ECU/Stuttering Follow-Ups

[HansGT]

do you think it's worth the reflash by SOA or just do the AP stage 1?

 

any one do an AP stage 1....un marry....had SOA reflash....get it back then do the AP again?

[HansGT]

"chuckscum value" does that change too when you unhook the battery and hook it up again? Just wondering they catch you can you use that as an excuse? Or does that number only change with a re-flash.

 

Diagnostic's is simply plugging in the Subaru Scan Tool and filling out a ECM Fact Sheet that includes the ECM's CID #. Then that sheet gets faxed to SOA's Tech Line, once this is faxed it's usually a couple of hours before the Tech Line responds, if the car is eligible for a reflash they fax back authorization & shipping info to the dealer. The dealer can't ship it until they get authorization.

 

The dealer's diagnostic currently would not be able to detect the Accessport (or ECUtek, etc) had been installed...however if the reflash center runs a full inspection of the ECM before they reflash it they will be able to tell as anytime programming info is "re-written" it changes a checksum value in the ECM. Not sure if they really check though as they are flashing them.

 

Normal turn-around time is 3 days (so if yours went out today, your car should be ready by Wednesday afternoon).

 

Mine gets shipped out tomorrow.

[Legacy05]

yeah I am taking my car in friday, my service rep swears that there is "no reflash" out yet for the car. That one is in the "works" but it has to be approved by some board due to emissions .. yadda yadda ... does the service rep call the tech line? Or do I instruct him to have the tech call the tech line??? What exactly do I need to say??? "Here, let me dial the number for you? " heh .. when I am just stopped in traffic, this rough idle is starting to drive me nuts.

[OCDetails]

OCD, how many miles have you put on it since the reflash?

 

do you think it will re-appear after a day or two? Keep us updated.

 

I've got about 20 miles on it so far. I'm going to keep a close watch on it for the next tank or two. If it doesn't come back in the next 1000 or 1500 miles then I am going to assume it is fixed. It is so much better at this point that it could backslide a ton without it ever getting as bad as it was before.

[HansGT]

do you think it's worth the reflash by SOA or just do the AP stage 1?

 

any one do an AP stage 1....un marry....had SOA reflash....get it back then do the AP again?

 

 

anyone?

 

Would the AP just fix the problem?

 

Doesn't seem like SOA is going to make the issue a "recall".

[TSiWRX]

Han'sGT,

 

Look in the "New AP Maps" thread - *currently*, AP does not seem to completely solve the problem of "stutter/studder," which seems to recur after between 300 to 500 miles after AP Base Map reflashes.

[unorthodox]

The service writer at Grand Prix, in Hicksville NY, denied everything. He was like "Oh you herd bthis on the board right?" Meanwhile the logic upgrade exists, I guess I just made it up!

 

I called Subaru and the person told me the car has to have a engine light and a specific malfunction code to get the reflash.....WTF. Needless to say the Tech could not verify the studdering, no surprise there!!! I guess I'm just imagining it :-)

 

I then went to the NHTSA site and posted a complaint.

 

It amazes me how dealer service dept's can be so f-ed up when it comes to taking care of their customers cars. They are getting paid so what's the problem!

 

I complained about squeeling rear brakes, they said they fixed it and within 5 minutes of leaving the shop they were squeeling even louder.

 

I complained about weak a/c, especially at idle when its really hot, and weird temp fluctuations (cold/warm/cold warm). They say the system is running as per specs......WTF. Am I just imagining things, I think not!

 

Pissed,

Shawn

[HansGT]

Han'sGT,

 

Look in the "New AP Maps" thread - *currently*, AP does not seem to completely solve the problem of "stutter/studder," which seems to recur after between 300 to 500 miles after AP Base Map reflashes.

 

crap.

[deimos]

The service writer at Grand Prix, in Hicksville NY, denied everything. He was like "Oh you herd bthis on the board right?" Meanwhile the logic upgrade exists, I guess I just made it up!

 

I called Subaru and the person told me the car has to have a engine light and a specific malfunction code to get the reflash.....WTF. Needless to say the Tech could not verify the studdering, no surprise there!!! I guess I'm just imagining it :-)

 

I then went to the NHTSA site and posted a complaint.

 

It amazes me how dealer service dept's can be so f-ed up when it comes to taking care of their customers cars. They are getting paid so what's the problem!

 

I complained about squeeling rear brakes, they said they fixed it and within 5 minutes of leaving the shop they were squeeling even louder.

 

I complained about weak a/c, especially at idle when its really hot, and weird temp fluctuations (cold/warm/cold warm). They say the system is running as per specs......WTF. Am I just imagining things, I think not!

 

Pissed,

Shawn

 

This is called "Subaru Service" dont you love it! "There is no problem", "we've 'fixed' the problem", "this is normal operation"..... Bahhh, theyre great at the sell, after that they dont seem to give a rats ass...

[Blaze]

..."it's not a bug, it's a feature" hehe

[Deer Killer]

..."it's not a bug, it's a feature" hehe

It's subaru's new whiplash protection system. You see, the stutter causes you to exercise your neck muscles to keep your head straight, so you are less likely to have whiplash in case of an accident.

[OCDetails]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the solution to the stutter was directly tied to the disabling of the DRLs and the seat belt chime? Plug it all back in and maybe the stutter will go away. Or maybe try disabling the stutter with some other fancy combination of brake tapping and horn honking with the key in the 'on' position.

[emlevins]

I took my car in to New Motors in Erie, PA to have some service work done (on Tuesday) and asked that they make arrangements to have the reflash done. Because of folks on this board and the posts, I easily convinced them to call SOA tech line and make the arrangements. They did and I pick it up this evening. I'll post reactions from time to time.

 

I am not particularly optimistic...

[HansGT]

It really must not be a big deal to SOA. Seems that no dealerships know about it. Hunt Valley Subaru, MD had no idea what I was talking about and I spoke with the shop manager. They weren't even concerned, didn't even ask me to bring it in to look at it. In my opinon it's just a design flaw and they want to brush it under the carpet.

 

Currious if anyone with an '06 GT (minus the catted UP) has the same studddering/stuttering issue?

 

I'm not bothering with a reflash....my idle is fine and I only have the "surge" rarely with just the right amount of gas. I'm afraid I'll pick up my GT and it will have a Forester ECU!

[DrGT]

First notice that I am in Canada and there is no TSB nor email of any kind here as far as I know.

 

I showed the info from Opie to my local tech manager and he showed it to someone in Subaru Canada. That was about a month ago.

 

Last week, he called me saying that he can do the reflash AT THE DEALERSHIP! But he had to return the device that makes the reflash very soon and couldn't keep it for now (?????).

 

Anyway, I had it reflashed and a few days later, I am very happy I did.

The engine feels a lot smoother, the stutter has been diminished by ~ 80% (which is ok to me) and the car feels as powerful as before.

 

Anyone else with reflash in Canada?

[peterwillett]

Just thought I would share this interesting develpoment and seek opinions.

I am running stock GT except for AP St 1 93, I bought the AP to help with the stuttering problem which is awful on my car, the AP got rid of 70-80 % of the problem. Last week I filled up with 89 octane as an experiment. I noticed an immediate improvement in reduction in stuttering and now (300 miles later) it is almost completely gone and the car is running very nicely. I have not changed the AP map.

Has any one else tried this ? am I liable to do any damage ? (my instinct says that this set up has got to be better for the car than the stuttering was). Just thought I would solicit opinions and encourage others to try this out to see if it helps

 

P

[rallispec]

Just thought I would share this interesting develpoment and seek opinions.

I am running stock GT except for AP St 1 93, I bought the AP to help with the stuttering problem which is awful on my car, the AP got rid of 70-80 % of the problem. Last week I filled up with 89 octane as an experiment. I noticed an immediate improvement in reduction in stuttering and now (300 miles later) it is almost completely gone and the car is running very nicely. I have not changed the AP map.

Has any one else tried this ? am I liable to do any damage ? (my instinct says that this set up has got to be better for the car than the stuttering was). Just thought I would solicit opinions and encourage others to try this out to see if it helps

 

P

 

dude, you're running a map, specifically designed for 93 octane and putting in 89 octane? First off, your ECU is pulling timing and you're losing power, and running way less aggressively than designed - which is probably why you dont' feel the studder.

 

At least load the 91octane map so you dont F up your A/F ratios and other stuff too much... BUt my instict says that I wouldnt risk it.

 

ALso, which AP maps are you running -- the lastest revisions reduced the studder a lot.

[Opie]

After driving my car since Friday after getting the reflash here are my observations:

 

The car has a much smoother power delivery, much easier and livable on the street but still very fast. I have not felt any re-occurance of the shudder yet. And the car doesn't feel down on any power.

 

Overall, I'm very glad I had it done. My next two questions will be how does it affect my fuel economy (I'll check this over my next few fill-ups). And how does is affect HP (I'll check this on the dyno in the next few weeks and compre the numbers to my prevoius runs).

[malimx6]

I'm also in Canada and I think I felt this stuttering issue. I only have about 1500km on my car. I picked it up just over 2 weeks ago, and I also experianced that stereo volume going up and down issue. I'm really getting pissed of because my closest dealership is 200km away from me!!!! I'm just afraid that I'll drive there FOR NOTHING, because that's how it usually is!!!

 

Dr. Dre>> which dealership did you go to, to get this issue resolved?

I'm wayyyy down in Windsor, ON, and we dont even have Subaru dealership

[peterwillett]

dude, you're running a map, specifically designed for 93 octane and putting in 89 octane? First off, your ECU is pulling timing and you're losing power, and running way less aggressively than designed - which is probably why you dont' feel the studder.

 

At least load the 91octane map so you dont F up your A/F ratios and other stuff too much... BUt my instict says that I wouldnt risk it.

 

ALso, which AP maps are you running -- the lastest revisions reduced the studder a lot.

 

 

rallispec - thanks for the input - I am running v1.10 which I believe is the latest. To follow up your coment - the car is NOT down on power running on 89, if anything I would say it is pulling stronger. will switch to the 91 map anyway and see what happens

 

P

[Sphinx002]

I've been waiting and waiting in the wings for SOA do find a fix and this morining decided to try the reflash, so I called Village Subaru in Acton, and just like every time I've called, got curtesy and respect as well as knowledge. Yes we are aware of the issue, we've been shipping them off to New Jersey Mr. Abrams. We need you car. Can you please drop it off on Friday to find out if it one with the problem. Folks these people are just awesome, replaced my stinky clutch first time I came to them and now this. If you are ANYWHERE near Mass, come see these guys. Unreal what others have to go through, there are still good dealers out there.

[smkscrn]

I just want to post a quick thought/question to everyone out there who has had their SOA re-flash and STILL notices a stutter, whether it be better or worse:

 

Has anyone gone back to your dealer since the re-flash and notified them that the problem (stutter) is still present and noticable? If so, what have they said? If not, why....and do you think they would take any action?

 

Just curious....b/c I honestly cannot remember the last time a car that was built for performance had an engine, computer, etc performance flaw that actually could'nt be FIXED or dealt with directly.

 

Just throwin' it out there....dont think we deserve our cars to have to do this.

 

Joe

[mwiener2]

Just thought I would share this interesting develpoment and seek opinions.

I am running stock GT except for AP St 1 93, I bought the AP to help with the stuttering problem which is awful on my car, the AP got rid of 70-80 % of the problem. Last week I filled up with 89 octane as an experiment.

P

 

 

You are seriously endangering your engine. By doing this you are actually causing alot of people problems. You are going to end up damaging your engine and then complain to the dealer. They are going to figure out you had engine managment and will void your warranty. Then it gives the tuner world a bad rap.

 

So you, your delaership, SOA, and the tuner community are all now pissed.

 

 

If gas was such a problem for you, you should've saved your $650 and put it towards buying the proper grade gas and not towards power.

 

 

 

On another note: I got the subaru re-flash a month or two ago. It definatly help alot, but it was still noticeable. Now I got the AP and am running stage one.Stutter is just about gone. Much better than the SOA re-flash.

[Peale]

I just want to post a quick thought/question to everyone out there who has had their SOA re-flash and STILL notices a stutter, whether it be better or worse:

 

Has anyone gone back to your dealer since the re-flash and notified them that the problem (stutter) is still present and noticable? If so, what have they said? If not, why....and do you think they would take any action?

 

Just curious....b/c I honestly cannot remember the last time a car that was built for performance had an engine, computer, etc performance flaw that actually could'nt be FIXED or dealt with directly.

 

Just throwin' it out there....dont think we deserve our cars to have to do this.

 

Joe

 

Mine is just as bad after the upgrade, and I definitely want it fixed. Actually the service rep at the dealership has the same problem in his car, so I think he is interested in getting this done as well. Problem is Subaru has their hands tied a bit because they can't change emissions and from what I have heard the 2006 ECM does not work in the 2005. They have been "shaking the tree" at Subaru, so lets see what develops. The 2006 also has the surging problem but to a lesser degree, sad, it's a great car otherwise.

 

/t

[emlevins]

I took my car in to New Motors in Erie, PA to have some service work done (on Tuesday) and asked that they make arrangements to have the reflash done. Because of folks on this board and the posts, I easily convinced them to call SOA tech line and make the arrangements. They did and I pick it up this evening. I'll post reactions from time to time.

 

I am not particularly optimistic...

 

Here is my reaction, as promised, after 400 miles or so on the SOA "fix":

 

I now have about 400 miles on Pearl since she had the SOA reflash done to "fix" the studdering. Previously, my studder was most noticeable in 3rd gear just under 4K rpm (many others have it more frequently in 2nd around 2500 rpms or so).

 

First, the bad:

 

- The car continues to studder. I have experienced the studder in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears and anywhere between 2-4K rpms.

 

- The stutter seems to be more noticeable now in 2nd around 2500-3K rpms than it had ever been before

 

Now the good:

 

- Overall, the car seems to studder LESS frequently, and when it does stutter, it is seemingly a MILDER stutter.

 

- Though I was previously able to consistently induce the stutter in 3rd gear around 3800 rpms or so, I am generally UNABLE to do so now. Yes, it has stuttered in 3rd, but it is infrequent, inconsistent, and not easily induceable.

 

- Power delivery seems smoother.

 

- The car seems quicker (though I doubt it really is).

 

Bottom line - this seems to be an improvement rather than a fix. I am glad I did it and the car is better with it than it was without it. However, many with the AP have said that the AP cures about 70-80% of the studdering. I would say that this SOA "fix" has done about as well.

 

DISCLAIMER - this is a status report as of 400 miles. Things may change as I pile on the miles.

 

(COMMENT AND TWO) QUESTIONS - When cruising at 70mph in 5th, I am running right at 3K rpm. Though the car accelerates smoothly and quickly from 70-80, it consistently *feels* less torquey than before the reflash and I am forever wanting to drop down in gear.

 

Is 3K rpm about right for 70mph in 5th (I don't remember what it was before the reflash)?

 

Has anyone who has done the SOA "fix" noticed a change in torque "feel"?

 

 

BTW - I first (mistakenly) posted this reaction in the following thread : http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=277442#post277442

 

Sorry for the double post .