fahr_side Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Let things settle down by driving the car a few km before pulling all your hair out. You may not have pulled one of the front inserts all the way in. Also possible the top hat wasn't assembled correctly. Sure you installed the washer correctly between the top spring perch and top mount? Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 Let things settle down by driving the car a few km before pulling all your hair out. You may not have pulled one of the front inserts all the way in. Also possible the top hat wasn't assembled correctly. Sure you installed the washer correctly between the top spring perch and top mount? Thanks for trying to cheer me up, but I'm really frustrated with this car. I paid someone to install it, so I will go back to Wheel Works and have them take a look. I will ask them about the top hat, and I will ask them about the spring seating properly or not. I asked the guy that did the install, "Did you make sure the springs were sitting properly in the perch?" To which he replies they were. I have a sneaky suspicion they are not, but I will ask them to check the strut mount as well. Even if one insert was out by 1", it would not make a ride height difference. The spring perch is on the OEM donor strut body, and that sets the ride height. But, the perch is not flat, it spirals down, and if they don't put the spring in properly, it can make a difference. I can't see well enough without at least raising the car and removing the wheel. So, I will just have it done at the shop. And about pulling out my hair...I'm bald! Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 You had WheelWorks do your install? Big mistake IMHO. I stay as far away from those guys as I can. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Even if one insert was out by 1", it would not make a ride height difference. The spring perch is on the OEM donor strut body, and that sets the ride height. But, the perch is not flat, it spirals down, and if they don't put the spring in properly, it can make a difference. And about pulling out my hair...I'm bald! All true. I also pulled all my hair out years ago. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 UPDATE...yikes!!! The part numbers I got from from Subaru were the WRONG part numbers. Someone had posted what I believe are the correct part numbers, but I trusted Subaru!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAARGH!~!!!!!!!!!! For my 2013 2.5i 6 speed, the part numbers are: 20310aj07a L??? 20310aj06a R??? These are definitely not the same part numbers I ordered. I measured the struts on the car. The measurement is from the top of the bracket with the two holes to the bottom of the spring perch. left side 5 3/4" right side 6" I measured my original struts that came off the car and I got: left side 5" right side 5" Big friggin mystery solved!!!!!!! I need to get koni inserts, redo the build, and re-install...figgin hell!!!!!!!! "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby-GT Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I highly doubt the spring in the FR was sat improperly. If it was off by whatever amount from the end of the perch, the compression force from the spring will slowly move the spring to the point of no movement. I noticed your OEM ride height numbers are when you were on the stock springs, did you take measurement with the RCE with the OEM dampers? I think the discrepancy is from the RCE springs. Your numbers are still way more consistent than mines!!! Did you notice any changes in ride height now you have the Konis installed? Most importantly, how is the ride? Even if one insert was out by 1", it would not make a ride height difference. The spring perch is on the OEM donor strut body, and that sets the ride height. But, the perch is not flat, it spirals down, and if they don't put the spring in properly, it can make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 I highly doubt the spring in the FR was sat improperly. If it was off by whatever amount from the end of the perch, the compression force from the spring will slowly move the spring to the point of no movement. I noticed your OEM ride height numbers are when you were on the stock springs, did you take measurement with the RCE with the OEM dampers? I think the discrepancy is from the RCE springs. Your numbers are still way more consistent than mines!!! Did you notice any changes in ride height now you have the Konis installed? Most importantly, how is the ride? No, ScoobyGT...read my last post...frustrating...... "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby-GT Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Omg dude...this really sucks! Maybe instead of get some new struts, you should take the inserts out, bring the strut bodies to a machine shop and have them cut and weld at the length you desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'm gonna use the struts that were pulled off the car. I already ordered the koni inserts due here on 4/29. Long wait. I'll be riding around like a low rider...sort of...until I get this fixed. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 You can pull the inserts back out of the struts eh. Loosen the bottom bolt off, tap it in with a hammer. If the insert hasn't come loose yet, replace the bolt with a longer one and keep tapping. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Don't order new ones Fredrik!! Just reuse the ones you have like fahr_side mentioned. If you do go with new ones, I'll take your olds. Haha!! GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Don't order new ones Fredrik!! Just reuse the ones you have like fahr_side mentioned. If you do go with new ones, I'll take your olds. Haha!! Squeaky wheel gets the grease, I suppose. But, you may not want inserts that have already been mashed in and then hammered out. I'm getting a set of KYB 08+ WRX struts to measure the WRX versus OEM and get a real value. I will also re-measure the OEM rears versus koni rears. I'll post everything before I start cutting anything...I promise Contemplating going with H&R since I have to do this again...not sure. Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTEASER Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Squeaky wheel gets the grease, I suppose. But, you may not want inserts that have already been mashed in and then hammered out. I suppose your right. Got any extra OEM top hats that you don't need? FWIW, the best price I have found on Konis is at 1xracing.com. $140 each for fronts and $130 each for rears. KYB replacement OEMs can be had for about $75 at many places. GTEASER's 2012 Legacy GT - Sold GTEASER's 2009 XTeaser - Sold GTEASER's 1992 Legacy SS - Sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Koni rears vs Legacy rears = SAME KYB WRX struts vs Legacy struts = 1/4" to 3/8" difference (measured a dozen different ways) ScoobyGT measured 1/2" difference between Legacy strut and WRX strut. Not sure if there is supposed to be any difference between the KYB vs OEM WRX strut. One thing I don't particularly like about the KYB is the spring perch. legacy strut has a narrow groove to hold the spring. KYB strut has almost no groove, but it has three locations where the spring perch was punched in order to create a 1/2" long groove to hold the spring in place. So, the difference I can measure and see are 1/4" to 3/8" ride difference and continuous groove versus three groove locations to hold the spring. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 KYB WRX struts vs Legacy struts = 1/4" to 3/8" difference (measured a dozen different ways) Can you clarify that by stating which one has the spring perch in the higher position? Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Can you clarify that by stating which one has the spring perch in the higher position? KYB WRX strut has spring perch set lower by 1/4" to 3/8" This is the confusing part because in ScoobyGT's post, he had at least 1/2" difference when on OEM struts versus WRX struts. Look at the LF and RF with same springs: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2009-wrx-oem-setup-2013-legacy-6mt-200789.html Swifts with 2013 strut/shocks: LF: 26 3/4 RF: 26 7/8 LR: 26 11/16 RR: 27 5/16 Swifts with 2009 WRX dampers: LF: 26 1/16 RF: 26 3/16 LR: 26 11/16 RR: 27 3/16 I'm going to put my OEM springs into the perch and try to measure from the bottom coil to the center of the bolt hole for both struts and see what I get. There may be a difference in the perch?!?!?! Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 ScoobyGT confirmed that he measured 1/2" difference between WRX and Legacy struts. I measured the KYB WRX versus Legacy, and I can't get more than 1/4" and a hair. I measured the lowest, middle and highest spring perch to center of first bolt hole. I'm leaning toward the KYB to get the front a bit lower than the rear. Someone talk me off the ledge. "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 If you want the additional 1/4" drop up front, go ahead with the KYB ones. It should not be a big deal, as your drop of around 1" should keep your camber within OEM spec. I wouldn't sweat it at all, if you think that it will look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 If you want the additional 1/4" drop up front, go ahead with the KYB ones. It should not be a big deal, as your drop of around 1" should keep your camber within OEM spec. I wouldn't sweat it at all, if you think that it will look good. I'm counting on it ending up only 1/4" lower. I will most likely go with the KYB just so I will still have all my stock suspension and drop the front a tad more. I will post the ride height all around, but if it is off for some reason, I'm not going to bother chasing it. I guess I should also measure the girth of the KYB strut versus the Legacy strut while I'm at it and post that up when I do a new thread and delete this one. Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Installed my 09 WRX Koni inserts using from 09 WRX donor strut bodies. I had done these swaps before on Subarus, Audis, BMWs, Fords, but this was the first time that I had no help. It is easier and quicker to have an extra set of hands, but the whole thing is quite doable alone. Air tools would have come in handy too. Extra long bolt was required to set the inserts in the strut bodies - I used an M12, 150 pitch, 50mm long bolt initially, but it depends on where you trim the strut bodies (used Koni recommended 40mm below cut line). Used a nut as a spacer later to seat the insert deep enough for the original Koni bolt to catch it. The rear top hats required enlarging of the hole, to clear the shock threaded top. I used a decent size drill bit and it was rather easy. 5th gen LGT specific RCE black springs where used with the inserts. The front ended up around 1" lower than the rear end, due to the WRX spring perch being 1/2" lower. I suspect that the rear will still settel more, as the springs were not compressed much during the installation, as opposed to the front ones. Visually, it does not look like the difference is as much, and I carry lots of weight in the trunk for work. Will measure the ride hight again in a couple of days, and when all the junk is in the trunk. Decided not to use the LGT front strut bodies, since I had the WRX ones already, and it allowed me to install the inserts in the struts the night before, making install day easier. The adjustability is a great feature. I preset the Konis to 1/4 turn from the softest setting, but it allowed the stiff RCE springs to bounce too much. Adjusted the dampening to 3/4 turn and it took a lot of the bounce out. I may go as high as 1 full turn to see what that feels like. Overall, the ride is much more controlled and the car handles better. It will need an alignment, but I marked my camber bolts and reused that camber setting after install. I am wondering how much it ends up being off from original setting. Cliff notes: 08+ WRX Koni inserts work on the 5th gen LGT, if you use front WRX donor struts. Rears bolt on, with minimal modification. I will try to take pics tomorrow and post them here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 That is awesome dude!!! Congratulations. I've gone ahead with the KYB WRX bodies and did the inserts...much easier than using OEM donors. I believe the WRONG struts that were sent me were for an outback. They are not yet installed, but will be relatively soon. Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 BTW, did I say that the RCE/Koni combo is stiff? Rattle your fillings stiff. Not sure if I like it for DD yet. Combined with my Michelin Pilot Super Sport, which are loud as $&@), the car does not feel like a good daily... Thanks for all the research, Fredrik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby-GT Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Nice, would you mind taking ride height measurements to compare with fredrik94087? Try to take it at the centerline of the wheel from the ground to the fender. Thanks! Cliff notes: 08+ WRX Koni inserts work on the 5th gen LGT, if you use front WRX donor struts. Rears bolt on, with minimal modification. I will try to take pics tomorrow and post them here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrik94087 Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 BTW, did I say that the RCE/Koni combo is stiff? Rattle your fillings stiff. Not sure if I like it for DD yet. Combined with my Michelin Pilot Super Sport, which are loud as $&@), the car does not feel like a good daily... Thanks for all the research, Fredrik. I can't take the credit for putting WRX fronts on a 5th gen. That was ScoobyGT. Nice, would you mind taking ride height measurements to compare with fredrik94087? Try to take it at the centerline of the wheel from the ground to the fender. Thanks! That is a fantastic idea because I have a sneaky suspicion that the KYB WRX strut is 1/4" taller at the spring perch. But, we shall see. Cheers, Fredrik "It's within spec" - SOA "Depth is only shallowness viewed from the side." - Fredism "So, how much did it cost for your car to be undriveable ." - Stephen (very close friend) "You have done so much it would be stupid to go back." - Sunny of Guru Electronics 2018Q50RS | 2015WrxThread | Shrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Nice, would you mind taking ride height measurements to compare with fredrik94087? Try to take it at the centerline of the wheel from the ground to the fender. Thanks! Thanks for doing the initial research. After install, the fronts were 68.5cm, while the rears were 71.5cm. The rears have probably settled a little after driving for about 50 miles. I will check ride height again tomorrow. Sorry for going metric on y'all... I just can't see all the standard markings on my measuring tape. Wonder if swift springs would be less stiff. The RCEs so far didn't impress me with their ride quality. May be too stiff for street use. Any input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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