Megan upgrade

[ssbtech]

Because the OE Bilsteins aren't great.

 

And it's not confusing. It's only parts for one car, the Legacy. It's not Outback specific, but they aren't foreign chassis parts.

 

If you want a shitty, stiff ride, then get the tarted up pig-in-a-dress BC's. It sounds like that's what you really want with precursors like "if it feels even remotely floaty...". You are setting yourself up to fail with anything but cheap coilovers.

 

So there's a difference between OE Spec B Bilsteins and Tire Rack's Spec B Bilsteins?

 

I never said the coilovers didn't ride shitty and stiff. The Megans are awful in town. But the car holds the road significantly better than the wet noodles that were holding it up from the factory.

 

I just can't deal with a floaty car, it screws up my sense of balance. Criticize my preference for a flat, stable car all you want. Clearly you don't have a motion sensitivity issue like I do

 

How would you say your setup compares in terms of "roll and float" with that of a stock SpecB, Impreza, etc...?

 

I just have these horrible flashbacks to stock suspension.

 

And spacers scare me. I suppose you'd need longer studs so the tophats can still bolt to the strut tower? (Assuming that's where the spacers go?)

 

There's a reason I don't change my own oil

[ssbtech]

That height looks good. Tad low, but tolerable, I suppose. My Megans are higher than that. Any "saggy butt" issues with a few hundred lbs in the back of the car?

[BAC5.2]

So there's a difference between OE Spec B Bilsteins and Tire Rack's Spec B Bilsteins?

 

Yes. The Tire Rack ones are Bilstein HD's.

 

I never said the coilovers didn't ride shitty and stiff. The Megans are awful in town. But the car holds the road significantly better than the wet noodles that were holding it up from the factory.

 

You are dealing in extremes. The stock suspension is great for what it was intended to be (a comfortable soft-roader, not a track car, regardless of the powerplant).

 

Criticize my preference for a flat, stable car all you want. Clearly you don't have a motion sensitivity issue like I do

 

What you think is "flat" and "stable" is a joke. I drove a Megan'd Outback. Stable is not what I'd even begin to call it, unless the roads are PERFECTLY smooth. Any bumpiness through turns, and that thing was jumping all over the place unless you slowed WAY down.

 

I have a preference for street cars that are stable under all conditions. Flat, bumpy, pitted, pot-holed, anything.

 

How would you say your setup compares in terms of "roll and float" with that of a stock SpecB, Impreza, etc...?

 

Can't really say. My suspension is not remotely stock. If I compare it to our stock N/A 09 Impreza hatch, my car rides MUCH better. MUCH less bouncy, MUCH better over bumpy roads, and MUCH more comfortable. But the Impreza has a much shorter wheelbase, and that's one thing the Outback (or any Legacy) can't compete with.

 

And spacers scare me. I suppose you'd need longer studs so the tophats can still bolt to the strut tower? (Assuming that's where the spacers go?)

 

Mine are crash tested! You do need longer studs, which I've got with the spacers).

 

What scares you about spacers?

[BAC5.2]

That height looks good. Tad low, but tolerable, I suppose. My Megans are higher than that. Any "saggy butt" issues with a few hundred lbs in the back of the car?

 

I've never put a few hundred pounds in the back of the car.

 

It's definitely not too low, but that's open for anyones debate. I was concerned with geometry first, and ride height second.

[LosAngelesLGT]

So why not just buy a set of Bilstein HD's, pinks, and I have a spare set of spacers I'll sell you?

 

Thats what I need to do for the XT. The oem struts are SHOT. The wife and newborn will NOT tolerate coils.

 

Looks like you went from 4-5 fingers to 3 finger gap. Still higher up than a stock LGT.

[ssbtech]

Sweeping highway curves and cloverleaf offramps are much better with the Megans than the stock suspension. The stock suspension was hard to keep the thing straight in the lane in those conditions. It was floaty and wandering all over the place. I really noticed the thing's heft. The Megans give it the "it feels like it's on rails" feeling on the freeway and that's what I need from my next setup. I haven't felt that from any factory car with standard springs/struts.

 

I know what you mean about the Megans on bumps in curves. It does feel like it wants to bounce away from the road.

 

Spacers? I'm no engineer, but it just seems like moving the tophats lower would reduce the stability and rigidity of the mount. Almost like using a pipe on a wrench. Seems like it would be "wobbly".

 

 

Just priced out the Bilstein struts on Tire Rack. Shipped, the struts alone are just under a grand.

[BAC5.2]

Thats what I need to do for the XT. The oem struts are SHOT. The wife and newborn will NOT tolerate coils.

 

Looks like you went from 4-5 fingers to 3 finger gap. Still higher up than a stock LGT.

 

A little less than 3. Probably 2. I took measurements once, but never wrote them down.

 

Once the car is out of the bodyshop I'll remeasure.

[ssbtech]

I've never put a few hundred pounds in the back of the car.

 

 

Sadly, I do use the wagon for wagon duties.

[ssbtech]

A little less than 3. Probably 2. I took measurements once, but never wrote them down.

 

 

Once the car is out of the bodyshop I'll remeasure.

 

 

Two might be too low. I'm not going fo Audi S4 handling/ride here. I just want a better ride than the junky Megans.

 

Out of the bodyshop? Is it repairable?

[BAC5.2]

Tire Rack lists the part numbers. Just find a Canadian retailler and order from them.

 

If you were so happy with the megans, just get the BC's with the expensive springs. They aren't going to be good, but they'll drive like you say you need in exactly the two settings you listed.

[ssbtech]

What other cars have you driven that you could compare your XT's setup to?

[Chris GTO TT]

Two might be too low. I'm not going fo Audi S4 handling/ride here. I just want a better ride than the junky Megans.

 

Out of the bodyshop? Is it repairable?

 

Why not shoot for the 'perfect' ride/handling set up?

 

It seems to me that you are worried about how stiff the suspension is, and thinking stiff suspension = controlled ride. However, that is simply not correct. Under dampened is under dampened whether you are under dampened on a stiff spring or a soft one the car simply won't have the good road manners you are looking for.

 

What BAC is trying to tell you is that going to a moderately stiff spring like pinks and giving them the proper dampening will give you what you are looking for. A moderate spring will give better suspension travel than coil overs (read better ride), but the dampening will ensure that the car doesn't wallow or bob in that range of motion (read controlled ride).

 

I'm going to throw one more option at you koni and epic springs. It might be a little low for you and the install is a little more difficult, but there is a group buy on the springs and koni's don't require spec.B top hats.

 

I cannot offer personal experience with anything other than stock LGT vs stock spec.B nor can I offer a better description of how suspension components work together than BAC has already given.

[AZP Installs]

Here is a video for this thread....

 

[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8]YouTube - Trackday Comedy - FLATOUT[/ame]

 

-Mike Paisan

 

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[BAC5.2]

What other cars have you driven that you could compare your XT's setup to?

 

Take your pick of european sport sedans, and it rides like them. Firm, but not harsh. It is NOT a competition-grade suspension by any means, but that's exactly the point.

 

I dont understand what you want.

 

You don't want S4 handling/ride.

You want something better than your junky megans.

You don't want ANY body roll.

You don't want any "floatiness".

You don't want something directly connected.

You are afraid you'll make the wrong decision.

You don't want to do any work.

 

I can tell you that expensive springs are not going to substantially change the ride quality of shitty coilovers, and "custom valving" is not going to be what you might think it will be. Look at the piston/valve design of coilovers that cost $3k/corner and compare them to like what is in the BC.

 

It SOUNDS like you WANT crappy coilovers. Not BECAUSE they are crappy, but because they are cheap, easy, stiff, you don't actually care about ride quality, and you have some perceived notion that any strut/spring combo is going to have that "stock" floatiness.

 

You are setting yourself up to fail with anything other than another crappy coilover. You'll find a way to be disappointed. It doesn't matter if you get BC's or Megans, but I'd save your money on the Swifts. It's not worth putting $100/corner springs on such crappy dampers.

 

Now if the car was intended for heavy Auto-X, crappy coilovers aren't actually too terrible. The car is on a typically well groomed surface, and the range of wheel rates is fairly narrow. All you really need is a piston capable of damping those wheel rates for the spring you have, and not overheating. Any wide-rate course, or big track with tight sections, they'll start to fall apart. That's when having high/low independently adjustable comp/rebound become valuable tuning tools, as does a large oil capacity.

[whitetiger]

he should just buy my AST's and get 350lb springs. comfy and properly dampened. and they can get outback ride heights and keep the travel.

[Heedz]

he should just buy my AST's and get 350lb springs. comfy and properly dampened. and they can get outback ride heights and keep the travel.

 

Without doubt this is the best choice I have seen in a while LOL

 

Im on Konis/Swifts, it does not ride as near as "floaty" hell its stiffer than BCs on an 04wrx...

[Mark34]

If you're looking at the Bilstein with Pinks route, have you tried HKCSpeed? They have a used JDM Bilstein with Pinks already mounted for sale and I think they're already in Canada which could save you a lot. Not sure how the JDM Bilsteins compare to the HDs though.

[Chris GTO TT]

If you're looking at the Bilstein with Pinks route, have you tried HKCSpeed? They have a used JDM Bilstein with Pinks already mounted for sale and I think they're already in Canada which could save you a lot. Not sure how the JDM Bilsteins compare to the HDs though.

 

JDM Bilstein stiffness depends on the revision. From reading the stickies Rev A. is the most firm, rev B is softer and rev C is the softest and equal to USDM OEM Bilstein.

[BAC5.2]

Here is a video for this thread....

 

 

-Mike Paisan

 

 

Flatout.

[ssbtech]

I dont understand what you want.

 

You don't want S4 handling/ride.

You want something better than your junky megans.

You don't want ANY body roll.

You don't want any "floatiness".

You don't want something directly connected.

You are afraid you'll make the wrong decision.

You don't want to do any work.

 

Not sure where I said that. I also don't want it quite as low as yours. I'd love to go for that quintessential German sports sedan feel and ride, but I don't have the money, time or know-how to turn a wobbly Japanese soft-roader into a German sports sedan

 

Buy the sounds of it you've probably spent several hundred on alignments alone after all the swapping and experimenting springs and spacers.

[.Catalyst.]

Not sure where I said that. I also don't want it quite as low as yours. I'd love to go for that quintessential German sports sedan feel and ride, but I don't have the money, time or know-how to turn a wobbly Japanese soft-roader into a German sports sedan

BAC has done the work for you. When I replace my spec.B Bilsteins I'll probably be going with the HDs and have them valved for my springs. The USDM Bils on the spec are underdampened for the spring rates.

 

Buy the sounds of it you've probably spent several hundred on alignments alone after all the swapping and experimenting springs and spacers.

So leverage his knowledge and first hand experience to save you the time, cost, and hassle.

 

I think the solution of Bilstein HDs and STi Pink wagon springs with spacers is going to meet/exceed all of your requirements you've listed. Regardless of springs/valving? on the BCs you will end up feeling remorse because it's not much different than the Megans were when fresh.

[ssbtech]

If someone can put together a parts list for all the nuts and bolts and spacers I need then I can price it out and see if it fits with my budget. I'm completely useless at this stuff, don't expect me to be able to run out and get the missing bits as I have the suspension half on the car.

 

So far it's $820 CAD for the shocks alone in Canada (from Essex Distributors in Canada)

 

Springs: $421 CAD for these (PLUS $153 to ship) $574 total, plus 6% duty, 12% HST. = $680

 

$1,500 for the springs and struts. So by the time I'm done with top hats, spacers, bumpstops, more spacers when I see it's too low, installation, re-installation when I decide it needs more spacers, alignment...

 

I'm looking at well north of $2,000.

 

That and I've got $1300 coming up on tires - I'll just keep the Megans until they shake themselves apart.

[BAC5.2]

Not sure where I said that. I also don't want it quite as low as yours. I'd love to go for that quintessential German sports sedan feel and ride, but I don't have the money, time or know-how to turn a wobbly Japanese soft-roader into a German sports sedan

 

Buy the sounds of it you've probably spent several hundred on alignments alone after all the swapping and experimenting springs and spacers.

 

I'm not going fo Audi S4 handling/ride here.

 

I did the alignments and installs myself. I've had a few revisions on this car. Had I not, I'd probably have $1k+ in alignments alone. I've probably aligned my car a dozen or more times.

 

Like I said before, I'll see about getting my parts list together to post.

 

Keep in mind that I've only got ONE set of spacers, and they are up for grabs. I may not make another set. Definitely not for as little as I'm selling these.

[ssbtech]

I didn't say I didn't want Audi S4 handling and ride, but rather the expense involved.

 

The spacers are home made, not an off the shelf part?

[ssbtech]

I don't have an alignment machine to drag out into the street so I won't be doing alignments or installs myself