B-BGTLimited Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Current Parts list Coolant Crossover Pipe PN 21328AA011 Crossover Hoses PN 807611031 PVC S pipe PN 99071AD140 Oil Return hose PN 807515712 ACL Main Bearings STD size ACL Rod Bearings STD size 07 Gasket Kit 11mm EJ25 Oil Pump Gates Racing Timing belt kit FX100 Clutch kit TSK3 Kit CP Forged EJ25 Pistons 8.2 CR .25mm overbore Right Inner timing cover PN 13573AA131 Killer-B Oil Pickup tube So yes getting the 11mm pump... Its off the block there is no reason to put a 154k mile pump back on there especially not when the new one is only $135 Every part I can take apart and thoroughly clean will be getting that process done... I have my own cleaning tank so yeah I'll be pulling apart the oil cooler and such to see if anything is in there, but the small mesh of the pickup screen should have prevented anything large from getting sucked up. I'm going to see if I can find a subie oil flow chart today to see which way it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Best I could find... and seeing how the oil goes in the outside of the filter first and then to the engine through the center that means it goes to the cooler first, then to the engine. http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/attachments/head-gasket-issues/24421d1343060638-oil-top-engine-2005-oil-flow-2005.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiche Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Yes, and the oil cooler is notorious for trapping chunks of metal in its convoluted passageways, and it gradually escapes after one's rebuild, slowly reintroducing chunks into your oil filter... Your oil filter should catch that stuff, but because oil filters are of a bypass design (so they won't splode when internal filter pressure is too high) the oil filter's internal bypass valve does occasionally open, allowing that nasty stuff to go right around the filter element and into your engine This is primarily why the little banjo bolt filters ever get crud in them (if the oil filter were active 100% of the time the banjo filters would never trap anything, but alas, this is not the case) So since you've seen chunks in your oil pickup tube screen, you should probably replace your oil cooler too. And it would be a good idea to at least clean those banjo filters, and note that the crud gets stuck *inside* those filters, not on the outside. Or remove them if you prefer. Either way, use a good oil filter with the proper bypass valve psi rating, like oem. Some (not all) aftermarket oil filters will open their bypass valve at *half* the pressure of the oem spec - not good. BtSsm - Android app/Bluetooth adapter. LV, logging, gauges and more. For 05-14 Legacy (GT, 2.5, 3.0, 3.6), 02-14 WRX, 04-14 STi, 04-14 FXT, 05-09 OBXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 So what your telling me is I should replace my oil cooler too and then I have to use only Napa gold 7712 filters OR the other Toko roki or whatever it is oem one that everyone says to use over the factory Subaru filter otherwise I'm gambling with the life of my engine? I will clean my Cooler and probably use the filters I have been since I have not had any oiling issues at all, the bearings on my setup looked fine and you could still see crosshatch in the other cylinders. I will probably use the 7712 filters for break in to ensure any metal from that process it caught in the filter and not flushed back during a cold start up, but then again I use 5w30 oil as stated to, so I highly doubt the bypass valve even if not at 23psi is getting activated during a cold start up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiche Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Just offering advice, not threatening that your rods will fly through your fenders if you use the wrong oil filter. So in your case you had metal in your oil and it didn't get by the filter. Great! That was the case with me too! However, there are countless posts here about damaged bearings and clogged banjo filters that always make me ask "how is this stuff getting by the oil filter?" BtSsm - Android app/Bluetooth adapter. LV, logging, gauges and more. For 05-14 Legacy (GT, 2.5, 3.0, 3.6), 02-14 WRX, 04-14 STi, 04-14 FXT, 05-09 OBXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Oh I agree and would wonder the same thing but currently I didn't see any debris in any of the Banjo filters and I still have both in place. I'll be cleaning them as suggested and how I did in the past as well, and Yeah I understand you were giving advice and I appreciate it but I do see a lot of people on here really pushing that the oil filter is complete garbage if its not an OEM one or states that it has a 23psi bypass valve. I agree that ones with the bypass on the base of the filter is a bad idea unless that is screened somehow because large debris can get through that from the oil washing down the filter media. But the dam 7712 filter is itty bitty, and I can't see how that is going to filter anything for 3k miles... Hell the filter on my tractor is bigger! I would like to find a filter that can be had locally that has the base sealed and the bypass at the top and possibly the 23psi spring but I don't think that's as critical if the valve is not at the foot of the filter, OH and also has enough media to actually filter the oil for a long duration, that's actually why I switched to the longer Purolator filter but no where can you find specs on the bypass spring psi anymore... or at least I can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 If your going to keep the banjo filters, I'd cut the head down on the front one so you can remove it later on. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 You make a good point but isn't it the timing cover thats in the way? I would have to double check when I get my parts back but I can't remember. But it hasn't been removed in 154k and honestly when I pulled it there was hardly anything in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 HAMMERDOWN has the post with pictures, just grind down the head , check it out before you put the cams on. See if you can remove it with the rear cam cover installed. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Found the info, I'll see what I can do when I start to go back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Also reading many mixed reviews or thoughts on doing the 11mm oil pump... Opinions? http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/upgrade-oil-pump-11mm-08-sti-design-worth-iti-186773p2.html I'm going to pull mine apart tonight and see if there is anything wrong with it... if not I may just re-use it. I still have a stock pump on my Beretta and that's turning 12's with a 100 shot of spray and I've never had any oiling issues so I guess I can relate to the statements of the stock pumps typically being sufficient or properly scaled for what they are providing oil too, its only when you add additional stuff to the oiling system that you should upgrade. Also makes sense that the 08 STI setup is larger for the dual AVCS vs my single Intake AVCS Setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 FWIW, We used the stock Honda oil pump (216,000miles on it) that was shimmed for higher pressure in our race engine. If your's is clean, re-use it. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Well after further review there is absolutely no need to replace the oil pump... This thing is such a simple operation there is no way its going to fail unless its extremely worn out which mine is not. So no 11mm oil pump for me. Now onto the cooler, I was cleaning it out and there were pieces of piston falling out of it, so I think that's taking the place of the oil pump on my parts list GRRRR! just when I think I can save some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 You have to look at it as putting the oil pump $$$ towards the oil cooler, that way it's only costing you about 1/2...sorry, I'm a optimist. But thanks, driving into to work today, I was wondering how you made out over the weekend ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Yeah I got what your saying but at this point the bill just keeps rising, it's hard to have a full positive outlook, especially when my wife's car is still sitting at the body shop awaiting appraisal and the damn state police have still yet to change the police report to not making her at fault... Right now I'm just spinning my tires and getting a whole lot of nothing done which is fustrating. Still waiting to hear from the machine shop so I can even order parts from FBP... I'd like to get that order in BEFORE I get the block back, that way I wont be waiting long when I do get the machine parts. And on top of that my Beretta engine is just sitting in front of it waiting for the headers to return... and that was a shit show getting them to the place... I used the addy on their price sheet which happened to be the wrong one, so UPS took 3 days when it should have been a next day delivery being in CT. So yeah... I guess its a 50% off Oil cooler now that I don't need the pump... LOL All the parts are clean now... Also sending out my fuel injectors... I hope that's a quick turnaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 It's hard to play the "waiting game". It will all come together soon. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 I also added a Grimmspeed AOS to the list... I figured what the hell... already spending a shit ton of money... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 ROFL...I need to get off my butt and order a DP for my 09...before they add sale tax to on-line purchases... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 Ok well got a call from the machine shop. Block is .25mm overbore so I ordered the pistons, Everything should be done from him by Tuesday he said so I hope to have all of my parts come in by Wednesday maybe Thursday if Ryan got all the OEM parts I need by now to ship to me. Once I start to dig in on this thing I'll try to take as many pics as possible. I also have a Bore gauge coming and borrowing a micrometer so I can measure each piston, which I expect all to be the same size or at least damn close, and best fit them to the bores for the necessary clearance. We'll see how that goes... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Wait a minute, there not going to bore each cylinder to each piston ? I thought it was prefered to match the bore to the piston. But I guess if you don't have the time to wait for that... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 No he is not boring each cylinder to match the pistons. When I first called him I stated that shouldn't he need the pistons before doing the bore, but his reply was yes maybe back in the day where pistons would vary a good amount, but today the tolerances are held much tighter and there shouldn't be any issues. I had the same thing done with my old red Beretta, I just bought .030 over pistons and had him do the bore, and that being hypereutectic I just dropped them in and didn't even double check. Never had any issues with it at all, once again not forged but... Now if you notice this is why I bought a bore gauge and I'm borrowing a Micrometer... If the piston and bore does not fit into the specified tolerance the piston is requiring (I'm shooting for in the middle of the allowed tolerance rather than closer to max as a race build would) then I will yes have to quite possibly return the .25mm pistons and order the .50mm ones if the bore is too large and have the block re-sized after getting the new pistons to ensure it doesn't happen again OR if it's too tight then I'll bring the block back to him and ask him to fix it to fit the specified tolerance... I was a bit skeptical when he told me he doesn't need the pistons and it's exactly why I bought the bore gauge. So we'll see and I'll let you know if the block is going back to him or not... LOL God I hope not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I understand. That was a sanity check. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 Oh yeah, I hear ya. I did the same thing when he told me that and that is why I'm getting the gauge because if they are not in the proper tolerance he will be shown and fixing the issue and matching cylinders to the new pistons the next time... lol and probably for free... haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 I splurged and orderd a $17 t-shirt that will go well with this build... http://www.maperformance.com/images/D/gilltees_OvernightPartsJapanBlue2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 Also big thanks to Fred Beans Parts and Ryan for hooking me up with this list of parts... OEM 07 Oil Cooler PN 21311AA051 GrimmSpeed Air / Oil Separator Coolant Crossover Pipe PN 21328AA011 Crossover Hoses PN 807611031 PVC S pipe PN 99071AD140 Oil Return hose PN 807515712 ACL Main Bearings STD size ACL Rod Bearings STD size 07 Gasket Kit Gates Racing Timing belt kit FX100 Clutch kit TSK3 Kit CP Forged EJ25 Pistons 8.2 CR .25mm overbore Right Inner timing cover PN 13573AA131 Killer-B Oil Pickup tube My Discover is smoking quite a bit less than it would have if I didn't order from them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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