Well, don't bother with the Vision Plus bulbs...

[awd-turismo]

gtguy, Are you saying that if I run down to Autozone and get two Silverstars, the light will have a lot of blue tint to it? I almost bought these the other day. 'mo

[Rexmobbin]

so these Osram Silverstars, how much do they cost, where do you get them, and roughly, what would you say the K temp is? sorry if you stated these answers before, didn't notice them. similar output and look to an HID kit? hell, we already got the projector housing...

[gtguy]

[quote name='awd-turismo']gtguy, Are you saying that if I run down to Autozone and get two Silverstars, the light will have a lot of blue tint to it? I almost bought these the other day. 'mo[/QUOTE] Yes. Kevin

[gtguy]

[QUOTE=Rexmobbin']so these Osram Silverstars, how much do they cost, where do you get them, and roughly, what would you say the K temp is? sorry if you stated these answers before, didn't notice them. similar output and look to an HID kit? hell, we already got the projector housing...[/QUOTE] About $40 the pair, shipped to your door. [url]www.powerbulbs.com[/url] Couldn't guess. It looks to be about the same temperature as Acura/Audi, not BMW (best, and ONLY good HID system on the road, IMHO) It depends upon the HID kit. Sitting at a light next to an Acura, I was putting out more light. Slightly less than an Audi. For the record, these aren't "HID look" bulbs. You have your Sylvania Silverstars for that. I, however, wanted to see better. :lol: Hope that helps. Kevin

[PGT]

I ordered my set of Osram silverstars last week from powerbulbs and am anxiously awaiting their arrival. I also ordered their all-season H7's (amber) and H3's (amber fog), just to fool around with and see how they perform. I have some PIAA plamsa H3's that are coming off my Jeep when I sell it, so it would be cool to compare. I think the hi-beams are 9005's - I don't think there is an 'H' equivalent. Anybody try swapping the high beams for anything new yet? I didn't see that size on powerbulbs, otherwise I would have gotten a set.

[gtguy]

[quote name='Patagonian GT']I ordered my set of Osram silverstars last week from powerbulbs and am anxiously awaiting their arrival. I also ordered their all-season H7's (amber) and H3's (amber fog), just to fool around with and see how they perform. I have some PIAA plamsa H3's that are coming off my Jeep when I sell it, so it would be cool to compare. I think the hi-beams are 9005's - I don't think there is an 'H' equivalent. Anybody try swapping the high beams for anything new yet? I didn't see that size on powerbulbs, otherwise I would have gotten a set.[/QUOTE] I haven't. The highbeams are crazy bright. You could get a tan by standing in front of those things. :lol: Kevin

[rockford33]

Reading through this post, I didn't notice what type of bulbs the fog lights use? Is there a fog light bulb that would match the Osram Silverstars (color-wise)? I wouldn't want to get slightly whiter headlights and not have the fog lamps match. Seems that would be an obviuos red flag that you changed something and cops like to investigate sometimes to make sure everything is "legal".

[PGT]

[quote name='rockford33']Reading through this post, I didn't notice what type of bulbs the fog lights use? Is there a fog light bulb that would match the Osram Silverstars (color-wise)? I wouldn't want to get slightly whiter headlights and not have the fog lamps match. Seems that would be an obviuos red flag that you changed something and cops like to investigate sometimes to make sure everything is "legal".[/QUOTE] H3's - I ordered Osram Silverstars and matching all-season H7 and H3 bulbs (amber).

[gtguy]

[quote name='rockford33']Reading through this post, I didn't notice what type of bulbs the fog lights use? Is there a fog light bulb that would match the Osram Silverstars (color-wise)? I wouldn't want to get slightly whiter headlights and not have the fog lamps match. Seems that would be an obviuos red flag that you changed something and cops like to investigate sometimes to make sure everything is "legal".[/QUOTE] Fog lights are for fog, low beams are for lighting the road. My Osram bulbs had a "DOT" embossed on the bulb frame, btw. Kevin

[IwannaSportSedan]

Kevin is absolutely right there. Fog lights are for Fog, and seeing the road at close range in adverse weather, However Lows, Highs, and Driving (Legacy doesn't have them OEM) are for various long range illumination of the road. From what I understand about lighting color temps, and correct me if I am wrong: Yellow (lower color temps, ~2100 Kelvin) is more penetrating and less reflective by things like water in the air. (rain, fog, snow, etc.) It also tends to bring out colors in surfaces. Blue (higher color temps, 4300K and above, especially above 6000k) tends to backdazzle more, and reflect back more easily, and everything that is lit tends to take on a blue-grey hue. Whiter light (usually an equal spectrum output of all colors, at least fairly equal parts yellow and blue, with an averaged kelvin temperature of about 3800-4000k ) Tends to be an average of the two, good throw, with good reflectivity and color representation. What I would do: Fogs: Selective yellow. Less backdazzle in fog, and better color return in grey-out conditions. Highly visible by oncoming drivers, but not blinding due to low beam focus. Lows: High output and High color temp Halogens, (55+ watts, as close to 4000k as possible with a halogen) like Osram Silverstars. Halogens are usually slightly yellow (when unfiltered) but the brighter they get, the closer to white, as well. HIDs: More lumens and less watts, and much easier to get to a nice white 41-4300k. and with the increased lumen output, tends to throw the beam farther. Nice Halogen might be as much as anyone ever need, but with light at night, at highway speeds, more light is better light. Highs: At least the same output halogens as the lows, if not 65+ watts. HIDS D2R (reflector type, rather than projector D2S) if it will fit the 9005 bulb style. Possibly even a cooler blue temerature. A high output high beam pattern will throw light WAY downrange, and the blue's reflectivity might be usefull, and color recognition is less important at more than 200 yards. Driving lights: IF chosen to put them on, I'd go HID aftermarket housings for the same reason as the High Beams. But, to be honest, I don't know where I would put them on a Legacy. I'd wire it so that Fogs can be switched on or off, if on, they would light with the Parking or Low beams. Switching to High beams would leave low beams on, cut the fog lights, and turn on driving lights, if installed. The Driving and fog lights would be switched inside together, so if fogs are on with lows, driving would be on with highs. If fog lights are switched off, then Driving lights are off as well. I'd Perhaps a hidden switch to turn on the driving lights when no other lights are on, if you need light in a situation, and just want to point the car at it, and use it like a ginormous flashlight/spotlight. But if the highs are as bright as people say, driving lights may be a moot point, and a throwback to when headlights weren't nearly as good.

[PGT]

I started another thread with pics after installing my bulbs last night. I have to admit, even though I want to, I don't see any difference over stock. I can't see it in the pics I took either. :( EDIT: I was speaking of the Osram SilverStars I just got yesterday

[Rockinblue]

What exactly are "Driving lights" and "City lights"? I have heard these terms used before by some Canadian members on another forum.

[eVoMotion]

I went through the PIAA phase in my 97 LGT wagon. After spending a couple $100 in replacing bulbs, I tried some bulbs from JC Whitney - very pleasantly brighter, cheaper and longer lasting. I am running 90/130s & 130s on upgraded female connectors. This is what will be going in the new LGT. 100watt 9005 [url="http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5320/c-10101"]http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5320/c-10101[/url] 70watt H-7 [url="http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5317/c-10101"]http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5317/c-10101[/url] 130watt H-3 [url="http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-326/c-10101"]http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-326/c-10101[/url] "Never enough candle watts on a dark & twisty..." :cool:

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='eVoMotion']I went through the PIAA phase in my 97 LGT wagon. After spending a couple $100 in replacing bulbs, I tried some bulbs from JC Whitney - very pleasantly brighter, cheaper and longer lasting. I am running 90/130s & 130s on upgraded female connectors. This is what will be going in the new LGT. 100watt 9005 [url="http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5320/c-10101"]http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5320/c-10101[/url] 70watt H-7 [url="http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5317/c-10101"]http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-5317/c-10101[/url] 130watt H-3 [url="http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-326/c-10101"]http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-326/c-10101[/url] "Never enough candle watts on a dark & twisty..." :cool:[/QUOTE] That's great! but two things: 1. Which bulbs are coated and which are not? Some are obvious, but what about "halogen white" vs "halogen replacement" 2. 130 Watts? Let us know how long that takes to melt down. I'd imagine the stock fuse wouldn't hold out either.

[eVoMotion]

[size=3][font=Times New Roman]I have tried coated bulbs with no advantage, so now stay with white or Xenon.[/font][/size] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [size=3][font=Times New Roman] When my 05 LGT arrives I will evaluate the wiring - stock wiring in the 97 was excellent, all my other cars required wiring upgrades.[/font][/size] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [size=3][font=Times New Roman]10 AWG wires, a 30A fuse and Bosch relays[/font][/size] [size=3][font=Times New Roman] [/font][/size] [size=3][font=Times New Roman]I can not find a good link that describes the effects of small voltage drops on true lumens. Try this: [url="http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html"]http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html[/url] [/font][/size] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [size=3][font=Times New Roman]The rated output of an automotive lamp is figured at 13.5 volts (the output of a typical alternator), not at 12 volts as you might expect. If you loose 5% of the voltage due to voltage drop through small wiring or corroded connections, which gets you to 12.8 volts, you are only putting out 80% of the rated luminous intensity - for a 100 watt lamp that’s only 80 watts equivalent!! Bad wiring and dirty connectors can kill your candlewatts.[/font][/size] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font]

[PGT]

[quote name='eVoMotion'] [size=3][font=Times New Roman]The rated output of an automotive lamp is figured at 13.5 volts (the output of a typical alternator), not at 12 volts as you might expect. [font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font][/QUOTE] Actually, the output of an alternator is 14.4V, to allow for an operating load and charging of the cell to occur.

[f1anatic]

I am actually sporting J-SPEC R 120/170 Watt bulbs (Xenon equivalence) on the minivan. Hasn't burned anything yet but the actual power consumption is 80W/100W. 35 dollars. Got them from some store in Chicago. They are very brilliant and much better than most everything except when it is wet . Then the contrast on the asphalt is so bad that I barely see anything. I probably won't change anything on the LGT.

[eVoMotion]

Thanks for the lead. Xenon should have been mentioned earlier as a good way to get increased brightness without the higher power draw. I just found a place selling the lights you are referring to: [url="http://www.x3racing.com/product.asp?pid=LB-JS-9005"]http://www.x3racing.com/product.asp?pid=LB-JS-9005[/url]

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='eVoMotion']Thanks for the lead. Xenon should have been mentioned earlier as a good way to get increased brightness without the higher power draw. I just found a place selling the lights you are referring to: [url="http://www.x3racing.com/product.asp?pid=LB-JS-9005"]http://www.x3racing.com/product.asp?pid=LB-JS-9005[/url][/QUOTE] Tint=less brightness, always. That's a ripoff.

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='Rockinblue']What exactly are "Driving lights" and "City lights"? I have heard these terms used before by some Canadian members on another forum.[/QUOTE] No one has seemed to answer this good person's question, so here goes. This isn't gospel, this is just what I undersand. Driving lights: Extremely bright flood lights with a narrow, long range beam. They throw a conical pattern, focused on the road in front of you at a range of about 150-250 yards or farther depending on the quality of the reflector, lens fluting (if any) and bulb output. Usually at least as bright as high-beams, with a narrower, longer pattern. Mostly for high-speed driving, so not to over-drive the lights at higher european road speeds. These are not usually useful in close quarters. they will glare at oncoming drivers. Most cars with OEM installed driving lights, like Porsches, the fog lights work with low beam headlights, and/or parking lights, then when the high beams are engaged, the fogs shut off, and the driving lights come on. City lights: another european influence. Modern european market cars will drive with marker (parking) lights, and small, low wattage bulbs inset into the headlight reflectors, without the main high or low beams on. It tends to light up the reflector enough to be a beacon to other drivers, but isn't bright enough to throw a meaningful pattern, or be too bright to other drivers. It is kind of like an ultra-low beam option. Some VWs and BMWs, and other cars have little bulbs (small capsule style) inset into the reflectors. Some US cars have this function, because their overseas counterparts do. I doubt the legality of it in the US, so driving a car with only city lights on around after dusk in the US might attract LEOs. The rationale, as I understand it, is for people who drive in congested cities, at lower urban street speeds where there are lots of street lights, can drive with these on, so that oncoming drivers have a white beacon for your car from head on, yet aren't dazzled in traffic by your, and everyone else's low beams. Once out of that environment, though, Low beams at least would need to be on. looking at oncoming cars at night, alot of cars going around with ~30 watt city lights and marker lights are easier to differentiate, don't dazzle your eyes, and don't ruin your "night vision" by causing your pupils to constrict, like that many pairs of regular low beams at close range tend to. Again, that is just what I understand, and may not be 100% accurate. That said, in my "wish Legacy" It would not have Daytime running lamps from the high-beam bulbs, but it would have city lights in the high beam reflectors. The front markers would be a single "angel-eye" amber ring around the low beam projector, with the current turn signal/marker only lighting for the turn signal. Fantasy is fun. Sidenote on the DRL thing... Does it irk anyone else ever so slightly, that on the GT with DRLs (generally dubious, at best, IMHO) and constantly lit gauges (cool, IMHO) that all there is to differentiate between "headlights on", or "driving around at night with DRLs lit", is a little green light on the dash? This being from reports on this board, I have not actually driven the car at night, as I don't own one yet. Maybe the little green light, or lack of it, is enough. IMO, if "the car" decides when to have the gauges and high beams lit, and it's decision being all the time that the ignition is on, that "the car" should also have automatic headlights, so "it" can decide when to switch over to low beams, and turn the tail lights on at the proper times. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have automatic headlights. (what cars in that class besides, don't anymore? I thought they were getting ubiquitous.) As it is, it is nearly a non issue for me, and doesn't affect my opinion of the Legacy much if at all. Lots of cars have this issue. When I buy a Legacy GT, I'll just unplug the DRL socket, and go on about my driving. It would be nice if car companys that lay things like DRLs on us, would also realize that people sometimes are occupied with driving, rather than deciding if the headlights that already appear from the driver's seat to be on, should be actually turned on. I have followed many a dark vehicle with headlights but no tail lights or markers, and I wonder what it would take to get those people to turn on their lights, that they already think are on.

[Rockinblue]

IwannaSportSedan, Very nice reply - exactly what I was looking for. I know that took a while to write up and I appreciate the effort! Much thanks :cool:

[IwannaSportSedan]

No problem at all. Glad to help. I have thought about driving lights for a Legacy, (and I do like the idea of city lights) but I am not sure where to put them that would look good, and the high-beams are efficient enough that it may not need them. Driving lights are an old concept, from endurance racing in the 50's and 60s, and possibly earlier than that, where the cars would race into or through the night, at speeds that were just plain too fast for sealed dual-beam headlights, so they mounted additional spot lights. It carried over into Rally racing, and the rally guys put even more of them on, for illuminating the sides of the road, as well. Since modern CAD-engineered light reflectors, higher output bulbs, and much better electrics, and doing away with less efficient lense fluting for beam pattern; headlights are getting much better than they have been, even in the recent past. One might actually have to spend quite a bit to get superb quality driving lights that are even capable of outperforming the high-beams on most cars like the Legacy. Anymore, if you want a driving light-pattern lamp, HID is the only way to go, otherwise it is fast becoming a moot point. It sometimes is helpful for me to post things like this, and if I am off-base, someone usually posts an addendum or feedback, and I learn more, as well. BTW: Daniel Stern lighting has good info about these topics, and some links to buy some high-quality lighting. At least some good ideas to start shopping from. [URL]http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html[/URL] JW Speaker, Hella, and PIAA, Narva, Cibié, among others produce some HID and decent Halogen auxiliarly lights. [URL]http://www.jwspeaker.com/catalog/function_interface.htm[/URL] [URL=http://www.hella.com/produktion/HellaPortal/WebSite/Internet_usa/ProductsServices/Performance_Lighting/Performance_Lighting.jsp]Hella's Performance Lighting Page for USA[/URL] [URL]http://www.piaa.com/Lamps/Lamps.html[/URL]

[rad rex]

I was just on the powerbulbs site and they are quoting 21.23 euros which works out to 25.95 US dollars. Am I missing something in the pricing because these are much more economical than buying silverstars which are 19.95 EACH. Anyone have a solid review on the powerbulb OSRAM silverstars?

[drewster]

thought about the osrams but placed an order a few days ago for a set of these: Philips Power2Night Hope they aren't too lame. [img]http://www.lighting.philips.com/europe/image_region/consumer_lighting/car_lighting/s_prodsheet_p2n_schem_2.jpg[/img] [url="http://www.lighting.philips.com/in_en/consumer/carlighting/products/for_your_car/power2night/power2night.php?main=gb_en&parent=1_3&id=in_en_car_lighting&lang=en"]http://www.lighting.philips.com/in_en/consumer/carlighting/products/for_your_car/power2night/power2night.php?main=gb_en&parent=1_3&id=in_en_car_lighting&lang=en[/url]

[PGT]

[quote name='rad rex']I was just on the powerbulbs site and they are quoting 21.23 euros which works out to 25.95 US dollars. Am I missing something in the pricing because these are much more economical than buying silverstars which are 19.95 EACH. Anyone have a solid review on the powerbulb OSRAM silverstars?[/QUOTE] I got my Osram Silverstars from Powerbulbs UK. Meh. Overrated. I didn't see any difference over stock. I did a write-up.....search for it....December I think.