Koni inserts built with '13 OEM housing

[fahr_side]

With that much caster I'd consider a steering fluid cooler.

[fredrik94087]

With that much caster I'd consider a steering fluid cooler.

 

PM'd with questions.

 

On another note, I was looking for caster specs and got some from Eibach pro-kit. There are two interesting items there.

 

One is that a 6.0 degree caster is "spec".

 

Second, and more important are the spring rates. They list the initial rate as well as the progressive rate. And, the progressive rate is higher than we had been led to believe.

 

Here is a copy and paste:

 

PRO-KIT—SUBARU LEGACY 2010-11 DATA:

 

TECHNICAL INFORMATION

 

FRONT:

 

http://performance-suspension.eibach.com/uploads/Image/performance-suspension.eibach.com/News/Application_Updates/hyundia_sonata_prokit/hyundia_sonata_prokit_front.jpg

OE rate: 29 N/mm (165 lbs/in)

PK rate: Progressive 35-52 N/mm (200-296 lbs/in)*

Bump-stop: OE

Damper: OE

OE wheel center to fender: 390 mm (15.4 in)

PK wheel center to fender: 365 mm (14.4 in)

 

Front Alignment:

OE Camber = -0.3 +/-0.5 deg.

OE Caster = 6.0 +/-0.8 deg.

OE Toe = 0.00 +/-0.08 deg.

PK Camber = -0.3 deg.

PK Caster = 6.0 deg.

PK Toe = 0.00 deg.

 

PRO-KIT can be aligned to OE specifications.

 

Approximate installation time: 1.5 hr

 

REAR:

 

http://performance-suspension.eibach.com/uploads/Image/performance-suspension.eibach.com/News/Application_Updates/hyundia_sonata_prokit/hyundia_sonata_prokit_rear.jpg

OE rate: 31 N/mm (177 lbs/in)

PK rate: Progressive 38-48 N/mm (217-274 lbs/in)*

Bump-stop: New Eibach bump-stop

Damper: OE

OE wheel center to fender: 390 mm (15.4 in)

PK wheel center to fender: 365 mm (14.4 in)

 

Rear Alignment:

OE Camber = -1.2 +/-0.8 deg.

OE Toe = 0.0 deg. +/- 0.8 deg.

PK Camber = -1.7 deg.

PK Toe = 0.0

 

PRO-KIT can be aligned to OE specifications.

 

Approximate installation time: 1.0 hr

 

http://m.eibach.com/news_subaru_legacy_2010-11_pro-kit.shtml

[Scooby-GT]

Fahr_side, if I may pick your brain a little bit...I am trying to figure out how even out my ride height. With my LGT Swifts springs, my rear end is about .625 to an inch taller than the front. With the shorter 4th_gen_Legacy Koni shocks, I was hoping to even it out without having to do any modifications....at least initially.

 

My current ride height is:

Swifts with 2009 WRX dampers: LF: 26 1/16 RF: 26 3/16 LR: 26 11/16 RR: 27 3/16

 

According to the Koni's technical drawings (see below), the 4th_gen_Legacy Koni has a lower perch height of 9mm when compare to the WRX specific ones. I know 9mm isn't a lot, but that will bring me that much closer to my goal. My worries is that will there be enough preload if I use them with my Swifts? Another thing is with the 4th_gen_Legacy's shorter shock body, its travel is 15mm less. I am afraid if I do user them, I will bottoming out or riding on my bump stop more frequently. What is your opinion in all this?

 

I noticed you wrote the 4th_gen_Legacy's are valved stiffer than the WRX ones. Was the 4th gen LGT's spring rates higher than the 08+ WRX? I am asking because the 5th gen LGT's spring rates is the other way around. It would make sense if they are, otherwise, I have confused the crap out of myself.

 

As a bonus, the damping in the LGT units is slightly stiffer overall than the WRX items to account for the extra weight of the cars.....They are also slightly shorter than the WRX units. Of course you could buy 4G LGT fronts and 3G WRX rears if you wanted to, since Koni does sell separately (bless their little wooden clogs).

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9808/konishockcomparo.jpg

[fredrik94087]

Hey Scooby-GT, I'm no shock expert, but I'm looking at those specs.

 

The slag is the difference between min and max. You're concerned about the min so you don't hit bottom, right?

 

Although the perch is lower by 9mm, the min is lower by 11mm. In essense, you are getting 2mm more travel in the min direction.

 

It is just your max that is less by 26mm, so when you go driving like "Streets of San Francisco" and you launch your car, your wheels will not hang as much as before.

 

Take it with a grain of salt, but that is what I see in the diagram.

 

If what I am saying is true, you can go with 4th gen konis for the rear and get koni inserts for your WRX fronts. Maybe you can try a used set of 4th gen rear shocks and see how the car sits, and if you like that stance, you're done.

 

Cheers,

Fredrik

[GTEASER]

The real question is how much compression travel is left after the car is sitting on the ground. Obviously, with lowering springs it will be less, but is it enough. It looks like the 08+ WRX shock would provide more suspension compression before bottoming, and you would want that if you are on lowering springs.

[fahr_side]

I used shorter, stiffer bump stops with my rear Konis to compensate for the slightly shorter travel. The GRF springs I use give a similar static sag to my stock ones, so the drop is due to the position of the lower perch. I got what I wanted. Had I not I'd have cut some more grooves on a lathe, which is easy.

[Scooby-GT]

Where did you get those shorter, stiffer bump stops?

 

Also, did you mill your own spacer for the shock mount? I was thinking about enlarging the hole on the RLCA for a larger bolt, then use two 5-6mm spacers on each side. But then I want to avoid any modifications to my Cusco RLCA, they are too pretty for that.

[fahr_side]

Where did you get those shorter, stiffer bump stops?

 

Also, did you mill your own spacer for the shock mount? I was thinking about enlarging the hole on the RLCA for a larger bolt, then use two 5-6mm spacers on each side. But then I want to avoid any modifications to my Cusco RLCA, they are too pretty for that.

In back I used the second stop from the left in the photo here.

 

http://www.ground-control-store.com/images/fullsize/bumpstop_fs.jpg

 

I'm in contract manufacturing. I used one of my usual suppliers to turn up some spacers. I also wouldn't recommend drilling the arms out.

 

I am sure the Koni rear units for the WRX are longer than those for a 4th gen LGT and also sure the lower bushing at least has the same diameter hole in it as the BR/BM body LGT. The same rear LCAs are specified for both the WRX and BR Legacy, so the bolt holes are going to be same size. IIWY I'd just get the WRX items for the rear end.

[Blizzard]

On concrete highways they are so loud that I can barely talk without raising my voice. On smooth, new asphalt, they are quieter, but my winter Goodyear ICE were even quieter than that. So were my DWS'...

 

You do realize that's just a characteristic of driving on a rougher concrete surface right?

[fredrik94087]

I'll still say that there is no noise issue whatsoever and the ride is very compliant...but that's me.

 

Quick update on the non-scientific approach to testing suspension improvements...

 

Long right hander sweep:

OEM ???

+225/50/16 Conti DW 43mph

+RCE blacks 45mph

+245/45/17 Michelin SS +19mm RSB +LCA 47mph

+Konis all around 48-49mph

[GTEASER]

^^I think you're just getting used to the car and know it's limits better.

 

That and mods have a tendency to make kajones bigger.

[fredrik94087]

You have a point, but the suspension helps a LOT.

 

You know, When you don't have much room right to left, and letting off the throttle means oversteer, you have to be committed:icon_twis or else

 

I mentioned that sweep to my boss and he says he can take it at 90 in his M3. I highly doubt it....

[disgoduc]

Current gen M3 is fast but no road feel, 1st gen M3 with poly bushings, full Bilstein suspenion including adj sways and Eibach pro kit will shred a corner like nobody's business. I swear that car could pull 1.25 on the skidpad. Hell, my 85 535i with just Bilstein susp could keep up with hi po cars in autox. Late 80s early 90's was high time for BMW. Great cars!

 

Peace,

Dave F.

[fredrik94087]

I agree...they have great handling out of the box, but not enough to pull 90 where I can only manage <50 with a decent setup.

 

At the moment, the handling is close to my old EVO 8 (minus the braking and minus 100HP:lol:)

[tytek]

You do realize that's just a characteristic of driving on a rougher concrete surface right?

 

Yes I do. But due to the increase in contact patch (225 vs. 245) they are ultra loud on concrete and rough surfaces. They do quiet down a lot on smooth roadways. I am still considering adding sound deadening to make the noise less pervasive.

[tytek]

I agree...they have great handling out of the box, but not enough to pull 90 where I can only manage <50 with a decent setup.

 

At the moment, the handling is close to my old EVO 8 (minus the braking and minus 100HP:lol:)

 

Agree with you on the handling improvement. Much less body roll and it is quite hard now to make the PPS' sing, or it takes a lot more balls and quite a bit more speed

 

I still need figure out my Koni settings, as the rear is too bouncy. I will add a quarter to half a turn to just the rears. I am afraid that if they are set too stiff though, the car will be prone to oversteer.

[GTEASER]

I still need figure out my Koni settings, as the rear is too bouncy. I will add a quarter to half a turn to just the rears. I am afraid that if they are set too stiff though, the car will be prone to oversteer.

 

A few autox runs and you should have that figured out without killing anything more than a few cones.

[fahr_side]

In related news, the front inserts I installed 40,000km and three years ago are showing the first signs of a slight leak. Still can't see a better solution out there in the fixed-perch market, so I will be getting another set.

[Scooby-GT]

Are you planning to get them replaced under their life time warranty?

http://www.koni-na.com/warranty.cfm

 

In related news, the front inserts I installed 40,000km and three years ago are showing the first signs of a slight leak. Still can't see a better solution out there in the fixed-perch market, so I will be getting another set.

[fahr_side]

I don't have time to piss around like that. I'm going to buy another set, swap, and then get the leakers fixed at my leisure. It will be okay to have a spare set on hand.

 

I'm not yet 100% sure they are leaking.

[fahr_side]

In back I used the second stop from the left in the photo here.

Scheiße. Sorry guys, but I remembered wrong. Going through my notes I realize that I had cut one of the corrugations off the stock rear bumpstop and used the second from the right bumpstop in that photo from GC on the front units.

[tytek]

Scheiße. Sorry guys, but I remembered wrong. Going through my notes I realize that I had cut one of the corrugations off the stock rear bumpstop and used the second from the right bumpstop in that photo from GC on the front units.

 

That's what I did with my rear bump stops - just shortened them by one corrugation. I left the front ones untouched, will see if that was a smart move.

[fredrik94087]

In related news, the front inserts I installed 40,000km and three years ago are showing the first signs of a slight leak. Still can't see a better solution out there in the fixed-perch market, so I will be getting another set.

 

Are they leaking or just getting worn out?

 

I've still got mine at full soft. The fronts may get one click to the hard side, but if mine start going soft, I will tighten them incrementally until full hard is like full soft.

 

Tytek,

I didn't do anything with the bump stops other than replacing the OEM with the ones that came in the RCE box.

[GTEASER]

You are probably fine with the RCE ones Fredrik. However, I may need to think about the bump stop thing since I will going with H&R springs and will be 1/2 lower than you guys.

[tytek]

Are they leaking or just getting worn out?

 

I've still got mine at full soft. The fronts may get one click to the hard side, but if mine start going soft, I will tighten them incrementally until full hard is like full soft.

 

Tytek,

I didn't do anything with the bump stops other than replacing the OEM with the ones that came in the RCE box.

 

My RCE springs did not come with bumps stops