xero287 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 You don't need an alignment machine to do the alignments. I'm getting coils because I'm also going to track the car. AND, I like when my spine goes through my neck when I go over bumps. XD I would have easily purchased the GTWORX setup with the struts and springs, but the amount of times that the order has been pushed back is outstanding. One would think that if X company gets X amount of money, that the amount of orders could increase. Somehow things don't add up for me, which is why I decided to not wait til March to get a new setup that may/may not be pushed back again due to not ordering enough stock. I'll tell everyone exactly how bad my BC's run when I receive them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I didn't say I didn't want Audi S4 handling and ride, but rather the expense involved. The spacers are home made, not an off the shelf part? Not off-the-shelf, but not "home made". They were cut on a waterjet, then the bolt holes CNC'd. The front holes are threaded to make install easier, the rears are thru-drilled. Depending on the rear top hats you use, it looks there might be some variation between model years. You may or may not have to drill them out slightly. If I had a second set of rear top hats, I could confirm fitment and correct them if needed. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natoli4 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I have the Koni/Epics with Legacy struts bodies. Too Stiff, gonna go with Legacy springs and see how it goes next summer. Going back to stock with 1" subtle spacers, snow tires and swaybars for the winter. I hear that stock with swaybars is really the way to go. compliance in a straight line with stiffness in the corners is what I'm going for...we shall see. i had the megans and they are pretty adjustable but the quality isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I trust BAC's summary of his setup. My only concern is what passes for excellent for one person might just merely be good for another. I'm basically looking at spending over $2,000 "blind" and I don't have that kind of cash under the bed. I suppose the good thing about this is that I don't need to do it right away, so I could piece it together over the next few months and look at doing the install next spring (no pun intended). The photos BAC provided are all taken from too high a perspective so I can't truly get an idea for the height. This would almost be perfect: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fIxxLlYM9jI/Ts0pUfAo4xI/AAAAAAAAAa8/8M4q95rRZlo/s800/IMAG0164.jpg I'm at about three fingers for the front wheels and slightly more for the rears. BAC, hold onto those spacers and I'm going to give this some additional thought over the next couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 You don't need an alignment machine to do the alignments. Gee, all those tire shops that bought those expensive alignment machines. They were had! The alignment shop needed to grind out one of the camber bolt holes to get the alignment where it needed to be. It's a good thing I didn't try to do it myself... Not sure how someone with a protractor can get the wheels to within .5 of a degree I'll tell everyone exactly how bad my BC's run when I receive them. I'm interested in knowing once you get them. The vendor said there was a 3-4 week order time on the BCs with Swifts. You're going for the swifts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero287 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yes, indeed I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I used a full Hunter alignment rack. I've done string-on-pavement alignments too with XenonK way back in the day. If you can do math, you can do an alignment without a rack. It definitely takes longer, but it isn't hard. With the number of people happy with the Pink/Bilstein combo, I can't imagine you'd be unhappy. But, that is your choice. If you hate it, you can always change things up. Or buy WhiteTiger's AST setup. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero287 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 ^The man speaks truths. Struts will ALWAYS, be better for ride comfort. I know what I was purchasing before I purchased it. I've driven many cars with many different setups which led to my choice in suspension. If you ultimately want great city drive-ability with no loss of cornering then the Bilstein's really are the way to go. Goodluck either way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_sheen Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 ^The man is the key to life itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 ^The man speaks truths. Struts will ALWAYS, be better for ride comfort. I know what I was purchasing before I purchased it. I've driven many cars with many different setups which led to my choice in suspension. If you ultimately want great city drive-ability with no loss of cornering then the Bilstein's really are the way to go. Goodluck either way! Yep. And you understood what you were giving up and what compromises you were making in going with the BC's. Between our cars, I bet we'd both know exactly which one would be the better "street" car, and which one would probably be more comfortable on a smooth track. The difference is, I'm not going to pretend like I'd take my car to the track just like you aren't going to pretend like driving through Baltimore city wouldn't make you pee blood for a week. Thus, completely reinforcing my point that 10/10 street cars do not need coilovers. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Did I link to the right springs up there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 BAC, would you have been comfortable takikng your setup on a track or autox occasionally? How well does the car hug the twisty back roads? Would I miss the "on rails" feeling of the coilovers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I would have been perfectly comfortable taking the car to a track or auto-x, but it wouldn't be competitive. It's a street car, not a race car, and it is set up as such. If I wanted a race car, I wouldn't use a 4th gen Legacy platform and I wouldn't try to use it as my only car. I could take the same smooth on ramps at speeds equal to or greater than I could on coilovers. The real difference is on bumpy roads. My current setup is faster than my car was when it was on coilovers, but it is definitely more complaint. There is more body roll, and it is much smoother over bumps. Again, it's a street car. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero287 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 ssbtech, why don't you have a discussion with TiC? or Myles at RCE? It sounds like you think the struts won't give you the same handling. Your megans won't handle as well as the strut spring setup, if it did, then it was placebo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I suppose I should spell out my requirements then. Sorry for all the posts, but this is a larger investment. Stable and sure footed in the twisties and mountain roads where the speed limits are 60-80MPH Minimal squat, dive and roll (Stock was terrible. I don't care it it had average slalom speeds, the feel was awful and it made me carsick and I had no confidence when the roads wrapped around a mountain with no guardrails) Comfortable over manhole covers, speed bumps, entering parking lots, etc... (Megans are quite jarring and everything I read about BCs say they're much better in this category) And I want the steering to be nice and direct, none of the vagueness that was there when it was riding high on stock springs. Although the steering rack and LCA bushings helped a bit with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Your megans won't handle as well as the strut spring setup, if it did, then it was placebo. I suppose it comes down to how each of us defines "handling". Are we defining it as seconds and speed to complete a slalom? To me, the Outback with the Megans handles much better than the stock pogo sticks. Hell, my 2003 H6 handled better. My friend drove the 05 when it was new and said it felt like my 1990 Legacy wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 OEM OBXT Springs with Konis.... -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Koni makes an Outback shock/strut? Too tall though with the Outback OEM springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 OEM OBXT Springs with Konis.... -Mike Paisan Koni doesn't make an insert for the Outback struts, and the OB springs would probably not be ideally suited to the shorter perch-to-hat Legacy struts. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero287 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 With Bilstein's you will be able to achieve: 1. Stable and sure footed in the twisties and mountain roads where the speed limits are 60-80MPH2. Minimal dive and roll3. Comfortable over manhole covers, speed bumps, entering parking lots, etc... By no means are struts a sacrifice to handling. Unless you are seriously tracking the car regular, properly valved struts matched with springs will keep you more than satisfied. If you aren't happy with the combo then you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I guess I should check the legality of the spacers here too, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 The more I think about it the more I dislike the crashing through dips and over bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero287 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Then get the struts. If you're patient someone on here is bound to sell their set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Koni doesn't make an insert for the Outback struts, and the OB springs would probably not be ideally suited to the shorter perch-to-hat Legacy struts. Agreed, but they probably would be better than coils on the street! -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg 11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts. Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 BAC, you posted this on subaruoutback.org: http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii287/bac52/attachment.png Is that your final setup? I'm still not quite sure which springs on Japanparts Do you recall what your final rear ride height was? I'm just worried it might end up looking a little saggy, even with your spacers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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