BMB's '97 Outback Sport 2.2L

[BarManBean]

I feel like I've posted a similar thread before, but I can't find it...maybe just my imagination...

 

I'm going to look at a '97 outback sport tonight. Anything in particular to look out for? I know it needs some work for sure, but hoping I can fix it up a bit and have a nice driver for nasty weather or when my OBXT is down for maintenance.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Parts Ordered:

OEM Cam seals (2), 806732150

OEM Crank seal, 806733030

OEM waterpump gasket, 21114AA051

OEM waterpump seal, 21116AA010

OEM thermostat gasket, 21236AA010

OEM thermostat, 21200AA072

OEM axle nuts (2), 28044AA001

Front Axle (Carquest)

Gates upper (21851)and lower radiator (20473) hoses

Gates power steering pump rebuilt kit (348414)

Gates TCKWP254 Timing Kit

Front parking lamp assmblies, left/right

 

 

 

 

List of crap I need, for my own reference/notes:

Oil pump oring?

New cotter pins for castle nuts

Brake dust shields (probably not)

Coolant

Alternator pulley (current one is bent)

Rear timing covers (13575AA055, 13568AA035)

PS Reservoir Oring (34427AA060)

 

 

PS Pump rebuild diagram: http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_25/steering/oil_pump/illustration_1/

 

 

Maintenance:

142,217 miles (8/2016). New spark plugs, new MAF

[BarManBean]

Nvm, I bought it!

 

Basic rundown--'97 OB Sport with 140k miles on the odometer. Oil leaks, some minor body damage, will need a set of tires, speedometer doesn't work...but it runs and drives ok and only cost me $700

[Dispatch20]

Hard to go wrong for $700. I'd buy it for that.

[BarManBean]

Yeah. If it dies I can scrap it for more than that

[johnegg]

torque bind is one of the things to look out for.

drive in slow tight circles ,

it should drive smooth and easy.

 

and the timing belt, is due every 60k miles or 60 months.

at 140k,

i doubt the timing belt was done with in the last 3 years.

so unless there documented proof that the t-belt was done,

AND that the idler pulleys were done with it,

i would plan on replacing it all.

the toothed idler is usually the part that fails,

and the idlers in general are the timing parts that are usually overlooked.

it is an interference engine, better to do it than take the risk.

 

nice buy.

good luck.

[BarManBean]

Slow tight circles seemed to be ok--aside from the busted driver's front axle.

 

I have literally ZERO maintenance records for the car, so I'll just start from scratch.

[Dispatch20]

For the $700 buy-in cost of the vehicle, I wonder if it's even worth changing the timing belt. It's a calculated gamble. You should do all the fluids (except for perhaps the tranny fluid...sometimes its best to leave old tranny fluid alone) because they are easy. You'd really have to commit to owning the car for a while to bother with the timing belt.

 

I used have a 2.2L. Great engine aside from the perpetual oil leaks.

[BarManBean]

Well, that's one school of thought I guess. The other is that I'd still prefer to have some confidence in the car, not get stranded, and not purposely turn it into a paperweight.

 

The big plus, is that I should now be able to put either this car or my OBXT down for maintenance while having the other car available to drive. Can work at a leisurely pace in the evenings and just get stuff done.

 

There are definitely some oil leaks. Looking underneath I couldn't even tell where they were coming from exactly. Will definitely tackle the axle to make sure grease isn't slinging all over the place anymore and will go from there. Timing bits shouldn't be too bad and I can check out cam seals and what not as well while I'm in there.

 

What's the go-to timing belt kit for these? Looks like Gates is about $200 where Dayco is about $130...?

[twisty]

man i wish we had pricing like that here. i just picked up a 96 legacy outback for 1200. its a decent car, but prices here are so screwed up its annoying.

 

id go with the gates belt

[BarManBean]

man i wish we had pricing like that here. i just picked up a 96 legacy outback for 1200. its a decent car, but prices here are so screwed up its annoying.

 

id go with the gates belt

 

This isn't normal pricing, and I'm still waiting to find out I'm somehow getting screwed. I'll be happier when it's retitled in my name and whatnot. I've been perusing for the right cheap car for well over a year, this was the first one that was close enough, met enough requirements, and that I could get to before it sold.

 

 

Also, changed thread title so this can be a bit of a build / asking questions thread while I learn my way around the car.

[BarManBean]

And for the timing stuff--how do i know if I have an integrated assembly or not? Pull the parts first to find out?

[BarManBean]

And for front axles, do folks have good luck with aftermarket replacements or remans?

 

 

And sorry if some of this info is in the stickies. I'll read those shortly.

[johnegg]

And for the timing stuff--how do i know if I have an integrated assembly or not?

the integrated one piece tensioner started in the 98 model year.

that does not mean a late 97 could not have one.

so check your build date, underside of driver door,

or submit your VIN when ordering.

good quality timing kits with water pump can be had for under $150 on amazon.

 

i get the seals, cam, crank, oil pump o-ring, and water pump gasket from the dealer.

about $30 wholesale, $36 retail.

DO NOT replace the t-stat unless you buy it from the dealer.

they do not fail often,

and after market WILL give you overheating issues.

i'd rather use a 17 yo subaru t-stat than a brand new after market.

 

And for front axles, do folks have good luck with aftermarket replacements or remans?

no, after market , and remans are CRAP, unless they come from subaru.

better to re-boot a subaru factory axle (unless it is clicking) than to replace it with aftermarket.

reboot is messy, more labor and more expensive,

but a used subaru axle is WAY WAY better than any other.

subaru factory axles ALL have a green inner cup at the trans.

 

if you do not have factory axles on your car,

consider used ones from

www.car-part.com and reboot.

or try a high quality replacement.

i have used one EMPI with no down side.

but it is not very old.

 

never buy remans unless they come from subaru $$$.

 

of course any thing to get it on the road is better than walking.

but long term i would plan on a different solution.

but i would NEVER turn in a subaru factory axle as a core for a cheap, local parts store, reman.

 

what else?

[johnegg]

There are definitely some oil leaks.

most common oil leaks on the ej22:

valve cover gaskets

cam

crank

oil pump (more of an internal oil leak causing low oil pressure, check the screws on the backing plate)

 

rear oil separator plate, this is on the rear of the engine block behind the flex plate.

you have to pull the engine to fix it.

but it can leak like an SOB.

leave it for last.

 

steering pump o-ring, between the reservoir and the pump, $2 and 30 minutes.

and some times the oil pressure sender, on top of block under the Alt, a one wire sensor.

 

it is not recommended to replace the rear main seal unless it is really really leaking.

some ooze does not count.

if it is not DRIPPING, do not replace.

all of the oil from the rear of the block is from the oil sep plate,

NOT the rear main.

[johnegg]

FYI:

imho

keep oil in it and change the t-belt as specified,

and the ej22 will out last your OBXT.

no contest.

 

but i'm biased.

and i have too many cars and not enough years to prove my theory.

[BarManBean]

thx thx thx johnegg, great info. Not surprised to hear on the axles. The one that needs replacing is clicking quite badly when turning, can it still be rebuilt?

 

Also great to know on the seals and thermostat.

 

I'm going to put the car up on stands here shortly to address the axle and ??tie rod boot?? It's the little boot on the rack&pinion--definitely torn badly. Will also clean up a bunch of the oil as best I can so I can start to get some idea of where it's coming from. Right now it just looks like miles and miles of drips that have accumulated a bunch of grime. Probably looks worse than it actually is.

 

And no doubt it could outlast the EJ257. Why do you think I bought a second car

[BarManBean]

Also, picked up a set of wheels with tires mounted up for $50 tonight. They are cruddy tires for sure, but have decent treat (9/32) and are all the same / correct size. Will get those on so I don't have to worry about the diff--hopefully no damage there.

[johnegg]

The one that needs replacing is clicking quite badly when turning, can it still be rebuilt?

it is probably a re-man axle ~ $50 locally.

 

for now , most simple,

order a new EMPI from rockauto.com

or just throw on one from autozone.

 

there is a good re-builder in colorado.

they used to be MWE, now FWE i think.

there may be a link on the ''colorado component rebuilders'' web site. (CCR)

the guy running it now is a member over on ultimatesuabru.org.

you may find him by searching ''retroroo'', i think.

i forget his name.

they do really good quality rebuilds,.

but you have to ship back your core.

so shipping ends up adding a good bit to the cost.

but for the quality, it cost less than an actual suabru axle.

 

the problem with the cheap axles and remans (china?) from local parts stores,

some are bad right out of the box,

they do not last, and

they can cause a really odd ''vibration'' when sitting at a stop light.

somehow they transmit normal engine/trans vibration to the chassis of the car.

the vibration goes away when you shift into N or P.

really odd.

it does not cause driving issues, but it is a pain.

[BarManBean]

Fair enough. I'm not in a big rush here, will track down an OEM replacement.

 

What parts will transfer to this car? Anything from an automatic impreza/obs/forester from what, 1994-1998?

[BarManBean]

Looks like it might work for $50: http://sspparts.com/buy-used/1998-Subaru-FORESTER-AXLE-SHAFT-FR-R-PN-28021AC171/5510-1

[johnegg]

generally speaking,

 

engine, drive train, undercarriage, 95 - 99 impreza, legacy and forester.

exceptions, 99 outback and GT auto trans

some parts may be trans specific,

the drive shaft due to the length

and the rear diff due to final drive ratio.

 

possible exceptions 99 forester axles and front wheel hubs.

99 was a transition year,

by 00 the front axle had change due to the relocation of the ABS sensor.

so i don't know if the 99 forester matched 95 - 98, or 00 - 04.

 

body parts, 95 - 99 impreza.

maybe 93 - 94 as well.

 

wheels, any suabru wheel with 5 x 100 bolt hole pattern,

basically 90 - 04 lego, impreza, forester.

wrx are / become different at some point, but 95 - 99 will work.

 

i use http://www.car-part.com for parts interchange info

if the software retunrs a part, it should fit.

also opposedforces.com/parts

when you locate your part, click on the part number,

and then the usage info,

it will show the years/cars that used that part.

 

and a possible, really easy upgrade if and when you need struts.

buy 96 - 98 lego outback struts,

they bolt right on and lift it about 2.25 inches.

it will also allow you to run larger tires, 205/70/15 stock outback / forester size 96 - 99.

but the larger tires will throw off your speedo and odo.

you would be driving about 8% faster then the speedo indicates.

so 70 on the speedo = 75 actual. BE CAREFUL

assuming your speedo was accurate to begin with.

[BarManBean]

Put it up on stands tonight, pulled off the front wheels to take a look and crawled around underneath. Two leaks on the garage floor from the past two days. One looks to be at the timing belt cover (suspected cam seal?) and other appears to be the transmission fluid bolt. Took some pics of the underside (gross) and also some videos of me hooking up the smoke machine to the exhaust--3 leaks at muffler and then up towards the rear cat, look to all be welds by a crappy welder.

 

I don't have a 32mm socket (for axle nuts) so could remove the axles. Looks like both might be remans. The boot on the drivers side also looks ok so I'm a bit perplexed by the clicking there. Could the clicking be the steering rack boot there? I don't think so, and still think the axle is just bad.

 

http://s934.photobucket.com/user/BarManBean/media/97%20Outback%20Sport/F042F209-A18D-4E25-81C5-86E91C9EF95F_zpssxhxxupp.mp4.html

 

http://s934.photobucket.com/user/BarManBean/media/97%20Outback%20Sport/71D27DC0-B537-4CD6-A6EF-F82CE840663A_zpsq6eou6hx.mp4.html

[monkeyposeur]

Mods please move this thread to the appropriate Impreza forum.

[johnegg]

Mods please move this thread to the appropriate Impreza forum.

please don't, i do not go there. :-)

i'll be left behind.

 

 

Looks like both might be remans. The boot on the drivers side also looks ok so I'm a bit perplexed by the clicking there. Could the clicking be the steering rack boot there?

no , not the rack boot.

FYI, when you replace the rack bellows / boot

you will need a front end alignment unless you are very careful.

you have to count the number of turns it takes to remove the tie rod end.

then reinstall it in the exact same place.

 

both axles are probably cheap remans.

and as i said, they do not last,

they go bad for no reason, no torn boot.

get the 32mm socket, 1/2 inch drive,

and either an electric impact wrench, (harbor freight $40 - $50)

mine spins then right off.

or a breaker bar with an extension cheater pipe, a long one.

there is a picture somewhere of a guy using the cat back exhaust as an extension for the breaker bar on a wheel axle nut.

 

you may not have a lot of trouble since the axles are not original,

your axles have been replaced , perhaps within the last 2 -3 years.

 

be sure to coat the new splines and axle nut threads with anti-seize.

it will help for the next time.

if there is a next time.

 

the oily mess in the last picture above, on the bottom of the front diff,

is probably from the oil separator plate on the rear of the block.

buy several cans of spray ''brake clean''.

spray off the bottom of the engine trans,

and then watch it daily to see where the oil appears first.

tip, it is always 'above and in front of' the wet spot.

 

the front oil leak is either the cam or crank seals.

do them with the timing belt.

[BarManBean]

Mods please move this thread to the appropriate Impreza forum.

 

Yeah, that's not gonna happen

 

please don't, i do not go there. :-)

i'll be left behind.

 

 

no , not the rack boot.

FYI, when you replace the rack bellows / boot

you will need a front end alignment unless you are very careful.

you have to count the number of turns it takes to remove the tie rod end.

then reinstall it in the exact same place.

 

both axles are probably cheap remans.

and as i said, they do not last,

they go bad for no reason, no torn boot.

get the 32mm socket, 1/2 inch drive,

and either an electric impact wrench, (harbor freight $40 - $50)

mine spins then right off.

or a breaker bar with an extension cheater pipe, a long one.

there is a picture somewhere of a guy using the cat back exhaust as an extension for the breaker bar on a wheel axle nut.

 

you may not have a lot of trouble since the axles are not original,

your axles have been replaced , perhaps within the last 2 -3 years.

 

be sure to coat the new splines and axle nut threads with anti-seize.

it will help for the next time.

if there is a next time.

 

the oily mess in the last picture above, on the bottom of the front diff,

is probably from the oil separator plate on the rear of the block.

buy several cans of spray ''brake clean''.

spray off the bottom of the engine trans,

and then watch it daily to see where the oil appears first.

tip, it is always 'above and in front of' the wet spot.

 

the front oil leak is either the cam or crank seals.

do them with the timing belt.

 

Good stuff. I have all the tools needed, just not the 32mm socket. Electric impact should zip off the axle nuts no problem once I pick up the 32mm. And yeah, the plan is the clean up the underside a good bit an then see where the mess is coming from. Right now it's just atomized oil and gunk all over da place.

 

I'm on the look out for a couple of front axles since both are remans, the driver's is borked, and the passenger looks like it's leaking a bit at the trans.

 

Alignment is on order once I throw tires on that are worth more than $2 and other bits are R&R'ed