Throwout bearing failure on ACT HDSS kit after 15k mi.

[Underdog]

... but the PP has nothing to do with the CSC pushing the TOB onto the PP.

 

I would caution against absolutes here. While the PP doesn't cause the CSC to push the fork/TOB, the PP could easily be occupying the correct free-state position of the TOB for any number of reasons (bent/warped fingers come to mind). The CSC can't "pull" back the fork and further than it returns naturally. The TOB won't return any further than the PP pushes it. You don't want too much clearance between the TOB and PP or you have to take up that gap before engaging the clutch. You don't want the CSC to retract away from the fork or you will have more contamination and wear on the contact area of the CSC and fork. See what I mean?

[Nolmers06LGT]

I would caution against absolutes here. While the PP doesn't cause the CSC to push the fork/TOB, the PP could easily be occupying the correct free-state position of the TOB for any number of reasons (bent/warped fingers come to mind).

 

That makes sense, but if you depress the CSC all the way to the limit and allow it to extend, it doesn't stop until it's fully extended. To me, that means that even with a different pressure plate the TOB would be forced to contact the CSC.

 

The CSC can't "pull" back the fork and further than it returns naturally. The TOB won't return any further than the PP pushes it. You don't want too much clearance between the TOB and PP or you have to take up that gap before engaging the clutch. You don't want the CSC to retract away from the fork or you will have more contamination and wear on the contact area of the CSC and fork. See what I mean?

 

Yes, all of that makes sense to me. I understand wanting to minimize the clearance or free space between the PP and TOB, but I would also think that you would only want to spin the TOB when actuating the clutch. I've never heard of another car where the TOB is constantly spinning.

 

So I understand that the CSC's internal spring is meant to keep the rod in contact with the fork, but I can't wrap my head around why there wouldn't be ANY clearance between the TOB and PP.

 

Sadly, I'm starting to come to the realization that my PP fingers are bent. GT Tuner, you win. I wanted to exhaust all other possibilities first because I don't have the time/money to invest in replacing the clutch.

[Underdog]

If your clutch pedal is not on the floor your CSC should not be extending fully. That would indicate an issue to me.

[Nolmers06LGT]

If your clutch pedal is not on the floor your CSC should not be extending fully. That would indicate an issue to me.

 

That's good to know. I can compress it, and it will extend fully, regardless of the pedal position. Maybe the CSC is the problem after all. I might as well go ahead and replace it- If that doesn't work, I'm not out too much $$.

[Nolmers06LGT]

After replacing the slave cylinder, I've accepted the fact that my problem is in my pressure plate. The clutch actuation is smooth now, and there is no vibration accompanying the rattle. If it doesn't progress to a vibration, I'm not going to replace it yet. Hopefully it holds out until I can buy a new clutch.

 

I think that I'll sell my ACT Streetlite flywheel when I pull the clutch, but I haven't decided on a clutch kit. I was under the impression that the ACT clutch was decent- Now I'm not sure where to look. Any suggestions?

[m sprank]

ClutchMaters or Competetion Clutch. If wanting to go with a SMFW (OEM) then Clutch Masters.

[Nolmers06LGT]

ClutchMaters or Competetion Clutch. If wanting to go with a SMFW (OEM) then Clutch Masters.

 

I read all of the reviews on the Clutchmasters FX350; They sound pretty positive. I'm definitely doing the OEM SMFW. I was going to live with the LWFW, but there's no point if I'm already pulling the clutch. Best case, I can sell it without losing too much.

[m sprank]

No long term 350 use yet and we have conflicting data on the clutch from CM. CM advertising states the clutch is for DD use. Call CM and speak with a engineer and you get told they are Track Duty Only but can be driven to the track, not a DD. Time will tell.

[BarManBean]

No long term 350 use yet and we have conflicting data on the clutch from CM. CM advertising states the clutch is for DD use. Call CM and speak with a engineer and you get told they are Track Duty Only but can be driven to the track, not a DD. Time will tell.

 

What does this mean, exactly? That it's not "comfortable" for DD duty or that DD duty is going to wear it out?

[m sprank]

I am assuming here, because I did not get into a detailed discussion with the engineer, but my assumption is that the clutch is not comfortable for DD use. We have yet to install one at the shop (FX250 or 350)

[Underdog]

FWIW, I have installed and test driven one and found it to be much lighter in pedal effort than my ACT HD. I would put pedal effort on par with the '07+ OEM clutch kits I have installed.

 

I did find it to be grabby/chattery during what I consider to be normal take-off. This has been reported by more than a couple people, and the trend seems to be that it settles down during break-in. I also found giving it a few more revs would help.

 

I haven't tested their holding capacity, as I have only driven it new.

 

Nick, does your new CSC still fully extend when not constrained by the fork?

[BarManBean]

I can tell you right now that my stock OBXT clutch is not comfortable for daily use due to pedal effort, lol. I'm virtually certain that whatever goes in next will be easier on my left leg.

 

It really doesn't bother me that much since it's what I'm used to, but when I get in my friends 2012 WRX the clutch takes considerably less effort to modulate (to the tune of 3-5x less effort at the very least).

[m sprank]

All ClutchMaster Clutches have a much lighter pedal than all ACT offerings. That is one of the glories of CM. Stock like pedal pressure with better spring return off the floor.

 

The "gtrabby/chattery" issue is a major concern for me. CM is advertising the FX350 as the 300 with better holding capacity AND stock like engagement (full face disc instead of segmented like the FX300). So, if it is "grabby/chattery" it is no better than a FX300. FX200 is smooth like butter (full face disc) feels like stock (with better spring return) and holds far more than a stock clutch.

 

I just want to be able to give my customers clear, concise and honest appraisals (opinion) on choices pre-install.

[scoobycoupe]

Every clutch seems great when researching but once there is a problem then you seem to see more negative things about it then ever before

 

I just got my HDSS finished up today, put maybe 15 miles on it so far.

I can say that it is just as light on the foot as my Exedy stg1 clutch I had.

It seems to be smooth as butter right now but I guess only time will tell what it brings.

[Nolmers06LGT]

FWIW, I have installed and test driven one and found it to be much lighter in pedal effort than my ACT HD. I would put pedal effort on par with the '07+ OEM clutch kits I have installed.

 

I did find it to be grabby/chattery during what I consider to be normal take-off. This has been reported by more than a couple people, and the trend seems to be that it settles down during break-in. I also found giving it a few more revs would help.

 

I haven't tested their holding capacity, as I have only driven it new.

 

Nick, does your new CSC still fully extend when not constrained by the fork?

 

Mine wasn't bad during break in. Fairly smooth, but definitely chattery and grabby, and the pedal was extremely stiff. It was also a light switch on engagement, but held everything I could throw at it. Even with the issues now, it has yet to slip.

 

I'm fairly certain the pressure plate is the culprit. I had my fiancee replicate the sound while I listened under the hood; The noise is definitely coming from the bell housing, and I ruled out the TOB already. With the clutch disengaged, the transmission's input shaft is not spinning, so it's none of those bearings.

 

I've noticed an increase in chatter when engaging 1st, so it is getting worse. I'm starting to think the clamping disc inside the pressure plate is coming loose. This would explain a lot of my issues, though I would think I'd be feeling more vibrations through my pedal.

 

As for my new CSC, I'll pull the intercooler and check it. I may bleed it again just for the heck of it.

 

Here's a link to download a video of my noise.(sorry, YouTube want cooperating..)http://db.tt/aBDsWVVZ

 

Every clutch seems great when researching but once there is a problem then you seem to see more negative things about it then ever before

 

I just got my HDSS finished up today, put maybe 15 miles on it so far.

I can say that it is just as light on the foot as my Exedy stg1 clutch I had.

It seems to be smooth as butter right now but I guess only time will tell what it brings.

 

Ain't that the truth!! Good luck!

[SBT]

I can tell you right now that my stock OBXT clutch is not comfortable for daily use due to pedal effort, lol. I'm virtually certain that whatever goes in next will be easier on my left leg.

 

It really doesn't bother me that much since it's what I'm used to, but when I get in my friends 2012 WRX the clutch takes considerably less effort to modulate (to the tune of 3-5x less effort at the very least).

 

When my stock PP was failing, clutch pedal feel (and effort) was horrible. My master tech drove it for 1/4 mile, said the PP was failing, and replaced the whole thing (FW w/new PB, PP, CD, TOB) under warranty. Buttery feeling again.

 

I'm planning to go back to the stock setup when I pull the HDSS. Tired of the chatter, gear noise from the tranny, and extra heavy

[Nolmers06LGT]

ACT responded to my e-mail and mentioned that even though I'm outside the warranty, they will inspect my clutch and let me know what my options are. That could mean a number of different things, but I definitely appreciate the customer service.

 

The associate who I've been speaking with listened to my video and suggested that it could also be a pilot bearing issue, which also makes sense. It sounds like the smartest option for me is to purchase a new clutch/flywheel, and inspect the ACT after removing. Depending on what it looks like, I may be able to cover my losses... Hopefully.

[Underdog]

All ClutchMaster Clutches have a much lighter pedal than all ACT offerings. That is one of the glories of CM. Stock like pedal pressure with better spring return off the floor.

 

The "gtrabby/chattery" issue is a major concern for me. CM is advertising the FX350 as the 300 with better holding capacity AND stock like engagement (full face disc instead of segmented like the FX300). So, if it is "grabby/chattery" it is no better than a FX300. FX200 is smooth like butter (full face disc) feels like stock (with better spring return) and holds far more than a stock clutch.

 

I just want to be able to give my customers clear, concise and honest appraisals (opinion) on choices pre-install.

 

The chatter would be a major concern for me, but note that all or nearly all of the people who have posted in the CM FX350 thread have mentioned that it settles down after break-in.

[Nolmers06LGT]

As for the CSC, I wasn't able to depress the CSC without opening the bleeder first. I was thinking that this meant that everything in the hydraulic system was good, but after checking the vacation pics I'm starting to think I should inspect the CMC before I consider that issue resolved.

 

Pilot bearing: I noticed the noise once I did my timing belt, which is also when I swapped out the LWCP for the OEM CP. I'm trying to see if there's any correlation, but I don't think so. Just thought I should mention all of the clues.

 

Is it possible that my pilot bearing is failing, causing the input shaft to bounce when the clutch is disengaged? Then, upon engagement, there would be an increase in chatter, along with a vibration in gear if the clutch disk is slightly off center when the clutch is engaged.

 

Another option would be to replace the LWFW with the OEM WRX FW, and replace the pilot bearing. This would be a lower cost repair, but I still run the risk of having to tear everything apart for a 4th time if the issue is in fact the clutch.

[SBT]

For driveability, I'd replace the LWFW for the WRX one. If you need "lightened", perhaps a LW crank pulley would net you the same reduction since the WRX one is quite a bit lighter than the stock DMFW.

[Nolmers06LGT]

For driveability, I'd replace the LWFW for the WRX one. If you need "lightened", perhaps a LW crank pulley would net you the same reduction since the WRX one is quite a bit lighter than the stock DMFW.

 

That's my plan. The more I think about it, the more the pilot bearing fits the symptoms. Is there a more robust pilot bearing available for our cars, or am I better off just buying an OEM bearing?

[BarManBean]

When my stock PP was failing, clutch pedal feel (and effort) was horrible. My master tech drove it for 1/4 mile, said the PP was failing, and replaced the whole thing (FW w/new PB, PP, CD, TOB) under warranty. Buttery feeling again.

 

I'm planning to go back to the stock setup when I pull the HDSS. Tired of the chatter, gear noise from the tranny, and extra heavy

 

Interesting. Well I don't see any chance of really getting anything warranty related even though the car is low mileage. Even though part of me wants to just replace the clutch to fix the pedal, I'm trying to avoid replacing something that is currently working. Ideally I'd like to finish up my stage 2 tune and see how the stocker is doing at holding the power and go from there.

 

Mike, interesting comment about the FX200 also being full faced. If that can hold the power that I'm looking to put down with no trouble (maybe 300whp in the future) then maybe I'll look to go that route instead of the FX350. No sense getting way more clutch than I'll need I guess.

 

I already have a WRX SMFW and a TSK3 kits, so I'll just be left with a clutch choice when it comes down to it.

[Max Capacity]

That's my plan. The more I think about it, the more the pilot bearing fits the symptoms. Is there a more robust pilot bearing available for our cars, or am I better off just buying an OEM bearing?

 

I used whatever came with my Spec clutch kit. I did put a light coat of high temp grease in it.

 

 

Interesting. Well I don't see any chance of really getting anything warranty related even though the car is low mileage. Even though part of me wants to just replace the clutch to fix the pedal, I'm trying to avoid replacing something that is currently working. Ideally I'd like to finish up my stage 2 tune and see how the stocker is doing at holding the power and go from there.

 

Mike, interesting comment about the FX200 also being full faced. If that can hold the power that I'm looking to put down with no trouble (maybe 300whp in the future) then maybe I'll look to go that route instead of the FX350. No sense getting way more clutch than I'll need I guess.

 

I already have a WRX SMFW and a TSK3 kits, so I'll just be left with a clutch choice when it comes down to it.

 

 

 

I know I'm the only one that gets good results with a Spec clutches. I'm very happy with my current Spec 2 clutch.

 

I wipe the FW & PP down with acetone, and bolt it together, grease the snout on the tranny and shove it in.

 

The SPec 2 clutch is much better as a DD then the 2+ was for over 85,000 miles.

[xt2005bonbon]

I know I'm the only one that gets good results with a Spec clutches.

 

Cause you're so special .

[Max Capacity]

Cause you're so special .

 

Gee, I was hopeing more that it was because I was good...