Max Capacity Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Have you shortened the head on that front banjo bolt and greased the starter shaft yet ? Also remember to grease the snout on the tranny for the TOB and the end of the snout where it slides into the pilot bearing. Have you tightened all the fuel line clamps under the intake manifold ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 OP, what do you think is the cause of your failed piston? Were you getting any misfire CEL on #4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibr_adam09 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I also added a Grimmspeed AOS to the list... I figured what the hell... already spending a shit ton of money... LOL Waste of money. Won't do jack except equalize pressure. I have one, but only cause it was $60 from a member. One day ill convert it to a catch can set-up. Good luck come install time. I just went through all this back in nov/dec 12" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Remember when I put mine back in, it took me a few minutes to figure out to jack up the back of the car to help line up the input shaft of the tranny. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Have you shortened the head on that front banjo bolt and greased the starter shaft yet ? Also remember to grease the snout on the tranny for the TOB and the end of the snout where it slides into the pilot bearing. Have you tightened all the fuel line clamps under the intake manifold ? It will be a little while before I have to worry about all of this... But yes I did grind down that banjo bolt so that should work out better as far as being able to remove it in the future... I also ordered a TSK3 kit so I will actually have to install that before doing any grease.. I did that last time when I did my original clutch kit and it's time to fix the snout now. The Intake assy is in 100 pieces on my table so no I haven't double checked any of those lines yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 OP, what do you think is the cause of your failed piston? Were you getting any misfire CEL on #4? Not really sure, could have been the 19PSI on stock 156k mile setup... But yes I had been getting multiple various miss fires for over a year now on cold startup only though. Sometimes it did tend to be only 4, I was in the process of chasing it down by doing intake gaskets, I was going to send my injectors out and I had swapped coils and plugs around to see if it followed anything. Then this happened. My LV on my tune did not have any KR in any high load locations so honestly I don't know the true root cause of this. I also had my injectors cleaned and they all had a 10 out of 10 spray pattern already and were at 586 min for flow, only bumped up to 588 overall after cleaning, so that wasn't the issue either. Waste of money. Won't do jack except equalize pressure. I have one, but only cause it was $60 from a member. One day ill convert it to a catch can set-up. Good luck come install time. I just went through all this back in nov/dec 12" Everyone has their own differing opinion, I hear people saying the AOS is good others stating what you are, but honestly I am just giving it a shot to see what happens, If it works, great, if not... I'll get a cheap catch can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 You didn't just lift the intake at the TGV's to Heads as a unit? Pull the TB cooling lines a few connectors may be, the six bolts and lift it off. I think you saw the picture of mine in my thread. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Just to catch up. how are the heads doing ? Valves ok ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Last I heard he was supposed to have everything done today but no call... So I can assume that means its not complete but also if he's not calling with bad news then the heads and valves should be fine. When I dropped them off the guy looked at them quickly and said they should be just fine, nothing was bent and since the piston pieces didn't do any real damage to the head itself I can't imagine it was anywhere near hard enough to hurt the valve or the seat... it probably got mashed if anything. And yes I pulled the intake and TVG's as a unit but it was FULL of oil, so I had to pull the whole assembly apart and clean everything, as well as pull the injectors and send them out for cleaning. I have 2 huge boxes being delivered today from FBP... but obviously until I get the block I can't do much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Ok, so here I was getting all worried that forged was not the best route to go because everyone saying their car gets noisy after because of the HUGE clearance difference between the two types of pistons. Honestly I don't know what people are smoking and why they thing .003 is "huge" clearance, Factory Subaru spec is .0004 to -.0004 I don't know how it can be an interference fit but I guess .001 isn't enough to cause an issue, But either way I highly doubt that .002" is what will cause excess noise, and if it is then I would have to think the bores are too big and its out of that clearance range by too much. On to my project... I hope to get a phone call today on my machine parts. I did get all my ordered stuff last night from FBP http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh201/3400modified/Leggy/20130514_165323_zps6a8776e7.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 On page 1710 in the 05 service manual. Piston clearence = -0.00039" - 0.000039" How can it be a minus number? If I read that right, you want basically max clearence of 0.000195" per side on the piston ? I think that's pretty tight. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 wait yeah your right... I was reading my notes wrong, it was listed at -.0004 to .0004 so rounded up from your 39. And yes that is damn tight especially if it is a negative number which is an interference fit... Just pound on the piston with a rubber mallet, it will loosen up after about 2k miles lol... Either way I think that .0015 on each side of the piston for clearance is not the cause of excess noise when using forged pistons, its 1.3 thousands of an inch difference on each side 2.6 total, google that and see how small that is... LOL... But we'll see when I get mine all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 If you want, I can email my buddy Mark Eastwood and see what he thinks for a sanity check or you could call him at 860 749 2903. I recall he said they had a way to keep these thing quiet with forged pistons. Here's Marks email, his brother Mike normally get's all the eamils first. eamsc@sbcglobal.net web site, http://www.eastwoodsautomachine.com/ Just tell him I gave you his name and number. You should have my full name on the email from the other week. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 I'm going to double check with my machinist when I get a call about it, I'll give him the bore spec on my piston sheet which is 3.927 and the pistons are 3.924 and see what he says. Either way I don't think the noise will bother me if there is any. I would think the only way to quite them down would be to do a skirt coating but then I would think you would have to take that thickness into consideration when sizing... then after that wears off you'd have worse clearance... LOL I may just leave it as it is and match what CP says to do, and I know if the fit is a bit tight it's not the end of the world since I will not be running this thing under excessively high load/long WOT duration and excess heat which is where most of the clearance numbers come into play big time. Now for ring gap I have numbers of .0215 for the top ring and .0255-.0295 for the second ring... That's using CP's chart for Turbo applications. Sound good? Their formula is (Bore in Inch) x .0055" for top and second is .004"-.008" larger than top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 There is a thread the talks about the OEM ring gap may be to tight. It may have been in this thread earlier on. I would go towards the larger end of the ring end gap. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Yeah the turbo application has the largest top ring gap, the others are bore x .0045" for street/hi performance, and bore x .005" for drag racing road racing. I was thinking of doing the .0215 for the top then .0275 for the second so its right in the middle of their range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Maybe this is the reason for the "noise" From NASIOC so take it how you want... This was a call to Weisco Good choice on the pistions. I believe they (wiseco) are the only ones made for subarus that have an offset wrist pin. (like the factory pistions) This should help with some of the noise that you hear in other subaru engines with aftermarket forged pistions. Funny you mention that. I had to call their tech line yesterday with various questions. I asked him about noise from the pistons pre-expansion and if the 4 thou wall clearance might be too much. He replied that noise was a function more of skirt design (or lack there of) and wrist pin off set. He said the Wiescos were typically quiter because of this so we'll see. You know I wonder why no else is running these on nasioc. I searched and out of more than 80k members looks like I'm the only one? On a side note, the piston rings that they sent were pefectly matched. I measured each top and second ring inside the cylinders and eveyone one measured a perfect .016 gap (they recommend .04 for every inch of dameter). Todd Measured the CP's and they do not have a wrist pin offset. I can only assume that the OEM ones do, otherwise they wouldn't have indexing dots on the ring lands to show which side faces forward. And after reading that whole thread quoted above, he also has "loud pistons" so I guess that throws the whole offset pin idea out the window... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Yeah the turbo application has the largest top ring gap, the others are bore x .0045" for street/hi performance, and bore x .005" for drag racing road racing. I was thinking of doing the .0215 for the top then .0275 for the second so its right in the middle of their range. I would think about going to the larger end of the ring gap... May be PM Nrw, BAC5.2, GTTuner and see what they think ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 So why are the valve reliefs so much deeper? I asked Ryan at FBP if this is normal for CP to be -.250 deep. http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh201/3400modified/20130515_130306_zps3ac3fd78.jpg If not I'm going to have them exchanged for a set that's not cut as far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Call CP instead. If the piston deck is thicker, by design, the deeper valve pockets will cure the interferance fit engine problem... Think about it. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Think I found my answer... these are a EJ257 WRX STI application... yes they will still fit but I think they are recessed a bit further for something that's different on the STI. They are also 8.2CR vs 8.4CR I think.... Only pistons specific for a EJ255 are the SC7410's which are .5mm overbore Oie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 For higher lift cams. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 That's what I was guessing. I guess there is no harm in using them, and that means I can get higher lift cams without worry later... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Rofl 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 20, 2013 Author Share Posted May 20, 2013 Well had some slight issues with the Machine shop... I was not happy with the bore and we also had some problems with the deck surface. He has since decked the block .004" the spec that Subaru states can be removed to flatten it, and he is also going to a 100mm bore because there was still a mark left from where the piston blew up. One half was decked on Friday of last week and the other half should be done and he should be moving on to the bore and hone soon. I hope to have the block and heads back by Wed, maybe Thurs... During the head rebuild he said one of the exhaust valves was really bad and took a lot of grinding to clean it up. He ended up replacing all exhaust valves because of that but if that was on cylinder 4 then the bad seat would have caused a decent exhaust leak into the cylinder which would act as a vac leak explaining my miss fire and also the possibility to going lean which would cause all of this. I need to verify which valve was on 4 when I get them all back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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