Any issues with running at 110mph for 50 minutes?

[rob-2]

in many cases, tire sealant is illegal on tracks because it makes a mess when the tire explodes. And it causes the tires to have increased load and less ability to shed heat.

 

I've had a front tire blowout at 80 on a front drive car and still drove it home (at 5mph). It's not hollywood, your car doesnt immediately turn into a flaming cartwheel ejecting your lifeless body into the next lane.

 

And yet he is neither on the track or traveling at 80mph. Why are you comparing apples to oranges here?

 

At the track I wouldn't bother, the straight aways are short. Surface reasonably cleaned.

 

have you met rao?

 

A good tire, properly mounted and maintained, will work as designed very well. Adding stuff to the inside of the tire affects its ability to work as designed. Especially when you are running near its upper limits. If it was designed to have stuff inside, it would come with it already added.

 

Lots of Germans travel the at 220-250kph. Show me something more then your opinion on the matter - like a study showing sealant cannot be used at speed. My greatest concern on an open road course is picking some crap up that causes a leak.

 

Do not add sealant to a tire! Sealant is designed as a last ditch get you out of trouble type product. Plus why would you want to add to the rotational mass of your wheels? How are you making sure each tire get the exact same amount of sealant to maintain balance?

 

If only the tires were the same weight to begin with!!! Crap!

[rob-2]

I think a lot of this has gone off the 'practical' into the theoretically this is your best plan.

 

Changing hubs for lower resistance, changing coolant, $600 helmets, this has gone off the deep end.

 

I think Deven is properly prepped for this and it seems his car is in good working condition to do the event. We are talking about 110mph average speed, not 200. He'll do just fine mentally. And Deven, having sat at those speeds running your AC is perfectly fine to keep yourself cool. If you were thinking RACE CAR then build one, but I don't think you are.

 

Next you guys are going to be telling him to get a roll cage. 5 point belt. Gutting the car to save weight. Running taller gearing for better top end. I mean the 'list' could go on for ever, but what he needs to do to enjoy this even safely is much shorter.

 

Quality gas - 110 oc might be helpful but I don't think you're going to be WOT as much as at a track

Reasonable pads

Driving within his limits

Slowing for turns (slow in fast out)

Good 10w40 oil

Required safety equipment

 

And most importantly, not forgetting he is doing this for fun and he needs to make it home in that car.

[boxkita]

Boxkita,

 

I very much appreciate you taking the time to share you knowledge. I'll take your list to my mechanics and review it with them (they track and autocross a bunch).

 

Based on your response, sounds like you have done this!

Yes. Many track days (including driving school), autocross.

Yes.

Yes. But plan to do more at 100+. As mentioned earlier, 100 feels good, 110 is floaty.

Yes, I have a detailed spreadsheet. Finishing close to the target class time would be great, but safety and learning the course are higher priorities.

No.

Pads and fluids get changed next week. Don't recall the name of the pads, but the mechanics autocross and track a lot.

No. More willing to drop to a lower speed class.

Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position 215 45 17 91W

Full face SA2010 helmet

Fire extinguisher within reach

Driving gloves & shoes

Full compliance with rally rule

 

Completely understand the concentration required and the fatigue. I workout a lot.

 

I definitely don't want to push it too much on my first run of the event, so I'll drop to either the 95 or 100mph class. Maybe I can keep the A/C on ?

 

Deven

 

"That your mechanics are track/autox enthusiasts" is not good enough. Sorry, its your butt on the line. Be sure you are getting what you need to run well. Running flatout at high-speed is a whole different world than an autox event.

 

About the a/c - sorry. If you want to run fast, ditch the a/c. The car is already going to be suffering at altitude (ask doccrowley) and adding a/c will make it worse.

 

Your tire is an all season tire. Ditch that and get something suitable for high-speed running in hot weather. Michelin Pilot SuperSport, Dunlop Direzza, BFG KDW or Rival. Is 215 a stock width on your car? Also, can you get a higher load rating, like 94?

 

If you don't have alot of sustained high-speed driving (I keep harping on this as you only learn it by doing it), I'd start in the lower class. You have to maintain a min speed of 80mph. At any time you drop below that, you DQ. Your max is 124 or the pace car. Pacing the pace car is a DQ, too.

 

Driving gloves & shoes? are they nomex? Invest in nomex socks & a headsock - both are cheap and are cheap insurance.

Full face helmet - do you have a dark visor? A really dark visor will help when the sun is out. If you have any scratches on the visor, replace it.

 

cruise control works up to about 95 (it does on mine, anyway - you want to make a driving instructor mad - go ahead and set it), which might help with the tranny.

 

working out? try working out in a suana. it equates to what your in-car temp will be for most of the trip. The firewall will be really hot be the end, and your legs will be hot. I've gotten 1st degree burns thru my jeans from hot track days (think smoker - low heat for long period of time).

 

brake pads - hawk hp+ would be a good pad, or something like it. When you need to slow down, you'll want something that can work at high temps. Hawk blues would be too much. Hawk HPS would probably work, though, I found they had alot of fade after the first high-speed brake.

 

brake fluid - be sure the mechanics do a full bleed to get all the old fluid out.

 

Floaty - comes from the soft wagon springs. The front raises up as speed increases. Which also makes it light, which makes turning harder. You can make a lip/air dam with sheet metal and screw it into the bottom of the bumper edge. Its hokey, but cheap. Try an inch at time until you feel you are less floaty. Dropping the front about 1/2 inch from the rear helped quite a bit on mine (then again, I was dropped nearly 2 inches on c/o). If you have a chance to swap in the ALK from whiteline, that will help a bit. If you haven't replaced any of the suspension bits, look into a set of sway bars (which will help with the high-speed corners). The front bushings on the lower control arm have a direct effect on your steering. Also, get an alignment - try to find a race shop or your mechanics can if they have a laser system.

[boxkita]

And yet he is neither on the track or traveling at 80mph. Why are you comparing apples to oranges here?

 

At the track I wouldn't bother, the straight aways are short. Surface reasonably cleaned.

 

Lots of Germans travel the at 220-250kph. Show me something more then your opinion on the matter - like a study showing sealant cannot be used at speed. My greatest concern on an open road course is picking some crap up that causes a leak.

 

If only the tires were the same weight to begin with!!! Crap!

 

In reverse order, how much are you paying for tires? The last set I had mounted used 2 grams of weight for all 4 tires, total not per wheel.

 

On an open road course if you pick up crap at speed, you have 2 options: 1) pull over & withdraw; 2) keep going. A slow leak at speed is going to play havoc with your steering. Tires that are filled with goop that moves at a different speed is going to adversely affect handling more. In a high-speed event, when you get a tire issue, if you're smart you'll drop out. If you hit something that is so big that the tire blows, no amount of goop will save you from the helicopter ride.

 

A tire pickup will do one of two things: 1) instantly deflate the tire; 2) cause a slow leak. In the first case, you're done. In second, you can ride out until your courage runs out.

 

Using goop as insurance is the wrong way. Buy a good tire, inflate properly, drive in the same general lane as everyone else, and you'll have the most likely tire incident free run.

 

If you're bombing down some random interstate traversed by all manner of vehicles and you dont carry a spare, then by all means carry goop. You can add when you get a flat. The rest of the time, you have created an opportunity for the tire to be continually out of balance.

 

As for proving your idea of using goop is not the best idea under the sun for a high-speed race, you haven't proved it is. As a matter of fact, you're not even using it, tho you claim to be doing repeated high-speed runs.

[devenh]

"That your mechanics are track/autox enthusiasts" is not good enough. Sorry, its your butt on the line. Be sure you are getting what you need to run well. Running flatout at high-speed is a whole different world than an autox event.

 

About the a/c - sorry. If you want to run fast, ditch the a/c. The car is already going to be suffering at altitude (ask doccrowley) and adding a/c will make it worse.

 

Your tire is an all season tire. Ditch that and get something suitable for high-speed running in hot weather. Michelin Pilot SuperSport, Dunlop Direzza, BFG KDW or Rival. Is 215 a stock width on your car? Also, can you get a higher load rating, like 94?

 

If you don't have alot of sustained high-speed driving (I keep harping on this as you only learn it by doing it), I'd start in the lower class. You have to maintain a min speed of 80mph. At any time you drop below that, you DQ. Your max is 124 or the pace car. Pacing the pace car is a DQ, too.

 

Driving gloves & shoes? are they nomex? Invest in nomex socks & a headsock - both are cheap and are cheap insurance.

Full face helmet - do you have a dark visor? A really dark visor will help when the sun is out. If you have any scratches on the visor, replace it.

 

cruise control works up to about 95 (it does on mine, anyway - you want to make a driving instructor mad - go ahead and set it), which might help with the tranny.

 

working out? try working out in a suana. it equates to what your in-car temp will be for most of the trip. The firewall will be really hot be the end, and your legs will be hot. I've gotten 1st degree burns thru my jeans from hot track days (think smoker - low heat for long period of time).

 

brake pads - hawk hp+ would be a good pad, or something like it. When you need to slow down, you'll want something that can work at high temps. Hawk blues would be too much. Hawk HPS would probably work, though, I found they had alot of fade after the first high-speed brake.

 

brake fluid - be sure the mechanics do a full bleed to get all the old fluid out.

 

Floaty - comes from the soft wagon springs. The front raises up as speed increases. Which also makes it light, which makes turning harder. You can make a lip/air dam with sheet metal and screw it into the bottom of the bumper edge. Its hokey, but cheap. Try an inch at time until you feel you are less floaty. Dropping the front about 1/2 inch from the rear helped quite a bit on mine (then again, I was dropped nearly 2 inches on c/o). If you have a chance to swap in the ALK from whiteline, that will help a bit. If you haven't replaced any of the suspension bits, look into a set of sway bars (which will help with the high-speed corners). The front bushings on the lower control arm have a direct effect on your steering. Also, get an alignment - try to find a race shop or your mechanics can if they have a laser system.

 

Granted, this event is significantly different from an autocross, but less so with track's intense 20 minute flat out sessions.

 

In this event, my goal is not to go flat out. More like comfortably and safely fast. And to have fun.

 

Regarding tires, yes they are all season. They are also Ultra High Performance. Suitable for flat out -- perhaps not. Comfortably fast -- probably so.

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE970AS+Pole+Position

 

I'll check on the pads.

 

Again, thanks for the feedback!

 

Deven

[boxkita]

watching a video of someone doing the narrows at 120 -

- it seems so slow. :-)

 

Definitely have to put this on the bucket list for next year. The Miata runs at 105 or so, as long as I can keep it cool. :-)

[rob-2]

In reverse order, how much are you paying for tires? The last set I had mounted used 2 grams of weight for all 4 tires, total not per wheel.

 

On an open road course if you pick up crap at speed, you have 2 options: 1) pull over & withdraw; 2) keep going. A slow leak at speed is going to play havoc with your steering. Tires that are filled with goop that moves at a different speed is going to adversely affect handling more. In a high-speed event, when you get a tire issue, if you're smart you'll drop out. If you hit something that is so big that the tire blows, no amount of goop will save you from the helicopter ride.

 

A tire pickup will do one of two things: 1) instantly deflate the tire; 2) cause a slow leak. In the first case, you're done. In second, you can ride out until your courage runs out.

 

Using goop as insurance is the wrong way. Buy a good tire, inflate properly, drive in the same general lane as everyone else, and you'll have the most likely tire incident free run.

 

If you're bombing down some random interstate traversed by all manner of vehicles and you dont carry a spare, then by all means carry goop. You can add when you get a flat. The rest of the time, you have created an opportunity for the tire to be continually out of balance.

 

As for proving your idea of using goop is not the best idea under the sun for a high-speed race, you haven't proved it is. As a matter of fact, you're not even using it, tho you claim to be doing repeated high-speed runs.

At best you're providing opinions here.

 

Goop is going in on the next set of tires - these are about done. For all the crap you've given on the topic you've not shown one valid reason not too. Your opinion is worth as much as anyone's.

 

Yup I have spent lots of time, hours on end, in the lower and middle NV with triple digit temps. Ran AC, didn't run out of fluids, and posted some personal best travel times. There are no videos for obvious reasons. It's not nearly as intensive as you make it seem.

 

While your advice thorough he's not race car.

 

In my humble opinion and experience one of the biggest issues is quality of road, after the car components I have stated.

 

I know the people doing his service and they are first rate.

[rob-2]

"That your mechanics are track/autox enthusiasts" is not good enough. Sorry, its your butt on the line. Be sure you are getting what you need to run well. Running flatout at high-speed is a whole different world than an autox event.

 

About the a/c - sorry. If you want to run fast, ditch the a/c. The car is already going to be suffering at altitude (ask doccrowley) and adding a/c will make it worse.

 

Your tire is an all season tire. Ditch that and get something suitable for high-speed running in hot weather. Michelin Pilot SuperSport, Dunlop Direzza, BFG KDW or Rival. Is 215 a stock width on your car? Also, can you get a higher load rating, like 94?

 

If you don't have alot of sustained high-speed driving (I keep harping on this as you only learn it by doing it), I'd start in the lower class. You have to maintain a min speed of 80mph. At any time you drop below that, you DQ. Your max is 124 or the pace car. Pacing the pace car is a DQ, too.

 

Driving gloves & shoes? are they nomex? Invest in nomex socks & a headsock - both are cheap and are cheap insurance.

Full face helmet - do you have a dark visor? A really dark visor will help when the sun is out. If you have any scratches on the visor, replace it.

 

cruise control works up to about 95 (it does on mine, anyway - you want to make a driving instructor mad - go ahead and set it), which might help with the tranny.

 

working out? try working out in a suana. it equates to what your in-car temp will be for most of the trip. The firewall will be really hot be the end, and your legs will be hot. I've gotten 1st degree burns thru my jeans from hot track days (think smoker - low heat for long period of time).

 

brake pads - hawk hp+ would be a good pad, or something like it. When you need to slow down, you'll want something that can work at high temps. Hawk blues would be too much. Hawk HPS would probably work, though, I found they had alot of fade after the first high-speed brake.

 

brake fluid - be sure the mechanics do a full bleed to get all the old fluid out.

 

Floaty - comes from the soft wagon springs. The front raises up as speed increases. Which also makes it light, which makes turning harder. You can make a lip/air dam with sheet metal and screw it into the bottom of the bumper edge. Its hokey, but cheap. Try an inch at time until you feel you are less floaty. Dropping the front about 1/2 inch from the rear helped quite a bit on mine (then again, I was dropped nearly 2 inches on c/o). If you have a chance to swap in the ALK from whiteline, that will help a bit. If you haven't replaced any of the suspension bits, look into a set of sway bars (which will help with the high-speed corners). The front bushings on the lower control arm have a direct effect on your steering. Also, get an alignment - try to find a race shop or your mechanics can if they have a laser system.

 

Over the top here.

 

Cruise on my 05 is 86mph.

 

Hawk pads are trash. Stop tech or xp8/10 setup. I am shocked you'd suggest such crappy pads. No one in their right night runs them for anything but street use. On the track they are horrible - he can buy better pad for the same.

[boxkita]

Over the top here.

 

Cruise on my 05 is 86mph.

 

Hawk pads are trash. Stop tech or xp8/10 setup. I am shocked you'd suggest such crappy pads. No one in their right night runs them for anything but street use. On the track they are horrible - he can buy better pad for the same.

 

I'm so sorry. I bow down to your superior knowledge. I beg your forgiveness for insulting you. I've wrapped up all my Hawk pads and thrown them in the trash.

[JmP6889928]

Hawk pads are trash. Stop tech or xp8/10 setup. I am shocked you'd suggest such crappy pads. No one in their right night runs them for anything but street use. On the track they are horrible - he can buy better pad for the same.

 

Certainly seems like an opinion to me, which you accused boxkita of having in regards to ALL of his suggestions. I currently run HP+ pads on my track car with excellent success and whether you like them or not, I could give a shit. To be honest, I'm sure Hawk doesn't give a shit whether you like them or not either.

 

As for putting sealant in tires, go ahead. You have to live with it, not me or anyone else on this thread and when it wrecks your wheels, well, can't blame us for it. Anyone stupid enough to put that shit in their tires deserves what they get. I know that tire shops LOVE it when they have to dismount something with that crap floating around there.

 

Just because you've done this type of "race" does NOT make you an expert on actually anything and it shows from your asinine remarks. Boxkita has a lot of actual track experience and his suggestions are to make sure that the race is finished with no incident. For your trip, I would suggest to you that you completely ignore every single thing he said.

[seabass07]

Rob-2 is a known idiot. I have no idea why you guys are still arguing.

[Rush600]

I can't believe I just read through all of that...

[boxkita]

Rob-2 is a known idiot. I have no idea why you guys are still arguing.

 

Because I'm channeling LALGT today. It's been 3 months since I've been in a race car and I'm jealous as hell that I don't get to do this race.

[adreyna]

Apart from what everyone else has stated, my main concern would be the car's stability at that high of speed. I'm not a racer but like going fast (driving 80-120mph over a 180mile obstacle course), and have learned that wind and the car's downforce go hand in hand. As Boxkita has said, I would invest in some aerodynamics. As many have mentioned, our cars above 100mph aren't very stable and any slight wind going that fast car be dangerous, thus more downforce would help out alot.

 

My $.02. Goodluck with the race!

[3pe]

In personal experience in time attack which is several 15 min all out hard running. I wouldn't be worried about this at all. Other than tire temps the rest of the vehicle will run cooler, only issue I would de concerned about is the alternator over charging. Although I have no experience in a Subaru auto at this speed I have ran several cars very hard on track and auto bahn for hours at a time. Only failure I have had was a alternator firing from charging hard for extended periods if not made for it. All the worry about temps in Trans or engine sounds like complete bs as the hardest part of engine use is applied at loading and wot. After that its a rpm/hour situation and load will be around 60% or so

[3pe]

For example 90% of people run 80+ for the trip to work for 30-60 min at a time with 0 issues. Once the vehicle stabilizes speed it will cruise at that area fairly nice without any issues prob around 5 psi half throttle

[Max Capacity]

I still say the 7 year old engine will run out of oil. or damn close to it.

[jp233]

I say the car will be fine if prepped decently. That is, NO coolant or oil leaks. If any oil usage is present, it better be at the tippy-top before starting this. Brake fluid and pads inspected, new brake fluid would be best at that heat but it depends on if they get used a lot/hard (like, for instance, Road America or Road Atlanta). External/extra trans and oil coolers would be good. Suspension should be tight, stock might be iffy at best and you'll be much slower with handling that you don't trust 95%. Tires need to be suitable for the track/conditions. Rubber saves your life, or can take it away. Don't F around with them. Set the car up and take copious notes. Have all the safety gear you need.

 

You could be super race-cool dude and remove the AC belt altogether.

 

Having raced motorcycles for a decade, there is one universal lesson present when doing anything off-road, closed circuit, competition or no, etc etc. EVERY TIME YOU LEAVE THE PADDOCK, BE PREPARED MENTALLY, PHYSICALLY, and FINANCIALLY TO WALK/RUN AWAY FROM A BURNING VEHICLE THAT WILL LEAVE YOU WITH NO USABLE PARTS.

[StoplightAssassin]

If you need a navigator, I hear this guy is free:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtziWbDCNNs]The Funny Side of Rallying - YouTube[/ame]

[Danteneon]

Sammy Sammy!

[RuskiTrombone]

This thread is just further proof that an LGT is not a race car. The fact that someone is worried about running their car at 110mph for less than an hour.

 

I've run minivans, suv's, 4 banger sedans at 110+ on long stretches of highway for 30 minutes plus without any issues.

 

I would hope my LGT can handle it much like my Honda Odyssey has handled it.

[BarManBean]

If you need a navigator, I hear this guy is free:

 

The Funny Side of Rallying - YouTube

 

:lol:

 

"please stay on road!"

 

"shut up you!"

[3pe]

They sell the legacy in Europe and everything there is auto bahn tested to insure it can handle the speeds just a matter of your car is up to factory spec and you can handle it

[Max Capacity]

They sell the legacy in Europe and everything there is auto bahn tested to insure it can handle the speeds just a matter of your car is up to factory spec and you can handle it

 

"factory spec's" being the key words there. Again a 7 year old engine...plus oil usage...= ______.

 

 

Have you guy's watched you oil comsumption after a couple hour drive on the highway once these cars have some age on them...or after a few day's where you drove it harder then normal...

[seabass07]

If your car burns enough oil to cause problems in 50 minutes at 110 mph, then it should probably not be on the road in the first place.

 

If you're going for 5 hours at that speed, then stop at some point and check the damned oil.