quadrangle Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 The horrible thing about the Internet is that it makes it easy for people to jump to false conclusions using distorted data that is not statistically significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saberplane Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 The horrible thing about the Internet is that it makes it easy for people to jump to false conclusions using distorted data that is not statistically significant. True to an extent. I do think those taking the time to post about their cars, phones etc to online forums on average are also a bit more educated about the topic or at least more critical about what they expect from something they own. Having said that, this is the audience and I'm glad folks are pointing out things that I would probably notice too even though the majority of owners out there could have the issue and would never notice or assume it's just "normal". The number of folks who have said they noticed this issue on this forum though makes me think it's not that isolated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkshooter Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 A problem is the amount of people on a forum like this is tiny compared to the sheer numbers of car owners out there. The sample size here makes any number of complaints look huge in this tiny community, a number that would be nearly invisible in the real world. It gives the illusion of a huge problem that really isn't. Toss in that people will complain far faster and louder than they will compliment and the results of any attempted correlation look even more skewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicvega Posted April 24, 2016 Author Share Posted April 24, 2016 As for me I am a computer engineer with 28+ years of experience son of a mechanic. I was helping my dad fix cars since before I could remember. I have always worked on my own cars and have had my share of American and import. I have overhauled engines and changed timing belts and chains on all types of cars. My biggest project was transplanting a 5.0 HO engine into my V6 1987 Fox body Thunderbird. I have also fixed a couple of blown head gaskets, heater cores and fuel pumps. With that said. In all the years that I have worked on cars the only times I ever smelled antifreeze was whenever I flushed the system, a hose bursted, some overspill fell on the exhaust / motor and was burning off or there was a leak. So I probably should be a little bit concerned when I am smelling coolant on a car with less than 12,000 miles or less and find an empty reservoir bottle when I have driven rentals with similar milage for weeks at a time and never smelled coolant or had to fill the reservoir. Sorry for the rant but some of us here may have an idea of what is normal or what could be a potential issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkshooter Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 ^ I hope you didn't take my comments as a suggestion that you don't know what you are talking about because they were directed at nobody. I fully agree with you, coolant smell is not a normal everyday experience and to smell it means there's a leak somewhere. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quadrangle Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 It is, of course, good to hear individuals' anecdotal experiences. But now consider the Subaru dealer that SubieN8 brought his car to. I believe they are one of the biggest Subaru dealers in the region, if not in the nation. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please, N8.) Do people attach any weight at all to the fact that this is not a problem that dealership is seeing with other customers? And then N8 talked to SOA, and THEY don't seem to be aware of a general problem either. Should that have any weight? Is it possible that there is some general coolant leak problem that is just beginning to rear its ugly head? Well sure, of course. But can't people wait until there is real, meaningful data before they start declaring that such a problem exists? There are more than 300,000 current generation Legacys and Outbacks on the road (sold by SOA, more than that world-wide), and we have a handful of antifreeze odor incidents reported. And we don't even know if they are all caused by the same underlying problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie-boo Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The horrible thing about the Internet is that it makes it easy for people to jump to false conclusions using distorted data that is not statistically significant. Agreed! However , we had coolant probems pretty much from day 1 started smelling coolant at 350 miles on our 15' Legacy. It was an internal coolant leak at that, no drip but a consistent smell and loss of coolant . We own the car 10 months, which was 10 months too long and 10 months of BS. You should never ever smell coolant on a car. We have a 99 Suburban almost 180,000 miles & never ever smelt coolant not does it leak oil. Aldo have a 91 Honda Accord station wagon almost 400,000 miles runs like a top and the only time we've ever smell coolant is when we broke a hose. It was definitely a problem with her Subaru wants to admit it or not it's the first year of their new head gaskets oh and their 80% redesigned motor. Of course it's going to have problems and flaws that they're going to have to work out , which they need to admit and fixed so it doesn't happen in the future. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 It is, of course, good to hear individuals' anecdotal experiences. But now consider the Subaru dealer that SubieN8 brought his car to. I believe they are one of the biggest Subaru dealers in the region, if not in the nation. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please, N8.) Do people attach any weight at all to the fact that this is not a problem that dealership is seeing with other customers? And then N8 talked to SOA, and THEY don't seem to be aware of a general problem either. Should that have any weight? Is it possible that there is some general coolant leak problem that is just beginning to rear its ugly head? Well sure, of course. But can't people wait until there is real, meaningful data before they start declaring that such a problem exists? There are more than 300,000 current generation Legacys and Outbacks on the road (sold by SOA, more than that world-wide), and we have a handful of antifreeze odor incidents reported. And we don't even know if they are all caused by the same underlying problem. Shortline is the second largest Subaru dealer in Colorado and the third largest in the nation (volume sold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 This is the second loaner I've had in 3 days. No coolant or exhaust smell to speak of in either. I want out of my Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Agreed! However , we had coolant probems pretty much from day 1 started smelling coolant at 350 miles on our 15' Legacy. It was an internal coolant leak at that, no drip but a consistent smell and loss of coolant . We own the car 10 months, which was 10 months too long and 10 months of BS. You should never ever smell coolant on a car. We have a 99 Suburban almost 180,000 miles & never ever smelt coolant not does it leak oil. Aldo have a 91 Honda Accord station wagon almost 400,000 miles runs like a top and the only time we've ever smell coolant is when we broke a hose. It was definitely a problem with her Subaru wants to admit it or not it's the first year of their new head gaskets oh and their 80% redesigned motor. Of course it's going to have problems and flaws that they're going to have to work out , which they need to admit and fixed so it doesn't happen in the future. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Can you help me? How'd they diagnose it? Please, I'm desperate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie-boo Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 This is the second loaner I've had in 3 days. No coolant or exhaust smell to speak of in either. I want out of my Legacy. Man that socks! I wish you the best of luck. Our Legacy was at a dealer in service for a total if 54 days!! Problem? Nawwww Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quadrangle Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Agreed! However , we had coolant probems pretty much from day 1 started smelling coolant at 350 miles on our 15' Legacy. It was an internal coolant leak at that, no drip but a consistent smell and loss of coolant . We own the car 10 months, which was 10 months too long and 10 months of BS. You should never ever smell coolant on a car. We have a 99 Suburban almost 180,000 miles & never ever smelt coolant not does it leak oil. Aldo have a 91 Honda Accord station wagon almost 400,000 miles runs like a top and the only time we've ever smell coolant is when we broke a hose. It was definitely a problem with her Subaru wants to admit it or not it's the first year of their new head gaskets oh and their 80% redesigned motor. Of course it's going to have problems and flaws that they're going to have to work out , which they need to admit and fixed so it doesn't happen in the future. Subie-boo: You had a broken car. Name any model of any car ever mass produced, and some of them will be delivered to some customers broken. In the cosmic lottery that determines whose lives get to have unpleasant disruptions, your number came up the day you bought your Subaru. It sucks, and I'm sorry it had to be you. But it was going to be somebody. In fact, a lot of somebodies. That some small percentage of cars come off the assembly line flawed, though, does NOT mean that there is some fundamental design or manufacturing problem. Yes, you should never smell coolant in a car. So? Does that mean it doesn't happen? Of course it happens. I went to the Subaru Outback forum and searched for "coolant smell" and got hits. And just now, I randomly went to the Audi owners forum and searched for "coolant smell" and got hits. OF COURSE I DID!! Every model of every car has some that are broken in every way imaginable! It happens. That's what warranties and lemon laws (and law suits) are for. But the idea that just because it happened to YOU means it's a general problem is NOT a conclusion you can justify based on the available data. It's just the way the Internet works that problems and flaws which are rare or small get massively amplified. Go to yelp.com and look up your favorite restaurants. There's always SOMEONE who had their food burned, or their orders screwed up or had to wait 3 hours to get their drinks. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicvega Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 ^ I hope you didn't take my comments as a suggestion that you don't know what you are talking about because they were directed at nobody. I fully agree with you, coolant smell is not a normal everyday experience and to smell it means there's a leak somewhere. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Not at all buddy. Definitely worth mentioning that I may not be overreacting or making something bigger than it is. I agree with what you said. I'm getting ready to go to the dealer this morning. I will see what they tell me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 ^ Please share the news asap. If they find something, then I might have my people call your people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicvega Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 LOL SubieN8. So here's the scoop. A lot was said but what they did was flush and refill with new coolant. They gave me the excuse that my car was two quarts low on oil and that's why it's burning the coolant to compensate for the oil. I'm still scratching my head on that one. since I changed the oil last week, 5.1 QTs. I said, this has been happening since I got the car new in November 2014 with 8 miles on the odometer and I reported this when I have been here before. So I got the deer in the headlight stare. So they said that they needed to change the oil and coolant to factory specs to continue to be covered by the warranty and so that they can monitor it and further investigate. The tech said he could not find any leaks anywhere. The tech is a hardcore Subie guy. He has a few WRX's old and new himself. Anytime I go there the service lady will not let anyone else service my car because he's the top guy there. So for those of you wanting answers like me I guess we'll have to wait. I mentioned about this thread and he said depending where a car is will yield different results. For example, some people live at higher elevations than others, climate and the way you drive is a factor. A car that is always garaged vs a car that isn't garaged. Does any of this make sense to you? I get what he's saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capttris Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 When I was still under warranty, I took my car to 3 different dealers over a period of 2 years and 40,000 miles. Nobody could find any leak and nobody could smell anything. I was very frustrated but the smell is so rare for me (only after a long 2+ hour highway ride and then stopping and idling for a few mins - it would come through the vents) Shut off car for 30-60 mins and the smell was gone when I started up again. I can live with this since it is so rare and I haven't had to add coolant in over a year or 20,000 miles, so I am not too worried about it. I would still love to learn where this is coming from though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 LOL SubieN8. So here's the scoop. A lot was said but what they did was flush and refill with new coolant. They gave me the excuse that my car was two quarts low on oil and that's why it's burning the coolant to compensate for the oil. I'm still scratching my head on that one. since I changed the oil last week, 5.1 QTs. I said, this has been happening since I got the car new in November 2014 with 8 miles on the odometer and I reported this when I have been here before. So I got the deer in the headlight stare. So they said that they needed to change the oil and coolant to factory specs to continue to be covered by the warranty and so that they can monitor it and further investigate. The tech said he could not find any leaks anywhere. The tech is a hardcore Subie guy. He has a few WRX's old and new himself. Anytime I go there the service lady will not let anyone else service my car because he's the top guy there. So for those of you wanting answers like me I guess we'll have to wait. I mentioned about this thread and he said depending where a car is will yield different results. For example, some people live at higher elevations than others, climate and the way you drive is a factor. A car that is always garaged vs a car that isn't garaged. Does any of this make sense to you? I get what he's saying. It does make sense, the conditions, etc. I drive easy, it's garaged and I live at 5280ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 When I was still under warranty, I took my car to 3 different dealers over a period of 2 years and 40,000 miles. Nobody could find any leak and nobody could smell anything. I was very frustrated but the smell is so rare for me (only after a long 2+ hour highway ride and then stopping and idling for a few mins - it would come through the vents) Shut off car for 30-60 mins and the smell was gone when I started up again. I can live with this since it is so rare and I haven't had to add coolant in over a year or 20,000 miles, so I am not too worried about it. I would still love to learn where this is coming from though. If this was rare, then I'd be more apt to deal with it. Mine is constant. My exhaust smell is when I am on the highway, so there goes driving out of town on any road trips! I am not expecting this to be fixed. I hope that the option to be helped out of this Legacy and into another may happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicvega Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 I would've like to think being that this is a new motor somehow this might be normal. I took a photo for the reservoir for documentation and tracking purposes. Glad you guys are on board and hopefully we'll figure this out before they find Jimmy Hoffa or Big Foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Have any of you reporting coolant loss and/or smell with no visible leaks ... or your dealers ... ever tried simply replacing the radiator pressure cap with a known-good part? A radiator cap that doesn't properly pressurize the cooling system could lead to boiling and coolant loss out the reservoir overflow, even at normal engine operating temperatures, which would likely be accompanied by a persistent coolant odor. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 ^ Unsure. I'm leaving it in their hands, totally. No news yet, but I should hear something by Saturday. I trust them, but have doubts as to what the outcome will be. I'm expecting them to find nothing wrong and for them to send me on my way, asking me to bring it back when it breaks. It's a business after all, not a family or a charity. I need to stay realistic. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Update: My SA said that she had 4 Techs drive it and no one smelled anything. I'll be picking it up Monday morning. No mention of anything other than to pick it up Monday. So, I will be labeled as "Nice, but crazy", I am sure... I will look at other options at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1692 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 Update: My SA said that she had 4 Techs drive it and no one smelled anything. I'll be picking it up Monday morning. No mention of anything other than to pick it up Monday. So, I will be labeled as "Nice, but crazy", I am sure... I will look at other options at that time. Of course, the 4 techs are probably so used to smelling various different fluids from dealing with them every single day that they may not be as sensitive to the smell as other people like you or I would be. Pretty disappointing to hear this, especially with how loyal you have been to Shortline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 ^ Yep. Me too. I've sent my SA a text advising that I'll be picking it up today at 1. No sense in them keeping it for the weekend. I want this situation over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieN8 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I was offered a 2016 3.6r in Lapis Blue with Moonroof/keyless/ES/NAV for $30,400 with a trade in of $19,000. - I declined. I was offered a 2016 Forester XT Premium for $26,900. - I also declined. I will remain in my vehicle for a while longer and go elsewhere. Drama is over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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