akm3 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I am 27 and single as well, and the 5 reasons you mentioned are some of the main reasons I lean towards the Legacy GT. Yet, for me the Legacy is just a bit TOO sedate. I want something in the middle...I want a Legacy STi :) A touch of bling and a touch of sophistication for a reasonable price... Oh well, maybe some year. -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.75L H6 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Maybe they'll make the Legacy STi as a 2006 model and price it around 35 grand, maybe drop the Impreza STi down to 30 to spead their market competitors. Or they could differentiate by upping the Impreza STi's #s / performance, while putting the Leg STi as more luxury to justify the version. Either way, the STi will need to grow to compete with the new Evo's, and the GT and/or its 'performance' version will need to compete with the Mazdaspeed 6, etc. Or maybe the Impreza STi will revert to a coupe version, the only 4-door STi could be the Legacy, justifying both models. Fun to wildly speculate on the future of Subaru! :D One more thing, I'm arguing for the GT here: [it gets good on page 2 :twisted: ] [url]http://www.fastcarforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6970[/url] Any ideas would sure help! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 All of the things you mentioned would be cool twists but to me it seems unlikely :( a) Subaru lowers the price of the STi...Doubtful. Very rare for any car mfg to lower the price of a car. b) Coupe STi, unlikely. To do that they'd also need a coupe Impreza which would be much more expensive and cannot be justified by the volumes. Also, a lot of people are attracted to the STi because it is high performance AND practical, a coupe isn't practical. c) Rev up the STi's performance. THIS is far more likely then the other two. If they pull a "OK Here is your 300/300 Legacy STi, and the 375/375 Impreza STi for the hardcore enthusiasts!" . Unfortunately, it seems that they are taking the Impreza STi more on the road to bloat/luxury rather then making it a harder core performer. The current 05 is already 35lbs heavier then the 04 and now comes with a radio standard (for $1600 more)...This is the wrong direction for STi in my opinion. d) This option would be to discontinue the Impreza STi and use the Legacy STi as the new Halo car. This might make some sense, keeping one 'halo' ultra performance car to highlight whatever latest model they want to and generate additional buzz. I can't speculate on if that is likely or not, but Mazda did it with their MazdaSpeed Protege (I think that is no longer available, but now you can get a MazdaSpeed Miata) e) They have no plans for a Legacy STi. Ultimately, consumer demand will prevail; if the research shows enough people will buy Legacy STi's to make it profitable, they'll do it. *I BELIEVE* one of their major factors in researching this is how many people buy the Legacy GT in a sedan with the STi options like the PINK pedals, door sills, Shift Knobs, etc that they are offering on the current legacy GT. I think it is an "OK, do Legacy buyers want STi stuff" type of test marketing. So, my theory is if a significant portion of Legacy buyers purchase pink pedals for their Legacy, we'll get a pink Legacy. -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Right or wrong, an STi version of the Legacy would all but require a turbo six. Here are my reasons, feel free to pick them apart: -While the Impreza STi engine can easily be tweeked for more power, it is not clear that this can be done from the factory (with warranty), while still being driven on 91 octane fuel. If you want more than 300/300, you need a turbo six. -An STi Legacy with a turbo four will never break out of a small niche market. As recognized repeatedly elsewhere, Subaru is not marketing to the Impreza crowd (expect maybe current owners who want something more upscale) with the Leg. As much as I hate it, Americans associate power and prestige with more cylinders, [b]or[/b], you can't lure a prospective M3 purchaser away from BMW with a turbo four Subaru. -A turbo four Legacy with power and price similar to the STi Impreza would blur the line between the two cars, especially if the Leg proved to be a better handler as the JDM Spec B's have done. This would adversely affect the STi more so than the Leg (in my opinion). -Finally, if Subaru does plan on bringing a further-boosted version of the Legacy to the USDM, they need to [b]not name it STi[/b]. While STi means performance to you, myself, and the rest of the world, it means Fast & Furious to the US masses. Again, if you want to take away from M3's and S4's (and that [b]would[/b] be an STi Legacy's market), then Subaru should badge the car as a Legacy Spec B or something similarly non-descript. OK, my thoughts on way too little sleep. Have fun... :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 First of all, welcome gt_ltd! The letter you got is standard, unless you know someone on the inside ;) you'll keep getting that, even if the car was coming out tomorrow and it was already sitting on a display for a show for tomorrow. Same blah, blah. It's more of a competition thing than anything, the one-upmanship, don't want to give away your secrets early. I completely agree with your reasons for buying a GT, hell I'm 22 and I've been waiting for a turbo Legacy for the last 4 years for all those reasons. Does that make me old before my time? :lol: As per the comment from someone about the Impreza WRX STi not needing to exist, well, as noted, it is there to invigorate people when some of the fanfare dies down a bit, something new, something fresh. It is there to fill a need, those who wanted the ultimate no-holds barred driving machine. Okay, it has a few shortcomings- weight mostly, but it does pretty well, and with the right driver, can downright be a killer competition machine. That's what it's built for, the Legacy GT is a touring machine, a budget executive driving machine (think WAflowers for one ;)), and more. They fit two different demographics. I tend to think/hope things will run something like his over the next couple of years (though it may disappoint some.) -05 Legacy GT -06 Legacy 3.0R introduced (maybe with a manual, maybe not, considering USDM, I'd be hesitant) -07 Legacy Spec B or STi model introduced (I'd prefer a performance package for insurance reasons, you could get the performance with any trim level, and not all aspects require significant reworking that adds bling and un-needed cost) -07 also reworks the Impreza lineup which should drop a significant amount of weight, perhaps get a little smaller, and the line refocused, the STi models would really differ at this point The more I look at it, the more it keeps looking towards that theory, but things can change again. At this point, it looks the most logical though. Each year, something must be added to really change things up, for '06, it will probably be just adding the H6 to the Legacy line (probably didn't add it initially as it gave them a big new thing for at least one year.) I also think the H6 may be a requirement to get any serious recognition in the sports car arena for a Spec B/STi model. Numbers count, particularly in the USDM. An H6 turbo setup may be destined for the Legacy, but I think it's still ideal for the 4-cylinder turbos to stay in the Impreza line to keep the sporting weight, simplicity, and image. Add 2 cylinders to the Impreza and it's way beyond a rally car then. It probably won't need much boost to exceed above 300hp, probably in the area of 11lbs or less. That's good though, has the ability to stay more efficient at least while being able to unleash a fury at a moments notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 [quote name='akm3']If a Legacy STi with all the go-fast Impreza bits and bling came out, who would buy an Impreza STi? I mean, at that point what possible reason does the Impreza have to exist? The only thing I could think of is if the Legacy STi is so much more expensive then the Impreza STi that they compete in completely different demographics. Personally, I'm torn between an Impreza STi or a Legacy GT. A Legacy STi would end the internal struggle. -Allen[/quote] Look at the JDM. The Legacy and Impreza are at comparable power levels. There a more things than just power that make a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='akm3']If a Legacy STi with all the go-fast Impreza bits and bling came out, who would buy an Impreza STi? I mean, at that point what possible reason does the Impreza have to exist? The only thing I could think of is if the Legacy STi is so much more expensive then the Impreza STi that they compete in completely different demographics. Personally, I'm torn between an Impreza STi or a Legacy GT. A Legacy STi would end the internal struggle. -Allen[/quote] Look at the JDM. The Legacy and Impreza are at comparable power levels. There a more things than just power that make a car.[/quote] Well, like what? In America we don't get all the fancy/schmancy Legacy luxury options like Nav and whatnot. Given the price comparison between the standard WRX and the Legacy GT, I can't understand why anyone would buy a WRX (unless they wanted a 2.0 liter engine to compete somewhere (which the STi doesn't offer as an advantage) or they want to Fast and the Furious-ify it.) Same with the hypothetical Legacy STi, assuming similar prices and power why would you buy an Impreza STi? Only thing it has is a more FATF image. I'm not trying to be combatitive, I really just don't understand how these cars would NOT step on each other's toes in the American marketplace. -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 [quote name='gt_ltd']I dunno, but I won't buy an Impreza STi anyway (at least for now) since (1) I don't like the interior quality, (2) I am pretty sure it will attract some retarded kids to street race me, (3) it is kinda small, (4) insurance cost is crazy, and (5) it will get vandalized easily. I know an ex-WRX wagon owner who owns a last-gen. ///M3 and a new 325xi, even though he likes the Impreza STi, he won't buy one for pretty much the same reasons stated above ($31K doesn't seem to be an issue for him). We are both interested in the new Legacy GT. I'd have got an Impreza STi when I was still in college, but now it is just "too much" for me as a daily car. I am 27 and single :), btw. [quote name='akm3']If a Legacy STi with all the go-fast Impreza bits and bling came out, who would buy an Impreza STi? I mean, at that point what possible reason does the Impreza have to exist?[/quote][/quote] Someone has alreayd mentioned a few... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 akm, my dealer said essentially the same thing, that with the WRX and Legacy GT sedan priced as they are, why would anyone buy a WRX? My answer was that the WRX still has the extroverted, rally-bred performance cred, where the Legacy is "someone's father's car." Certain young'uns wouldn't be caught dead driving a mid-sized family sedan. I think it explains why the styling of the Impreza has gotten more adolescent, for lack of a better descriptive. It's a definitely young-trending car now, with the redesign. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC GT Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 [quote name='akm3']*I BELIEVE* one of their major factors in researching this is how many people buy the Legacy GT in a sedan with the STi options like the PINK pedals, door sills, Shift Knobs, etc that they are offering on the current legacy GT. I think it is an "OK, do Legacy buyers want STi stuff" type of test marketing. So, my theory is if a significant portion of Legacy buyers purchase pink pedals for their Legacy, we'll get a pink Legacy. -Allen[/quote] Not to stray too far off topic, but Subaruparts.com lists the aluminum WRX pedals (with BLACK rubber knobs) for $47.94. I'd much rather have those in a black Ltd. sedan than the pink ones. Whoever gets delivery of their 5MT Legacy first, can you check to see how well those pedals will fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 A few years ago (the college days...) when I was looking to buy a new car, the sales guy tried to sell me a new 1999 Legacy GT, even though I kinda liked it after a test-drive, I got something else b/c I didn't think I was old enough to be driving a Legacy... I'd very likely have got a WRX if it was available. [quote name='gtguy']akm, my dealer said essentially the same thing, that with the WRX and Legacy GT sedan priced as they are, why would anyone buy a WRX? My answer was that the WRX still has the extroverted, rally-bred performance cred, where the Legacy is "someone's father's car." Certain young'uns wouldn't be caught dead driving a mid-sized family sedan. I think it explains why the styling of the Impreza has gotten more adolescent, for lack of a better descriptive. It's a definitely young-trending car now, with the redesign. Kevin[/quote] This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Even though I'm young, I still love the styling of the Legacy GT. I like the WRX too, but the sleak look of the GT sedan really appeals to me. I finally got the official 05 brochure in the mail today, and the black sedan fold-out looks awesome. :D -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub-attraction Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 How'd you get it, do tell. I want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I'm nice to a salesman at the local dealership. He sent me one. :D -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Are you talking about the 05 or 04 Legacy? IMO the new one looks way better than the old one, except for the front bumper. :( I still don't see myself getting the last-gen Legacy now, even if 05 didn't exist. [quote name='Th3Franz']Even though I'm young, I still love the styling of the Legacy GT. [/quote] This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 [quote name='gt_ltd']Are you talking about the 05 or 04 Legacy? IMO the new one looks way better than the old one, except for the front bumper. :( I still don't see myself getting the last-gen Legacy now, even if 05 didn't exist. [quote name='Th3Franz']Even though I'm young, I still love the styling of the Legacy GT. [/quote][/quote] Talking 05. The front bumper is fine in person, IMHO. The 04 looks.. eh.. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.75L H6 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I'm probably the youngest one here, and I love the sexy new GT. [minus the orange light plastic... lol] I love the Impreza, like he said, more adolecent styling, which is perfect for rally-inspired cars, but the new Leggy is the "entry-luxo-midsize" -- therefore its rightfully the most classic-looking Subaru to be produced of the past 5 years. Not to say its fender, side lines, and the scoop don't make it look lean and muscular, cues that I think Subaru will use for some time. Even the OB looks like its built to slice throughthe gravel and dust with the SWRT swoosh on the side. By balancing the styling like they've done, Subaru maintains one of its unique qualities that is no where else in the market. I have that same foldout taped to my wall right next to my monitor, lol! Great shot. Got the full brochures at Burt. 555-your progression sounds about on the mark, and hopefully the bigwigs in Indiana/New Jersey/Tokyo don't miss it! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Franz, I should stop over at your place! You've been getting more attention there than me! I'm 22 and love the new Leg, wanted a turbo Leg since I was 18, didn't want to be part of the status quo and be all WRX-ish. Not that a WRX is a bad car or something I wouldn't mind for just racing, it's just the Leg offers a lot more for what you get. Some days though I feel like I'm old driving a GT, dunno why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 [quote name='3.75L H6']I'm probably the youngest one here...[/quote] So how old ARE you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm3 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 I think the styling on the 04 Legacy GT was pretty nice too! But the older Legacy GT's with the hood scoops were awesome! (I think that'd be 2001, they have the headlights from the 04 but the scoops (They got rid of all the scoops when the WRX came out)) It looks like a japanese B4 Blitzen so it was my fav :) The 05 Spec B is the best looking though. -Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Franz, I should stop over at your place! You've been getting more attention there than me![/quote] haha. Yeah I was surprised when Dan sent me the brochure.. I think I'm going to hang the GT sedan fold-out picture in my cubicle at work and then people will wonder what it is. :D So would a GT make other people think I'm older? Maybe I'd finally be able to get into a bar.. 8) :P -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Seen a lot of pictures of the new GT with the WRX air intake box, what do u think it would look like in real, thumbs up or down? Curious if it would create a bad drag effect over the car ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 The stock airbox as some have said is supposed to flow rather decent up to some 350chp or so. Plenty for my sake. The more stock looking, the better. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Does it still feed into the fender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 From what I recall Paul mentioning, no. I think he said it does without the elbow and the extra 'junk' now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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