Moddiction Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Definitely get a custom tune for the bnr turbo. Ots tubes duck even for stock turbo. WWW.MODDICTION.COM Moddiction Stainless steel and Titanium shift knobs. Drivetrain, suspension, brakes, exhaust, cooling, fuel, gauges+MUCH more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acumenhokie Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Swapping a turbo without supporting mods and a tune is just asking for another session in the blown turbo club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddiction Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Or blown motor club. WWW.MODDICTION.COM Moddiction Stainless steel and Titanium shift knobs. Drivetrain, suspension, brakes, exhaust, cooling, fuel, gauges+MUCH more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCwagon Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Whoa. I just read thru all 27 pages because I joined the "my turbo blew" club this weekend. ZERO boost when I left the house Saturday morning so turned around, garaged it and grabbed the wifes 'Rolla. No smoke either. Turbine spins, I can't hear or see housing contact (granted it's still in car) but if I push a little axialy the shaft binds and gets resistant. TMIC says I caught it in time and I planned to pull turbo, drain oil and pull oil pan today but I didn't get to it I lost the wind from my sails, haha. BNR 16g appeals to me. I can't do any fueling now. Hell, I can't even afford this right now, damnit. The Cobb OTS stage 2 map would run that turbo just fine wouldn't it? Do not try to run the 16g with a stage 2 OTS map. The 16g, although considered a small turbo by many, is significantly larger than the vf-40. If money is an issue, I would try to find another vf40/46 and drive it awhile to make sure everything else is happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 ^This. Could be other issue at play here, so putting in a brand new turbo without making sure everything else is good to go is like rolling the dice in a craps game. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackPearl Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Well I wasn't just going to slap another turbo on and run it, but I understand what you guys are saying. I'm going to pull the oil pan and cooler and sift/magnet the oil when I drain it amd split the filter apart to check for schrapnel/metallic objects before I go forward. I guess I'm just experiencing sticker shock is all. I just figured $785 for the turbo + $175 for the IPT feedline kit for around $975 worth of total damage shipped to my house. It's the ~$350/$400 for injectors and another ~$350-400+ for a dyno tune that made me go "Oh shit!" And I'd still need a fuel pump. I was already seeing 85%-ish I.D.C.'s already. $150 for a dw65? Ah hell... It's going to take a while to save as I don't want another vf46/IHI turbo. Gotta play to play right? Edited August 20, 2013 by TheBlackPearl Self proclaimed PNW Craiglist find of the day Champion, April 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moddiction Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 You don't need injectors. You can get an etune for $150 or so if you already have the cobb AP and have a safe tune that way. WWW.MODDICTION.COM Moddiction Stainless steel and Titanium shift knobs. Drivetrain, suspension, brakes, exhaust, cooling, fuel, gauges+MUCH more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackPearl Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I like the sound of that much better. Thanks for all of you guys' help, I really appreciate it. I'll get the turbo and oil pan pulled before I speculate any more :-) Self proclaimed PNW Craiglist find of the day Champion, April 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrei Wolf Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I like the sound of that much better. Thanks for all of you guys' help, I really appreciate it. I'll get the turbo and oil pan pulled before I speculate any more :-) That's basically what I did, BNR Evo3 16g, IP&T filtered line, and an E-Tune from Cryo. I'm very happy with the car and it's a lot of fun, for a little more than a new VF40/46, and you pick up some torque and hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Also keep in mind that the stock TMIC really won't hold 18-20psi most of the time. A little epoxy and a couple big band clamps should hold things together though if you are not upgrading. Also there's the "bulletproof tmic" option. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acumenhokie Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 At what point do you 4th gen guys need to add an AOS and upgrade the stock BPV? We've seen some 5th gen guys loosing pressure on the OEM BPV at 14 - 17psi, wasn't sure if the 4th gens have that problem too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LGTLtd Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I'm running 20-21lbs on the stock BPV. I think some others have had issues though. All I need now is a hill holder and a center passing light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Yes - once you get cross the 18-19psi threshold on the stock BPV, you run the risk of it separating along the top cap/cover and leaking. If you're going to run much more than stock boost, it's good advice to seek out a dependable "machined" BOV that can take increased "sustained" boost. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted August 20, 2013 I Donated Share Posted August 20, 2013 I'm running 20-21lbs on the stock BPV. Same! If you are running less than 22psi, I think the rule should be, "Upgrade if you have problems," not, "Upgrade as part of the initial build." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeylord Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Same! If you are running less than 22psi, I think the rule should be, "Upgrade if you have problems," not, "Upgrade as part of the initial build."+1, holding 21-22 PSI here on the stocker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 tick tock, tick tock... - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated thefultonhow Posted August 20, 2013 I Donated Share Posted August 20, 2013 tick tock, tick tock... Sez you. Stock BPVs have been proven to work fine at 20+ psi for many miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 At what point do you 4th gen guys need to add an AOS and upgrade the stock BPV? We've seen some 5th gen guys loosing pressure on the OEM BPV at 14 - 17psi, wasn't sure if the 4th gens have that problem too. You will hear stories of "I am holding 22psi" but... You need to ask yourself about the validity of this claim and the source. Are they actually verifying the BPV? Or are they seeing that they make 22psi max boost. Because making 22psi max boost does not mean the BPV is holding. It means your turbo might be capable of overcoming the leak. We have seen this many, many, many times before. Customer is unaware that they are actually working the turbo harder to overcome the leak. If going over stage2, I recommend a BPV. Does not have to be fancy. But something intended to hold the pressure (not the cheapo, plastic, made to hold 14psi OEM one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 said much better than I said it. Thanks! - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrw Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 you will hear stories of "i am holding 22psi" but... You need to ask yourself about the validity of this claim and the source. Are they actually verifying the bpv? Or are they seeing that they make 22psi max boost. Because making 22psi max boost does not mean the bpv is holding. It means your turbo might be capable of overcoming the leak. We have seen this many, many, many times before. Customer is unaware that they are actually working the turbo harder to overcome the leak. If going over stage2, i recommend a bpv. Does not have to be fancy. But something intended to hold the pressure (not the cheapo, plastic, made to hold 14psi oem one). qft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeylord Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'll bite. So, how would you verify that it's leaking? My boost stays right on target (maybe even a little overboost at the peak) all through the pull, so I don't think logs are going to help. Disconnect the recirc hose from the BPV and clamp it off, try to listen for leaking in the middle of a WOT pull? A nice Forge BPV has been on my wishlist for a while, I just haven't seen any evidence that I need one so far. Thanks for taking my call, I'll hang up and listen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrw Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 You can easily watch it leak on a dyno. The curve typically dips down then goes back up. To demonstrate, this is a stage2 car look what I'm talking about is shown around 4000-4400rpm. With a properly set up BPV that dip would not be there. http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd340/Jay04WRX/4427A362-44A9-41D1-8350-54077341C237-1961-00000124F93E6F81.jpg Before and after is just tune only, so you can ignore that if you'd like. He added a Forge BPV down the road, good thing is a re-tune is normally not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBopper Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 You will hear stories of "I am holding 22psi" but... You need to ask yourself about the validity of this claim and the source. Are they actually verifying the BPV? Or are they seeing that they make 22psi max boost. Because making 22psi max boost does not mean the BPV is holding. It means your turbo might be capable of overcoming the leak. We have seen this many, many, many times before. Customer is unaware that they are actually working the turbo harder to overcome the leak. If going over stage2, I recommend a BPV. Does not have to be fancy. But something intended to hold the pressure (not the cheapo, plastic, made to hold 14psi OEM one). I agree with what you're saying here. My suggestion would be to test the OEM BPV and use it only if you're sure it will hold the target boost levels of the build (I would recommend replacing the BPV as part of any serious build). If you assume it is holding without leaking, you are just fooling yourself, and you are possibly leaving power on the table along with unnecessary stress on the turbo. I've tested my OEM BPV, that's how I know. Unfortunately, it was only after spending $$$ on Dyno time then having to troubleshoot for the reason why it wasn't meeting expectations of the build. Check here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeylord Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 That was quite the well thought out and elaborate test. Was there a large volume of air escaping? It didn't sound like too much from the video, at least compared to the volume of air that would be going into the engine at that point. It wouldn't be easy to replicate your test on the older style BPV, but maybe I can come up with something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBopper Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 It wouldn't be easy to replicate your test on the older style BPV, but maybe I can come up with something... Can you get a test flange made up similar to the one in the photo? A couple differences to consider between 4th Gen and 5th Gen BPV location. 4th Gen is after TMIC, 5th Gen is before TMIC. I can imagine any pressure drop across the TMIC of the 5th Gen would put additional demand on the OEM BPV spring to maintain good seal off, since top loading from the intake manifold could be less pressure than the turbo compressor outlet. My test was pretty much steady state, with the same amount of pressure being applied to both sides of the spring ... and it still was leaking. I noticed that with the OEM BPV, and all conditions being equal, I could only manage 17.4 psi boost, 294.0 maf g/s, wgdc @ 46.27%. Swapped to TurboSmart BPV and had no problem holding 19.6 psi boost, 317.28 maf g/s, wgdc @ 22.25%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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