1-3-2-4 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 When I bought my STi in 2003, it was my first AWD car. I was staying in NH, and I would wake up early on mornings after a heavy snowfall to beat the plow trucks out to play in the road powder. I have had no better car before or since than the STi for snow. Maybe it was the DCCD, whatever, but in 6" of snow, the car was point-and-shoot in corners. Go in on the throttle, over steer, point the front end of the car toward the exit, and mash it, and it would just gently & predictably sweep through the turn. There were days I'd rather drive than go skiing. In Florida for 10 years now, and I miss it. LOL you are so right about point and shoot with the car it's so fun! I can't wait to upgrade my diffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I have a 2010 STi tranny & front diff--but no controller. Down the road, I want to pick up a DCCD Pro, but it's not pressing for me because I spend 95% of my time on dry roads. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 two things: you can down shift a subaru auto trans just like a manual trans. shift in to 3 and it will shift down when slowed and will not shift up to 4. shift into 2 and it will stay in 2 and not shift up or down. shift into 1 and it will stay in 1. (in any gear, it will shift up to protect the engine as the rpm approach the red line ) second, ABS was not designed, nor does it help you stop. not stop fast, or sooner , or quicker or shorter, regardless of conditions. it was designed to allow you to steer when stopping in ALL conditions. (it probably should have been named ESS, Emergency Steering System.) this means as you are going down hill and not stopping in the snow, and the ABS is shuddering , you can in fact steer away from the truck bearing down on you. and lastly, on a side note, about driving AWD cars in the snow, just because your AWD will allow you to drive up one side of the hill safely, it does not mean you can drive down the other side of the hill safely just using the brakes. in snow you have to use your brain, use your engine and trans, slow down, and assume the other guy is going to screw up and run into you or out in front of you out of control. it happens. happy motoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 you can down shift a subaru auto trans just like a manual trans Erm... this may be worth revisiting & rewording. If you mean this as it reads, I'm going to have to go ahead & call you out on it. Specifically, ATs are missing that critical third pedal that allows for a lot more control over power delivery--which includes both speeding up & slowing down. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Erm... this may be worth revisiting & rewording. If you mean this as it reads, I'm going to have to go ahead & call you out on it. Specifically, ATs are missing that critical third pedal that allows for a lot more control over power delivery--which includes both speeding up & slowing down. Not sure what you are trying to argue here. He was pointing out that you can tell the AT what gear to go into by moving the shift lever into the appropriate position. Yes, there is that moment when it actually shifts into that gear which might not be quite as smooth as you might be able to achieve with a clutch, but once in the desired gear, you don't modulate engine braking with the clutch... you control that with the throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 once in the desired gear, you don't modulate engine braking with the clutch... you control that with the throttle. The clutch allows control over engine braking--and as we're talking about trying to stop vs. trying to go, that's really the issue here. I spent the first 25 years of my life in northern Maine. Once you've driven any distance in deep snow, you realize how important a clutch is. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnectar Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 My subaru spends 80% of its life in the snow. Abs in the legacies sucks. I always practice threshold braking to the point abs is about to turn on. You slow down sooner in the snow. That is the jist of it in any vehicle.. quicker acceleration leaves people oogling you. Stupid drivers who ditch there subarus in canada get pointed and laughed at.. please don't do that to yourself. My subaru has saved my life several occasions. Being able to accelerate away from the dodge 3500 who rolled over the meridian is a great benifit. And abs doesnt decrease stopping distance but if you lock your brakes up long enough you destroy tires. Its a necessary feature for people who don't know how to drive. Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 EDIT: you can down shift a subaru auto trans just like a manual trans. and use the engine to slow the car, just like a manual trans. when you shift a 90 - 04 auto trans into 1, it stays in one, just like a manual trans. when you shift an auto trans into 2, it stays in 2 just like a manual trans. when you shift an auto trans in to 3, it will start off in 1 and shift up to 3 and hold there until you slow down. when you down shift into 3 from 4 it will slow the car down, the engine will act as a brake unless you have the accelerator on the floor. The clutch allows control over engine brakingi guess in one sense it does, when you are up shifting you can slip the clutch and add power to the wheels more slowly. and you can down shift and slip the clutch to slowly engage the braking action of the engine. but i don't really see that as better, just different. i have never owned a manual trans subaru. but i have owned an manual trans vehicle, since 1981. i know how to operate a clutch, i believe safe driving in the snow has more to do with the driver than the trans. AWD gives you a big edge over FWD or RWD, but there are an awful lot of 4wd SUVs (stuck, wrecked, rolled,) on the side of the road every time it snows. 4WD and AWD can give someone a false sense of security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho subaru Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 The clutch allows control over engine braking- Ok, you've piqued my interested here. So are you saying when coming to a stop, in slippery conditions, you throttle the clutch pedal to help you slow the vehicle down? You must go through a lot of clutches. Engine braking is the same no matter what trans you have. It's accomplished by having your trans of choice in a low enough gear to allow it to give gearing resistance to help keep the vehicles speed in check. Johns point was that you do not need a third pedal to downshift or upshift an automatic. In fact, you do not need a third pedal to downshift or upshift most manual transmissions, but I digress. Point is, most people with automatics don't utilize the gearing options available to them. They were taught to put it in D and go. This is never more evident than being behind people on a long downhill grade and smelling everyone's brakes burning up. A majority of people with automatics have never put their car in any numbered gear. The manual trans sort of makes you use engine braking with your gears without really thinking about it. I'll go out on a limb here, and say that, IMO, if you understand the vehicle your operating, and how it reacts to different road conditions, there is no traction advantage to having a manual over an automatic. The greatest benefits to a manual is fuel mileage, easier to do a burnout(due to better power transfer from engine to tire), and IMO, they are much more fun to drive! Anytime I've ever had the automatic/manual discussion with someone, traction has never been a topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Ok, you've piqued my interested here. So are you saying when coming to a stop, in slippery conditions, you throttle the clutch pedal to help you slow the vehicle down? You must go through a lot of clutches. If you find you've picked too low a gear for engine braking for your given situation, your options with an auto are to throttle up or upshift. With a manual, you have another option. And depending on the road conditions, the results of poor gear selection can be manageable, or not. This is one reason slipper clutches have become so popular on modern sportbikes. For as often as you'd feather the clutch to modulate engine braking, you have little effect on its life. And since leaving the northeast... no, I doubt I've done it at all. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJay03 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I agree with this but I also think the ABS on the sencond gens is crappy. I rather have no abs and just pump the pedal manually. Gas is your friend in the snow on subarus. I have nitto winter tires sith 80% tread life. If your going to fast and hit the brakes your going to slide like everyone has said. Awd allows for quicker acceleration in the snow. It doesnt add any benifit to slowing down. Lots of awd car owners get to confident. Two of my friends have gotten stuck this year already by sliding into snow drifts. 02 foreseter and 09 sti... Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boattlebot Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Subaru do understeer but its mostly by nature of an AWD vehicle, if you always over steer, you never have to worry about the under steer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vr4 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Any car I have with abs that gets driven in the winter gets the fuse pulled, pump unplugged, etc. Whatever is easiest. Otherwise you'll never stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 IMHO, if you're driving so fast that you have to pull the ABS fuse in order to stop in time, you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 My limited experience with ABS in snow was that if it kicked in, I was pushing too hard and I need to take it easier. Mainly that was driving the '98 Frontier (manual transmission) that I used to have, and the one time so far I drove my Legacy on slippery roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Exactly. The ABS kicking on is basically a warning that you've gone too far. Braking on slick roads is not a Jeremy Clarkson style mash-the-pedal affair. You have to be dainty, and get a sense for how much grip you have. That's why a good winter driver will be frequently testing the brakes to see just how much grip they have. Yes, it is true that in a panic situation, being able to lock the tires can lead to shortened stopping distances, but that is only when you are in snow deep enough that it can meaningfully pack up ahead of the tire. Otherwise, you stop better WITHOUT locking the wheels, as the coefficient of friction is higher BEFORE the tires lock, than after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vr4 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 IMHO, if you're driving so fast that you have to pull the ABS fuse in order to stop in time, you're doing it wrong. Drive a 90s Mitsubishi in the snow and get back to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Had my first real driving experience in the snow tonight (extremely slick conditions where the snow is first sticking to the roads and the water underneath the snow is freezing up). The car handled fine but I agree the ABS is sensitive (engaged a couple of times but not coming to a stop so it was not an issue- kind of testing the waters). Was able to inch it down the driveway (a 25- 30 degree downhill) inching it very slowly and it did break loose a little but I regained control and parked in the garage). I do think I have a bit more control slowing down my '88 4X4 Nissan with a stickshift- at least the feeling of more control) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 drive the legacy in 2. if you need to slow down faster, down shift into 1. let the engine do the work. apply the brakes gently. but let the engine do most of it. in an emergency, drive for the side of the road or the ditch. it is much better to get stuck than struck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I did drop it into 2 a couple of times- it was kind of strange. I guess with a manual it is more natural to shift down- feels awkward with an auto, although in both cases you are downshifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boattlebot Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 the reason it feels akward is cus your not in control of how fast or slow the engine aplies its torque to the trans when downshifting an auto, making it jerky and un-natural feeling opposed to skilled shifting with a manual letting the torque aply gradualy throught skilled clutch work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You just have to get used to how the 4EAT shifts... I don't even know why there's a hug debate about snow/ice driving in these two recent threads... Screw around with your car in a controlled environment as much as you can, get used to how it operates now matter how you drive it, done. You should now be able to easily drive your Subaru in the snow very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo F Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 This morning on the icy road I did downshift into 2, then 1, and car stopped nicely at the intersection (they had at least sanded the road which I'm sure helped.) Put it back into drive and.... nothing... the car was no longer running? WTF?? Sitting in the middle of the intersection, started it back up and went about my way to work. Never stalled before or since.... strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boattlebot Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 ummmm ok? never heard of that happing before. the only thing i can think of is something made the torque converter slow down enought to stall the engine, why or how i really couldent be sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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