my first time still, not knowing if you got everything right and all that. its worth the knowledge and feeling of satisfaction to me. people that dont enjoy working on vehicles would likely rather pay the 200 bucks. I agree with twisty. $200 sounds like a very fair price to do the job, but that's not really why I bought this car. I bought it to learn on, and a $700 car was certainly more comfortable to learn on than my modded OBXT that I would really prefer not to screw up I would do it again over paying someone $200, but if it was my daily and I needed it done on a deadline I'd probably just pay the $200 and call it good. It's not a particularly hard job. If you want help while doing it it's certainly available here. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 27, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted August 27, 2015 Also, I fixed the speedometer yesterday. Busted speed sensor at the end of the cable. Replaced for $12, nice! "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thanks for the perspective, guys! I think I'll give it a shot since it's my backup car. I've read a few great DIY threads on the timing belt change. I would like to learn how to do it. BMB - did you end up needing the waterpump seal? (p/n 21116AA010)? It seems like most people just transfer the old one over. It didn't seem like it was a seal that kept the coolant in. Also, did you debate using an OE waterpump instead of the Gates one? I've read a lot of bad reviews on the Gates waterpumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 27, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted August 27, 2015 I used the gates waterpump with an OEM seal. The seal was similar to the one that came with the gates kit, thin metal gasket. I imagine it is definitely a seal to keep coolant in, not sure why it would exist otherwise. I think some folks even use a bit of RTV there--I did not. There is an argument to using an OEM WP, for my application I didn't debate it at all. For this car "good enough" is gonna be good enough. Hopefully the pump has no issues. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I used the gates waterpump with an OEM seal. The seal was similar to the one that came with the gates kit, thin metal gasket. I imagine it is definitely a seal to keep coolant in, not sure why it would exist otherwise. I think some folks even use a bit of RTV there--I did not. There is an argument to using an OEM WP, for my application I didn't debate it at all. For this car "good enough" is gonna be good enough. Hopefully the pump has no issues. There are two gaskets/seals you have listed for the waterpump. One is the thin metal round'ish gasket that presses against the block around the pump and it's included in the Gates TCKWP254 kit. The other is a thick L-shaped rubber one (p/n 21116AA010). There is a picture of it here: http://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru__LegacyLS-Sedan/SEALING-WATER-PUMP/49230998/21116AA010.html The reason I asked is because somebody at nastysock said it wasn't necessary for keeping pressurized coolant contained inside the pump: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2650857 I can replace it for cheap with an OEM gasket, but if it just helps keep dirt out of some area I'd rather not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 27, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted August 27, 2015 Oh, that. Yeah I think it's more or a cushion between the pump and the block than anything else if i recall. I don't think you need to worry about it. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 A few questions, if you don't mind: For seal replacement, did you loosen the cam pulley bolts prior to removing the timing belt? Or did you somehow lock the cams and then remove the cam pulley bolts? Any issues getting your cam bolts out? You 're 2.2L probably had hex head cam bolts instead of the newer allen key bolts that always strip. I have no idea what style cam bolt I'll find in my '04 SOHC. Did you use any tools to remove the crank & cam seals to prevent marring the camshaft and/or block sealing surface? Or just screwdrivers and a dental pick? And lastly, did you just use motor oil to lube the crank/cam seal surfaces before install, or some type of heavier grease or sealant? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 28, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted August 28, 2015 I used a spanner wrench to hold the cam gears in place and loosened the bolts. Timing belt was off. I did have hex bolts, very nice. Do yourself a favor and buy an actual seal puller. A cheap one will do or lisle makes a nice adjustable one--still pretty cheap. Don't bother with screwdriver / dental pick--that's the hard way of doing it for sure and has the potential for causing damage. I just used some motor oil. Your not really lubing a moving part, just making sure the seal doesn't roll up on itself or bind up somehow. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I used a spanner wrench to hold the cam gears in place and loosened the bolts. Timing belt was off. I did have hex bolts, very nice. Do yourself a favor and buy an actual seal puller. A cheap one will do or lisle makes a nice adjustable one--still pretty cheap. Don't bother with screwdriver / dental pick--that's the hard way of doing it for sure and has the potential for causing damage. I just used some motor oil. Your not really lubing a moving part, just making sure the seal doesn't roll up on itself or bind up somehow. For the spanner wrench, did you use a variable pin style? Or the actual Subaru tool? Or some spanner wrench that just happened to just fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 28, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted August 28, 2015 Variable one that a buddy loaned me. One of the arms was on a pivot and you could change out the pins if needed but I didn't need to. Important note: my cam gears are metal. If yours are plastic or something the spanner might not work? "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Important note: my cam gears are metal. If yours are plastic or something the spanner might not work? I took my covers off today and was pleased to see metal cam gears and hex head cam bolts! The plastic gears may be a DOHC thing. What technique did you use for the crank pulley bolt? Borrow a friend/spouse and toss it in 5th gear with the brakes on? Or use the starter? Something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 30, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2015 Nice. For a manual, yes 5th gear and have someone hold the brakes if you can. Mine is an auto. So remove inspection cover and jam a screwdriver or prybar in the flywheel or whatever it is. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 that works on 5mt as well, i did the same when i fixed my TB a month ago to get the flywheel bolts off. no real torque on those tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 My breaker bar (plus 3lb sledge hitting it) wasn't long enough to get the crank bolt off. Instead, I removed the radiator, moved the condenser out of the way, and used an impact gun. No biggie since all the coolant was drained to prep for the water pump replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 yeah ive done that as well. but i have a 24" breaker, and a 4 foot pipe that makes pretty much any bolt spin. or break, sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted September 1, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted September 1, 2015 Re-insured it yesterday and printed up a VA Trip Permit this morning so I can drive the car for a few days. Drove it to work this morning with no real issues. A bit of a shudder sometimes when turning the wheel and taking off from a stop (power steering bleeding itself?) and a bit of a higher pitched whine that seems to develop as speed increases. The whine is not 100% consistent though. Has me a bit worried that it might be a trans or diff issue as I bought the car with one mismatched tire (215 instead of 205 or something like that). "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I hope your fixer upper is being more kind to you than mine. I've done timing belt, idlers, tensioner, water pump, thermostat, 2 front wheel bearings, 2 front ball joints, steering rack bellow, spark plugs / wires, and valve cover gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted September 15, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2015 I hope your fixer upper is being more kind to you than mine. I've done timing belt, idlers, tensioner, water pump, thermostat, 2 front wheel bearings, 2 front ball joints, steering rack bellow, spark plugs / wires, and valve cover gasket. Well, I haven't really driven it. It's safety inspected and emissions inspected and I have stickers now, but it has a little power steering leak. Just need a couple of crush washers. I've only done an axle, timing components / water pump, and a tie rod bellows. With mine, I could go hog wild if I wanted--new rack and pinion, reseal oil / trans pans, VCGs--but not right now. I'm just gonna drive it a bit and figure out what actually NEEDS to be replaced. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dispatch20 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 You have good self control. I can't help but to fix everything that is questionable! Regardless, I am enjoying learning new things on a simple car, so you and Twisty have been a good influence on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted September 15, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2015 I have zero self control. But in this case I don't have any time at the moment, lol. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJMC Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Do a brembo swap on it. I think I have an extra pair of fronts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted September 23, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted September 23, 2015 I need to get this dang power steering leak fixed, but cannot find the part number I need. There's a U-shaped double crush washer for the banjo bolt that goes into the pump. I think it's the exit line. Anyone know the p/n for that thing? "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted September 23, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted September 23, 2015 Of course now I find it. Looks like it's this: 34621AC020 "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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