awilkie84 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 So, we got our first good dump of snow (2-3") and I drove my 98 LGT to work today. I had no issues. Went out for lunch & had a bit of a scary experience. I was pulling out of the parking lot, very minor downhill in slush. I put the brakes on the way I'd normally expect to & the ABS kicked in. The car slid about 10'. Almost got hit by a truck coming down the road. Chocked it up to poor judgement on my braking. On the way back into the parking lot, the same thing happened as I was slowing down to pull into a spot. The ABS kicked in, the car slid & actually went the opposite direction of where the wheels were pointed. Am I doing something wrong, or is there something wrong with the vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 What tires do you have on there? The ABS is kicking in because 1 or more of the tires are slipping. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Subaru do understeer but its mostly by nature of an AWD vehicle, tires are a big part of how well a subaru tracks in the snow not to mention a driver skill. Your drive tires are spinning one way and momentum of the car is going the other direction. You have to be ready and a step ahead of the car in those situations. Also if you have a 4eat which 90% of the time will not do what you want at the time you want it. Too much lag on the torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awilkie84 Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 What tires do you have on there? The ABS is kicking in because 1 or more of the tires are slipping. It has Uniroyal Tiger Paws Touring on it right now. I'm terrible with tire ratings, but I had a set of these on 2 vehicles in the past & they were decent. The treads looks almost new, too. Subaru do understeer but its mostly by nature of an AWD vehicle, tires are a big part of how well a subaru tracks in the snow not to mention a driver skill. Your drive tires are spinning one way and momentum of the car is going the other direction. You have to be ready and a step ahead of the car in those situations. Also if you have a 4eat which 90% of the time will not do what you want at the time you want it. Too much lag on the torque. It's a 5-speed manual. I guess that in the 2nd situation, I could have hit the gas to straighten out the understeer. What would you suggest in the first situation? I braked early & wasn't doing more than 15km/h, but still slid 10-12'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnectar Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Gas is your friend in the snow on subarus. I have nitto winter tires sith 80% tread life. If your going to fast and hit the brakes your going to slide like everyone has said. Awd allows for quicker acceleration in the snow. It doesnt add any benifit to slowing down. Lots of awd car owners get to confident. Two of my friends have gotten stuck this year already by sliding into snow drifts. 02 foreseter and 09 sti... Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Down shifting in slippery conditions is a lot better than mashing your brakes even in 1st gear the motor will brake the momentum. You can throttle the e brake, most people that have little defensive driving experience or bad weather driving think that the emergency brake is only for an emergency but you can use it to whip the rear around as slow or as fast as you want. Since you have a manual transmission you have complete control of your car, now you just have to control yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Yes manual transmissions are definitely better in the snow because you can downshift and rely very little on the brakes. I've only driven my Legacy once on slippery roads (a coating of sleeting) and the brakes seemed to work well. I would tend to think ABS are better in the snow than non- ABS because ABS should be kicking in as soon as the brakes begin to lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivant Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 So, we got our first good dump of snow (2-3") and I drove my 98 LGT to work today. I had no issues. Went out for lunch & had a bit of a scary experience. I was pulling out of the parking lot, very minor downhill in slush. I put the brakes on the way I'd normally expect to & the ABS kicked in. The car slid about 10'. Almost got hit by a truck coming down the road. Chocked it up to poor judgement on my braking. On the way back into the parking lot, the same thing happened as I was slowing down to pull into a spot. The ABS kicked in, the car slid & actually went the opposite direction of where the wheels were pointed. Am I doing something wrong, or is there something wrong with the vehicle? I suppose I forget you guys up north get such horrible winters with months of snow. Down south here in New Zealand whenever you talk to someone from America they say you Kiwis always moaning about the cold winters. You wouldn't know what winter is with your 12d c days. I suppose they're right, it doesn't really get that cold here compared to what you guys have to put up with. The only snow we see is on the mountain tops. keep your chin up people, it will be all over in a couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleaidestar Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Yes manual transmissions are definitely better in the snow because you can downshift and rely very little on the brakes. I've only driven my Legacy once on slippery roads (a coating of sleeting) and the brakes seemed to work well. I would tend to think ABS are better in the snow than non- ABS because ABS should be kicking in as soon as the brakes begin to lock. I'm going to delete the abs on my first gen, eventually that will just be a desert ripper for me. Don't need it getting in the way and drawing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddog Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 With my Conti Extreme DWS's and my Kuhmo Estca 4x's. I have had this issue. When it snows I just pull my ABS fuse and I can stop much much easier. The ABS system is seriously touchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I personally hate abs and traction control... I'd rather BE in control, not a computer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 when in doubt, power out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooln30 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 What legacy model do you have? Owning two different models I found the Legacys with the single piston front brake calipers really suck in the snow with any all season tire installed. My abs kicked in all the time driving in snowy roads. Winter tires did help a lot though. Now with my 99lgt and the two piston calipers my abs rarely engages and with snow tires I don't think the abs kicked in once this year so far. You'll just have to get to a very open parking lot and get to know your Subaru. Learn how far you can push it while maintaining total control. Also make the car slide and learn how to pull out of the slide. Like I said a large open lot is good for this. Almost every time we get a snow fall I go to the same lot just to have some fun. Subarus with snow tires in winter, nothing can beat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailman Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I suppose I forget you guys up north get such horrible winters with months of snow. Down south here in New Zealand whenever you talk to someone from America they say you Kiwis always moaning about the cold winters. You wouldn't know what winter is with your 12d c days. I suppose they're right, it doesn't really get that cold here compared to what you guys have to put up with. The only snow we see is on the mountain tops. keep your chin up people, it will be all over in a couple of months. 12 C? It was -29 (-20F) here the other night I found the Subaru to be a bit counter-intuitive in the snow. Best to find an empty lot and practice. I prefer the non-ABS version but even so I feel completely comfortable and in control in any situation with the 4EAT. The biggest issue I have is ground clearance when busting through deep snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkchopSandwiches Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Just had my first snow experience in a legacy gt today too. Similar amount of snow on the roads and I've got some fairly new all season Kumhos on there. It definitely can get itself going in the snow but compared to my Volvo with snow tires, this thing can't stop itself or stay on track worth a damn. I'm currently scouring craigslist in a 100 mile radius for snow tires that will fit. I don't think there's anything wrong with your car, OP. All season tires just don't cut it when temperatures get low and snow is on the roads. Try to find some studded snow tires and you'll be in great shape. The main misconception with AWD cars is that they are better all around in the snow. They're really only better at accelerating. Cornering and braking will be just about the same as any other car with the same tires. That's why the first people off the road in snow are AWD cars. We get too confident and forget that we still can't stop better than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 That's why the first people off the road in snow are AWD cars. We get too confident and forget that we still can't stop better than anyone else. This. AWD helps you accelerate. It does literally NOTHING to improve your grip in turns or while braking. It can help you in turns if you start sliding if you can get the car to rotate into the turn and then accelerate (rally style) but beyond that, AWD is only good at helping you increase and maintain your momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I agree in principle--but AWD does offer a slight advantage in slowing down if coupled to a manual transmission... as mentioned earlier. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Just more stable engine braking with the 5MT really. But, I disagree with it only helping you accelerate. You have so much more control than anything with FWD it RWD in turns, especially when you start to slide. Physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 ^ that Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 This is true, but from what I've seen with people on the road, they don't understand how to use AWD to their advantage in a turn. And to be honest, you really shouldn't be accelerating or braking in a turn in the snow unless you are trying to have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Well, it's a user issue, not equipment. The AWD in this case is there for added safety in an emergency situation. Shit happens, and if AWD helps you and you've come to understand how to use it properly in the snow, then you're a lot better off. Plus, driven normally, even if you don't know how to use it, engine breaking and power on all 4 wheels is more stable than just two, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 With AWD, less chance of the non-drive end of the car breaking loose and making you go sideways, although if you push an AWD too hard you can get it to do that. Also, AWD fish-tails a lot less (My Nissan 4X4 did fishtail one time, I remember). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Now, I'm not talking about driving like an ass hat. I'm talking about driving, or at least attempting, to drive in such a manner that is "safe for the road conditions." It all depends on how you take the car around a turn. Too fast in, AWD, FWD, and RWD will under-steer FWD will under-steer through the middle of a turn, AWD and RWD will rotate. RWD will rotate much easier at the the exit of a turn than AWD will. FWD will under-steer at the exit of a turn as well. Basically, FWD sucks in snow unless you're driving carefully and specifically. RWD is harder to control if you need to make a quick move, or give it too much power through the middle and exit of a turn. AWD gives you the ability to react more safely in an emergency situation, and is easier to control with the throttle through the middle and exit of a turn. I absolutely hate driving my Honda in the rain, especially since I've disabled traction controls all together. It was worse with traction control.. But, either way, I imagine it being much much worse in snow. But, as long as I attempt to drive in a very reasonable manner, I have nothing to worry about. Basically, I have to stay out of the throttle in lower gears and not chuck it into turns too fast. With my Subaru's, 4EAT or 5MT, the amount of control provided by having AWD makes rain/snow driving so so so much better. It's easy to correct any unders-steer with throttle in the snow. It's also easy to control sudden rotation with throttle as well. The Camaro is RWD. That car is ass happy even in the dry. I have never pushed the car around a turn because it will kill me. In the rain it has much more grip than FWD until it's lost. Then, good luck. It's a handful, especially in snow. But, if driven carefully enough, you there should never be a single issue. My point is mostly directed towards emergency maneuvers. AWD just reacts in a much more controlled manner. If you have to suddenly change lanes, and very quickly, adding throttle or not, FWD will push almost straight forward and RWD will rotate. AWD will just go where you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 When I bought my STi in 2003, it was my first AWD car. I was staying in NH, and I would wake up early on mornings after a heavy snowfall to beat the plow trucks out to play in the road powder. I have had no better car before or since than the STi for snow. Maybe it was the DCCD, whatever, but in 6" of snow, the car was point-and-shoot in corners. Go in on the throttle, over steer, point the front end of the car toward the exit, and mash it, and it would just gently & predictably sweep through the turn. There were days I'd rather drive than go skiing. In Florida for 10 years now, and I miss it. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I have general arctics on my outback, when stopping normal it's kind of hard to get the ABS to kick in.. so one day when we had about 3" I just slammed the brakes on and finally got the ABS to kick in. Have good thread makes a world of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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