Goal: 375-400 WHP Suggestions

[mjperk]

I've been browsing the board for some time now but haven't posted before. I debated whether I should post this here or in the pre-purchase section so please don't flame me :/

 

I have been saving for some time now and finally feel like it would be an okay decision to buy a 2008 Spec.B that I've been looking at. It is stock, and has 40,000 miles. I've always wanted to upgrade a car, but seeing as how I just graduated from college last May, the funds, time, and shop space were never really available to me until now. I do have some mechanical experience with my current Honda, but most of it was maintenance work such as clutch, master cylinder, brake replacements--nothing with turbo upgrades.

 

I would like to do the work myself so I have a better appreciation for what goes into it, but I want to make sure I have the tools available, and have what parts I'll need straight. As the title suggests, I'm hoping to get a reliable 375-400 WHP when it's said an done. I do plan to rebuild the motor as far as gaskets and bearings since it has 40k miles on it, but I'm wondering what you would all suggest as far as internal updgrades to support that kind of power. I fear that I'll run into some issues if I just bolt a bigger turbo and down pipe on.

 

I figured that if I'm going to rebuild the motor, I might as well do the necessary internals work while it's apart. So, what do you all suggest I do?

 

Thanks for any and all advice you can give!

[rainman]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.htmlhttp://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/begin-modifications-your-legacy-gt-19037.html

[rainman]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/begin-modifications-your-legacy-gt-19037.html

[mjperk]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turboi-wiki-twist-178684.htmlhttp://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/begin-modifications-your-legacy-gt-19037.html

 

 

Thanks rainman, that's helpful stuff. I guess I should be more specific. I've read about the Cobb tuning, but I'm not sure where to stop. For instance, they talk about a stage II tune--but what kind of power should I expect as realistic. Do I need to do a stage I, II, or III tune? I'm just not sure how far I need to take it to get the numbers I'm looking for.

 

I don't plan on this being an ongoing build where I upgrade over the course of months. Ideally I'd like to purchase what I need, upgrade it, and call it good.

[rainman]

thats what i'm hoping for right now too...Have a HTA68 from BNR, intake, FMIC, 850cc side feed, 255lph pump, gutted downpipe, catless uppipe, greddy catback, and COBB accessport. going to get a stage 3 tune from infamous

[Max Capacity]

Buy a spare car for your DD.

 

I'm not sure you relly need 400whp everyday. Unless you have deep pockets and can pay for the upkeep.

 

You need to read in the Tuning forum. Lot's of info there. Basically if you want that kind of whp you better be good with a lap top or live close to a Tuner.

 

My wagon at 280whp is a great DD. I suggest you drive the car with 40,000 miles, have it tuned stage 1 or do a DP and go stage 2. Drive the car for a few months, read more on here, then decide what you really want.

 

Ho, how deep did you say your pockets were ?

[dr_sharp]

Where did you get the 375-400 number? You say you've never modded a car before so it is highly unlikely that you really want that much power in a DD. You might want to start at 300whp or just simply go stage 2 (~250whp) before you commit an entire engine build and turbo.

 

To be completely honest, it sounds like you have no idea how much time, money, and effort is actually required to achieve >350whp.

[GTTuner]

Get a DSM with a 4G63, keep the Subaru for a DD.

[mjperk]

Where did you get the 375-400 number? You say you've never modded a car before so it is highly unlikely that you really want that much power in a DD. You might want to start at 300whp or just simply go stage 2 (~250whp) before you commit an entire engine build and turbo.

 

To be completely honest, it sounds like you have no idea how much time, money, and effort is actually required to achieve >350whp.

 

 

I got the number because I work with a guy who let me drive his "stage 2.5" STI (DD) that he claims is about 400+ hp at the wheels. I don't know all of the stuff he's done to it; all that I can tell you is that it felt noticeably quicker than a stock STI. I've always wanted a car with some power, and his car felt good to me. That being said I did think his suspension extremely hard, along with the rigid bucket seats and so I figured an upgraded Spec.B would be a good combination of speed and luxury. I figured that if I threw out a number like 400 WHP that when I realistically ended up with 350 that I wouldn't be too sad and that the cars internals wouldn't be pushed to the max at the lower hp figure thus creating a reliable vehicle.

 

You might be right about not wanting that much power for a DD--I simply threw a number out there in hopes of getting some friendly feedback. The whole intent was that someone might say something to the effect of, "a stage II upgrade just requires exhaust mods and a tune will get you in the 300 hp neighborhood, but you'll need to completely redo the engine to achieve 400 hp."

 

You are also right that I have no idea how much time, money, and effort is required. That is why I came here to ask a community of people to help me out. I want to plan ahead, and figure this sort of stuff out so I'm sorry that my question and "plans" seem a bit ambitious.

[mjperk]

I do appreciate all of the helpful feedback I have gotten from everyone though, so sorry if I seem riled up.

[06silvarubiLGT]

You need to search.. Spend time on the site research what you want, see who knows there shit and send them PMs, if searching doesnt answer all your questions. It will stop you from getting flamed in these threads.

Stg 2 and a tune really wakes up the car and will give you a better feel how much power/much of a money pit you want it to be.

[Drift Motion]

honestly, stage 2.5 sounds at most 400 BHP, not WHP

[LosAngelesLGT]

Id start with a rotated 3076 or 35 setup.

[Max Capacity]

not until he understands about tuning.

 

OP don't be in hurry to spend your money. May be your in a warmed climate, but around here, winter is coming. Plan ahead.

[Nrw]

dom1.5xtr should get you there

[xero287]

Your friend had 400 whp on his buttdyno. It's HIGHLY unlikely he got even 375 bhp with stage 2.5

[fahr_side]

I got the number because I work with a guy who let me drive his "stage 2.5" STI (DD) that he claims is about 400+ hp at the wheels.

If he still has the stock turbo, I'd like to meet his tuner. If you're basing your need for 400whp on the way his car goes, revise your estimated needs back down to 330~350whp because that's probably all you'll need to keep up with him.

[Berzerklo]

I got the number because I work with a guy who let me drive his "stage 2.5" STI (DD) that he claims is about 400+ hp at the wheels.

 

Your friend is yanking your chain. There is no way he is running 400 WHP at stage 2.5 (whatever that is).

 

Stage 2 is just a downpipe and a tune... If you look at Cobb's website for 08-12 STi's Stage 2 will get you +28% HP and +38% torque. Factor in with a 20-30% driveline loss and you are way short of 400 HP.

 

Most people get to stage II and see how they like that kind of power. If you want to go stage 3 (turbo swap or supporting mods) you really need to have power goals in mind. You can just just swap for a slightly larger turbo (VF52, or BNR 18G) with upgraded fuel pump, injectors and intercooler or you can go whole hog with any variety of really expensive things (rotated set-up, twin-scroll, meth injection, E85, ect) but most of those would not be good DD's.

 

Speaking of DD's if you go crazy high HP (400 WHP is pretty high), then you will need a better bottom end. These motors have a tendency to lose pistons, but a built motor doesn't last a super long time.

 

If I were you, I would figure out exactly what you friend did to his car, and maybe we can help you figure out a better guess of the real power he is making. Then you will be able to get a feeling of how fast that power level is and we can go from there.

[dr_sharp]

I got the number because I work with a guy who let me drive his "stage 2.5" STI (DD) that he claims is about 400+ hp at the wheels. I don't know all of the stuff he's done to it; all that I can tell you is that it felt noticeably quicker than a stock STI. I've always wanted a car with some power, and his car felt good to me. That being said I did think his suspension extremely hard, along with the rigid bucket seats and so I figured an upgraded Spec.B would be a good combination of speed and luxury. I figured that if I threw out a number like 400 WHP that when I realistically ended up with 350 that I wouldn't be too sad and that the cars internals wouldn't be pushed to the max at the lower hp figure thus creating a reliable vehicle.

A stage "2.5" STI, even on E85 and with every feasible mod would max out around 350whp. With 93 octane and with the most common mods, he probably realistically had 300-320whp.

 

You might be right about not wanting that much power for a DD--I simply threw a number out there in hopes of getting some friendly feedback. The whole intent was that someone might say something to the effect of, "a stage II upgrade just requires exhaust mods and a tune will get you in the 300 hp neighborhood, but you'll need to completely redo the engine to achieve 400 hp."

That is exactly right. Stage 2 puts your around 250whp or 300bhp. And you would likely need engine internals for anything over 350whp.

 

You are also right that I have no idea how much time, money, and effort is required. That is why I came here to ask a community of people to help me out. I want to plan ahead, and figure this sort of stuff out so I'm sorry that my question and "plans" seem a bit ambitious.

There are alot of people that have been through full motor builds on these forums and almost all of them have their own thread where they have documented the trials, tribulations, costs, and delays associated with their build. I'd suggest searching and reading through a few of them before you get your heart set on 400whp or anything over 350whp for that matter.

[luchadorjose]

Yeah, the stage 2.5 STi would make *maybe* 320whp on a mustang style dyno, even 375 is unbelievable on a high reading dyno. For daily driving fun, the sweet spot is between 300 and 350 whp in the LGT, depending on your driving style. Just for reference, a stock LGT would make just under 200whp. For now, here's what my tuner recommended for a daily driven LGT, with or without turbo swap

 

Stock Turbo:

Aftermarket intercooler (top mount)

100% recirculating blow off valve

Electronic Boost Control Solenoid

One-step colder spark plugs

Downpipe (catted or catless are negligibly different)

catback (to your taste)

DW65C fuel pump (drop in, peace of mind part)

 

Anywhere from 225-275WHP depending on the dyno

 

With a VF52 or 16G turbo swap, you could add a front mount intercooler and/or equal length header, and be anywhere from 275-325whp depending on the dyno. You might also need injectors at this point

 

I'm sure I forgot one or two things here, and it was just general recommendations as to which parts go with which and when. Go for bang for your buck first, usually downpipe + tune will surprise you as far as how much power can be gained.

 

AND DON'T FORGET to support power mods responsibly with suspension and brakes. If you wanted a high power uncontrollable mess, you porbably would have gotten a muscle car instead of a Subaru

[mjperk]

Awesome, that is exactly the stuff I was look for guys. Thanks for the input, and I'll look more into what my friend was running. It's sounding pretty likely that he was feeding me some BS but I really haven't driven many moded cars and had nothing to compare to. I'll take your advice and do some more research too.

[robitrice]

anything feel significantly faster than a honda lol just playing. Like everyone else said keep looking and researching and realize just what you are getting into. Most people are amazed at what a solid Stg2 build feels like compared to stock. If i were you i would keep saving and wait for spring, get a stage 1 tune so you are off the notoriously bad subaru map and enjoy the spike in power until you are ready and have your plans figured out. 400whp is more than people think.

[LosAngelesLGT]

375-400whp is more than 99% people asking for it want (at least out of this platform).

 

Fixed and YES!

[boxkita]

I love reading threads like this. I thought I was the only one who pulled a number out of the air and handed over a blank check.

 

OP - you have alot of reading and meeting ppl/riding in their cars ahead of you. Otherwise, you're going to have alot of money wasted and frustration.

 

With a 40k SpecB, I'd fix the niggling issues and flip it. Go buy a higher mileage LGT sedan and "fix it up". You'll be happier in your rebuild.

 

Unless you are an exceptional mechanic and have access to a full shop of tools, expect your car to be out of service for several months.

 

With regards budget, start reading the "I blew engine/turbo/piston" threads. You'll get a good idea of costs/frustrations/time involved.

 

Lastly, upgrading your engine above 300 WTQ (hp doesnt get you off the line) is expensive and requires more maintenance. Being able to drive such a car safely requires upgrading the suspension and brakes, too.

 

If you do all the work yourself, 5-10k is a good ballpark for rebuilding the engine (depending on parts) + suspension upgrades + brakes + tuning costs (dyno, tactrix/cobb, etc). That's probably with low-end suspension bits and changing the brake pads.

 

If you have to hire the work out (lack of shop), your costs are going to rise. The more you have to outsource, the more you pay. Figure shop rates at $100/hr. Figure dyno time at $500/hr.

 

The ppl who tend to be successful at this, make spreadsheets of everything they are going to buy, when they bought/installed it, etc. Also what they ordered, when its expected to arrive, etc. You can expect stuff to show up late and delay your plans. If you suck at planning or rolling with the issues, you need to seriously question your ability to complete the project before you get frustrated. Think horror storeis about bulding kit cars.

 

There are a number of vendors on this forum who can help you with parts suggestions...get to know them. They can be make or break in situations.

 

All that said, good luck. Everyone who has posted has lots of experience with big builds. Read their build threads. You might also make notice of how long some of them were building.

 

When you get done, if you didnt take shortcuts, you should have the car you planned on having. Mine brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. Which makes the 6 month build time seem ok.

[CapnJack]

I love reading threads like this. I thought I was the only one who pulled a number out of the air and handed over a blank check.

 

OP - you have alot of reading and meeting ppl/riding in their cars ahead of you. Otherwise, you're going to have alot of money wasted and frustration.

 

With a 40k SpecB, I'd fix the niggling issues and flip it. Go buy a higher mileage LGT sedan and "fix it up". You'll be happier in your rebuild.

 

Unless you are an exceptional mechanic and have access to a full shop of tools, expect your car to be out of service for several months.

 

With regards budget, start reading the "I blew engine/turbo/piston" threads. You'll get a good idea of costs/frustrations/time involved.

 

Lastly, upgrading your engine above 300 WTQ (hp doesnt get you off the line) is expensive and requires more maintenance. Being able to drive such a car safely requires upgrading the suspension and brakes, too.

 

If you do all the work yourself, 5-10k is a good ballpark for rebuilding the engine (depending on parts) + suspension upgrades + brakes + tuning costs (dyno, tactrix/cobb, etc). That's probably with low-end suspension bits and changing the brake pads.

 

If you have to hire the work out (lack of shop), your costs are going to rise. The more you have to outsource, the more you pay. Figure shop rates at $100/hr. Figure dyno time at $500/hr.

 

The ppl who tend to be successful at this, make spreadsheets of everything they are going to buy, when they bought/installed it, etc. Also what they ordered, when its expected to arrive, etc. You can expect stuff to show up late and delay your plans. If you suck at planning or rolling with the issues, you need to seriously question your ability to complete the project before you get frustrated. Think horror storeis about bulding kit cars.

 

There are a number of vendors on this forum who can help you with parts suggestions...get to know them. They can be make or break in situations.

 

All that said, good luck. Everyone who has posted has lots of experience with big builds. Read their build threads. You might also make notice of how long some of them were building.

 

When you get done, if you didnt take shortcuts, you should have the car you planned on having. Mine brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. Which makes the 6 month build time seem ok.

 

 

Pretty much hit it on the head here. I started in your shoes too. Newly divorced and a fist full of cash, 400-500WHP was in my dreams. The more I read, the more my goal dropped and became more realistic. I'm now shooting for a reliable 350WHP. I have two cars. One is my DD and the other is my project car. When I start installing parts, it will be down for a least a month. This is after the year I spent collecting parts for the build(my springs have taken 12+ weeks to get here from Japan). I've purchased new where needed, and hovered the for sale forums for months waiting to swoop when I had to. Be prepared to research what brands are best that works best for you, that you can afford. When you do find what you like, hopefully someone has it in stock or is selling one. Remember this is a Subaru Legacy GT, not a Mustang or Camaro where aftermarket parts grow on trees.

 

Then comes the tuning and tweaking, choose your path wisely. Talk to your tuner upfront and ask him what parts he recommends. He might find your combination hasn't worked well in the past. Then it's back to the drawing board again. What kind of tuning do you want to do? How handy are you with a laptop? If you do E-tuning, it will take days of logging, e-mailing, logging, wash, rinse, repeat... If you go to a dyno, how are you going to get your modded car there safely? An untuned car will not run well and will most likely be in limp mode the entire drive to the tuner unless you can get them to send you a limp map to get there. What happens when you are strapped on a dyno at $300+ per hour and something goes wrong?

 

I'm by no means trying to discourage you, but to give you honest input what you are in for with a car goal like you have stated. Assuming everything works right the first time for my build, I will have several thousand stuck into this "hobby". I will NEVER see that money back. It won't be comfortable to ride in for long distances and won't get good MPGs, but it will handle well, brake well, and be fast enough.