Koni inserts built with '13 OEM housing

[fredrik94087]

Thanks for doing the initial research.

 

After install, the fronts were 68.5cm, while the rears were 71.5cm. The rears have probably settled a little after driving for about 50 miles. I will check ride height again tomorrow. Sorry for going metric on y'all... I just can't see all the standard markings on my measuring tape.

 

Wonder if swift springs would be less stiff. The RCEs so far didn't impress me with their ride quality. May be too stiff for street use. Any input?

 

You mentioned Michelin Pilots. I have those too, and I don't find then noisy at all.

 

I'm running 245/45/17, RCE springs and I have the konis, and I can tell you that, for me, the ride is not stiff at all.

 

If I could get the car 1/2" lower with the same stiffness, it would be ideal for me.

 

Are you on 18's perhaps?

 

If you can pull your car into your garage and measure, it would be great. I had a hell of a time trying to find level ground.

[Scooby-GT]

The Swifts are definitely on the softer side. I have been on them with the wrx dampers, and they have been great. The RCE are a bit stiffer, but what I don't like about them is that the rear spring rates don't account for the lower motion ratio.

[fahr_side]

What lower moment ratio? AFAIK the rear lateral arms are the same between the GH and BM chassis, and so are the rear shock top mount positions.

[Scooby-GT]

Sorry, I meant motion ratio. Though moment ratio is a more descriptive term, don't know why people call it motion ratio instead.

[fahr_side]

Good point on nomenclature, but where does the difference in ratio come from?

[Scooby-GT]

Looks like we are thread jacking on fredrik94087, I hope he doesn't mind.

 

2010+ LGT Swift's rates 213F/235R

2010+ LGT RCE Black 240F/245R

2008+ WRX RCE Black 275F/250R

 

My mistake, I was referencing at the WRX's RCE rates. I wonder why the WRX has a much higher front rates than the rear. The RLCA between the Legacy and WRX are identical, so the motion ratio should be too.

[fredrik94087]

Looks like we are thread jacking on fredrik94087, I hope he doesn't mind.QUOTE]

 

This thread got jacked when I found out I used the wrong donor struts:lol:

[fahr_side]

The Legacies usually have at least one dead hooker in the trunk?

[tytek]

You mentioned Michelin Pilots. I have those too, and I don't find then noisy at all.

 

I'm running 245/45/17, RCE springs and I have the konis, and I can tell you that, for me, the ride is not stiff at all.

 

If I could get the car 1/2" lower with the same stiffness, it would be ideal for me.

 

Are you on 18's perhaps?

 

If you can pull your car into your garage and measure, it would be great. I had a hell of a time trying to find level ground.

 

Yes, the Michelins are 245/40/18 and are the Pilot Super Sport summer tires. On concrete highways they are so loud that I can barely talk without raising my voice. On smooth, new asphalt, they are quieter, but my winter Goodyear ICE were even quieter than that. So were my DWS'...

 

Plan to have the car sound-deadened by a pro locally. I had done dynamat before and don't have the patience or desire to ever do it again.

 

Measurements this morning are: FL 66cm, FR 67cm, RL 68cm, RR 69cm. I will load up the car with work gear on Monday and drive for a couple of days before taking new measurements.

 

I am amazed that you don't think the ride is super stiff with the RCE springs. I was able to clearly see my wife bounce around like crazy in the passenger seat during our drive last night. Safe to say that she was not amused by my new suspension.

[fredrik94087]

Not stiff at all, but remember, I have a tiny bit more sidewall.

 

And again no to the noise. They are not loud for me.

 

Theyre getting put on right now. I will measure and post later today I hope.

 

Interesting...you are getting 1cm difference between left and right.

 

Cheers,

Fredrik

[fredrik94087]

kyb wrx strut donors with rce black springs height

 

fl 26.5

fr 26.75

rl 27

rr 27.25

 

1/4" difference between right and left.

 

if they had guaged interest for a complete set of konis including built front struts, I would have saved myself a bunch of hassle and money and time and frustration.

 

pics and build instructions to follow at a later date.

 

cheers,

Fredrik

[tytek]

kyb wrx strut donors with rce black springs height

 

fl 26.5

fr 26.75

rl 27

rr 27.25

 

1/4" difference between right and left.

 

if they had guaged interest for a complete set of konis including built front struts, I would have saved myself a bunch of hassle and money and time and frustration.

 

pics and build instructions to follow at a later date.

 

cheers,

Fredrik

 

Seems like you are seeing a similar height difference between right and left too. Although my rears are higher, due to me using the WRX front struts, which in turn are lower than LGT KYB ones.

 

If I don't like the look of the front gap, I may stick the inserts in my original LGT strut bodies and see what that does.

 

No build pics from me - was too dirty to handle wife's nice DSLR camera.

[disgoduc]

Pardon me for being a little off topic but, in a lot of suspension talk surrounding the Scoob GT I have seen swift springs mentioned several times. On the swift site I can only find Wrx springs not GT, are these the ones being used on some of the Legacy's on the this site?

 

Peace,

Dave F.

[rpmk104]

Lot's of great info in this thread.

 

Is it safe to assume that the koni inserts will fit the legacy struts? Seems like the only difference between the wrx and legacy strut is the spring perch height.

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[fredrik94087]

Lot's of great info in this thread.

 

Is it safe to assume that the koni inserts will fit the legacy struts? Seems like the only difference between the wrx and legacy strut is the spring perch height.

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Not necessarily. There may be a very slight difference in ID as in Inside Diameter. The KYB WRX donors I used had more play in them than the wrong donor struts sent by Subaru in my first post. So, we can't be sure.

[fredrik94087]

Finally...

 

KYB WRX 08+ strut donors used with 08+ WRX koni inserts, 08+ WRX koni rears, and Legacy RCE Black springs.

KYB 09 WRX front donor struts part numbers:

339172 left

339171 right

 

Koni part numbers:

8610-1453 Front TR is 1453SPORT

8610-1055 Rear TR is 1055SPORT

 

 

I used a hacksaw and used the cap of the strut as a guide. I cut as high up as I could.

 

The rest is pretty straight forward. I used loctite and cranked down to the 55 ft/lbs specified by Koni.

 

Upon installation, I was told that the ABS line could not be attached as it was before. I was told the Legacy uses a clip, but the KYB WRX strut donor uses a bolt hole. They tie-wrapped the ABS line and said it would be fine.

 

I have not done an insert with a Legacy strut. The only strut I used before may have come from an outback. That was my first post.

 

Pictures of the car on next post.

[fredrik94087]

Pictures of the car...

 

I can tell you that the ride is MUCH better now. Don't let anyone shine you on and say you'll be fine with just the springs (regardelss of the manufacturer unless it is OEM for your car!)

 

KYB WRX 08+ strut donors used with 08+ WRX koni inserts, 08+ WRX koni rears, and Legacy RCE Black springs.

 

My OEM ride height:

FL: 27 3/4

FR: 28

RL: 27 3/4

RR: 27 7/8

 

May have mentioned this before, but here is the ride height again with my current suspension:

FL 26.5"

FR 26.75"

RL 27"

RR 27.25"

 

For comparison, "tytek" used WRX struts as donors with RCE springs and had:

FL: 66cm or 26"

FR: 67cm or 26 3/8"

RL: 68cm or 26 3/4"

RR: 69cm or 27 1/8"

 

We'll let him confirm this or update us, but it looks like his front has more drop than mine.

 

He and Scooby-GT measured the WRX strut at about 1/2" shorter than the Legacy strut. I measured the KYB WRX strut at about 1/4" shorter than the Legacy strut.

 

I've got it on the soft "rebound" setting, and the ride is fine. I will play around with it from time to time to see what is optimal for ME.

 

Note that the Konis do not have adjustment for compression.

 

I love haing the front slightly lower than the rear. This is ideal for ME.

 

I don't find the ride hard or harsh or jarring. It is much better than OEM. Again, I will qualify this by saying "for ME".

 

Good luck all who wish to try this route or tytek's route.

 

Cheers,

Fredrik

[fahr_side]

I've got it on the soft "rebound" setting, and the ride is fine. I will play around with it from time to time to see what is optimal for ME.

 

Note that the Konis do not have adjustment for compression.

This is a common misconception. In fact compression IS adjustable, just not independently from rebound damping. Compression damping needs to have much less force than rebound damping and also less adjustment range. Koni uses a system whereby compression damping is adjusted along with compression damping, to the degree they deem suitable. Not as cool as fully independent adjustment but quite sufficient for most people using a fixed-perch suspension, and one less thing for the average user to mess up.

[fredrik94087]

This is a common misconception. In fact compression IS adjustable, just not independently from rebound damping. Compression damping needs to have much less force than rebound damping and also less adjustment range. Koni uses a system whereby compression damping is adjusted along compression damping, to the degree they deem suitable. Not as cool as fully independent adjustment but quite sufficient for most people using a fixed-perch suspension, and one less thing for the average user to mess up.

 

Fahr-side, are you saying that compression AND rebound are adjustable with these struts? If they are set together, so be it, so if I stiffen up rebound compression stiffens up too, I am fine with that. But, I was under the impression from Koni that the compression is non adjustable on these.

[fahr_side]

As I said, that's a common misconception. Koni themselves don't do a great job communicating their strategy to the public. The whole compression damping curve moves up and down in tandem with the rebound curve to match the rebound damping level set. Given full adjustability, most owners will overcompensate on compression damping to match changes in rebound settings anyway.

 

It's kinda funny but I have an '08 WRX with 4G LGT Konis on it and you have a 5G LGT with '08 WRX Konis on. Oh, and my car also sits slightly lower on the driver side than the other. Weight distribution isn't perfect in these cars. Don't worry about a few mm.

[fredrik94087]

Thanks for the clarification, fahr_side. I will definitely stiffen up the konis a bit. At the soft setting, they are way better than OEM, but not as stiff as they need to be for the RCE springs...IMHO.

 

Yeah, curious, why did you go with 4th gen LGT konis?

 

So, here is something to try out if a member is feeling adventurous...4th gen LGT setup on a 5th gen. If it works, there are bilsteins readily available for 4th gen LGT. I don't know if Scooby-GT tried that setup or not.

 

I suppose I could have tried the 4th gen konis, but I didn't think about it in my first trial, and in my second and ahem...hopefully...final trial, I used KYB WRX struts, so it wouldn't make sense to go with 4th gen konis. I wonder if the 4th gen konis are narrower than 08+ WRX konis????

 

On the ride height difference, it drives me nuts beacuse when the suspension hangs it is the same distance from fender to brake rotors. Is the car really heavier on the left side? Both front and rear?

[fahr_side]

I was an early-adopter. The OE suspension on the '08 WRX was so incredibly bad... wet noodles for springs and weak, leaky things I can only describe as spring holders inside them... no damping effect at all it seems. My front struts were leaking within two months off the lot and another one around here only months older than mine already had leaky rears. I got new OE fronts on warranty and before having them installed read about Big Sky WRX's (well-respected member on ClubWRX) install of the BL Legacy Konis on his '08. Koni were still not ready to announce a kit for this car so I followed his lead and hacked the new ones up straight from the box, which was a fitting end for them. He used the '09 WRX springs since he has autox rules to obey, while I have JDM GRF items which lower the car about 20mm front and 15mm rear. As a bonus, the damping in the LGT units is slightly stiffer overall than the WRX items to account for the extra weight of the cars.

 

I can tell you the 4G LGT Koni kit fits perfectly into the '08 and '09WRX strut body. I can also tell you that '10~'12 EDM LGTs came with Bilstein struts straight out of the box, though they went back to cheapo KYB stuff in '13. As I'm sure you know, the rear units for the 4G LGT have a lower eye that is narrower than the WRX or BM Legacy items, and has a larger bolt hole through that mount. I had some adapter turned up to adapt them. They are also slightly shorter than the WRX units. Of course you could buy 4G LGT fronts and 3G WRX rears if you wanted to, since Koni does sell separately (bless their little wooden clogs).

[GTEASER]

Fredrik, do you notice any increase in NVH that you can attribute to the solid LCA's?

[fredrik94087]

Fredrik, do you notice any increase in NVH that you can attribute to the solid LCA's?

 

ce qui vous a fait pour indiquer???

 

Sorry GTEASER, I'm a bit acronym illiterate only when it has to do with cars and everything that is not car related. Otherwise, I will usually get it.

 

LCAs = Lower Control Arms?

NVH = don't have a clue. Okay, I googled it...noise vibration and harshness?

 

My lower control arms are there just to give me adjustability for camber. Otherwise, I would have left it stock.

 

You're asking the wrong guy about harshness because I am not that sensitive to it. tytek has almost the identical setup except for 18" wheels versus my 17", and we have completely different "feels" for the ride. I think it's better than OEM and I don't think it is harsh or jarring at all. I don't notice any particular noise, vibration nor harshness.

 

I do have a better feel for the road and where my front wheels are pointed.

 

I still have the konis set to full soft. I pushed it through a very long right handed onramp and finally enjoyed driving the legacy.

 

I can tell you that with +5.5 degrees caster in the front (about as far as the shop was willing to go) and roughly -1 degree camber all around, with the RCE springs and konis and a 19mm RSB and 245s all around, I believe I have the car at neutral through a long sweep. Tonight will be final verdict when I run it through the same spot where I measured speed through a long turn at OEM 43, RCE added 45, Michelins added 47.

 

Before the konis, I had a touch of understeer. That may have had a bit to do with the caster, but the stiffer konis in the rear probably helped too.

 

Cheers,

Fredrik

[GTEASER]

Just ordered H&R springs. Going to do one step at a time. Koni's will come soon.