Oil usage poll

[wukindada]

Ever since the switch to 10W30 consumption for 5K is less than a half quart:)

I was going through almost a full quart with 5W30:eek:

[BadAndy]

I switched to Shell Rotella T 5w40 at 1500 miles, changed it at 6500 and I just rolled over 10K last night coming home from work. For this winter I'll probably throw in some Wal-Mart Super Tech 5w30 synthetic and switch back to the Rotella T 5w40 when summer weather starts up again. I haven't noticed any loss of oil since getting the car back in February this year.

[Limeade]

Oil consumption isn't necessarily a forecast for future trouble. My understanding is that the WRX's and STI's have the same issue.

 

More than likely, it is just due to the extra blowby due to the boost and the ring and ring land design. It doesn't mean that you are going to have failures down the road.

 

More than likely, the consumption rate will decline as the engine breaks in.

 

I am currently at 16,000 miles and I am using about 1/2 to 3/4 quart between changes (5,000 mile intervals). Originally, I was using more like a quart.....

 

Thats your problem.

[scoobyGTlover]

My LGT5MT has 8800km and not a drop of oil used.My LGT is dealer maintained at factory service intervals. My previous 99LGT5MT wagon had 84000km when I traded it in and again not a drop of oil used,again dealer maintained.In both cars I was very gentle during break in period, I guess that makes a difference.I read that with the mitsu EVOs the break in period is crucial for oil consumption.

[biturbowagon]

Not necessarily.

 

If your engine uses a lot of oil, that can be an indicator of a problem, whether minor (easy-to-fix leak somewhere) or major (engine teardown needed, or worse). My old '75 Buick used a quart of oil each 800 miles or so near the end of my ownership of it. My guess is that it needed top end work, but I left that problem (with full disclosure) to the next owner.

 

New engines sometimes start off using oil, then gradually taper off. One theory as to why is that the piston rings take some time to seat fully. Here are two examples in my experience. My Audi started off life using almost a quart every 4-5K miles, but now uses no appreciable amount between oil changes. My '98 BMW motorcycle started off using a quart every 1,000 miles, but now is down to about 1/2 quart every 3K miles or so.

 

Some engines use oil by design. Mazda rotaries come immediately to mind.

 

It is important to keep an eye on oil consumption. A little bit can be normal. More worrisome is a rapid change in oil consumption.

 

 

maybe I dont know much about turbo cars but isn't oil usage usually a sign of a serious problem? and should NEVER occur in a new car? or even a car newer than 10 years old for that matter?

[mccorry]

Don't discount our engine configuration as a big part, as well. A horizontally opposed flat-4 doesn't have gravity to help scavenge the oil out of the bottom of the cylinders.

 

Add to that the fact that we run boost (greater blowby) and our oiling systems contain squirters for the pistons (greater atomization of the oil) and it can add up.

 

In an old V-8, gravity helps everything get back to the oil pan.

[TSiWRX]

My LGT5MT has 8800km and not a drop of oil used.My LGT is dealer maintained at factory service intervals. My previous 99LGT5MT wagon had 84000km when I traded it in and again not a drop of oil used,again dealer maintained.In both cars I was very gentle during break in period, I guess that makes a difference.I read that with the mitsu EVOs the break in period is crucial for oil consumption.

 

^ The 4G63, turbocharged or not, has known to favor a "soft break-in period."

 

Definitely, by all means, not an across-the-board statement, even within the 4G63 community, but it seems to have been a trend with DSMs, even if only by a small margin.

 

With modern Scoobys, this is highly debateable, and the two, I feel, should not be cross-compared.

[melayout]

Finally, so it wasn't my driving or synthetic oil, but instead a leaky turbo oil seal that is the root cause of my excessive oil consumption(1 quart / 900 miles).

 

What would lead to a leaky turbo oil seal and what can be done proactively to avoid this issue?

[edmundu]

Finally, so it wasn't my driving or synthetic oil, but instead a leaky turbo oil seal that is the root cause of my excessive oil consumption(1 quart / 900 miles).

 

What would lead to a leaky turbo oil seal and what can be done proactively to avoid this issue?

 

More than likely a misassembled turbo? I'm assuming it was the center cartridge seal? Or was it the return line seal? But then you would have seen the oil weeping over time.

 

At least it's now fixed!

[melayout]

fixed, HAHAHAHA

 

I just got the call from the dealer, he is waiting on a reply from SoA about the turbo issue and then there is the 5EAT issue, which a whole other thing.

 

It is gonna be a long month, grrrrrrrrrrr.

[jc51373]

I am reading an noticing some people here do 5000 mile oil changes?? Is that because you are using synthetic?

 

I gotta be honest here, you guys are great, but being a new owner and reading these boards all the time is freaking me out! Burn oil? A $32,000 car burning oil? I have only red lined mine a few times with 700 miles now, but now I freaked out that I screwed the thing up and it will burn oil. Kiddin....

 

No but really, burning oil is not something any modern car should do IMO. Hopefully I don't experience this problem.

[deneb]

Modern dino oils are fine for 5k oil change intervals in most cases. 3k oil change is a myth perpetrated by the oil change business.

[mccorry]

I agree... I did 3K changes for years and have changed to 5K based on results.

[Beanboy]

Err, many a fine 50K+ vehicle uses oil/has had trouble with failure based on oil. E46 M3 comes to mind...

 

http://www.mbmw.com/e46_m3_engine_failure.htm

BMW has extended factory warranties on more than 17,000 M3 six-cylinder engines—a powerplant some owners have referred to as the “Engine of Damocles”—while it investigates the cause of a number of engine failures.

 

RX-8 uses, what, a quart every 3K on average?

 

-B

[deneb]

It doesn't appear based on that link that the frequency of oil changes had anything to do with engine failures, but rather it seemed related to viscosity.

[Beanboy]

Just responding to the quote below talking about a $32K car burning (which can be a misnomer)/using oil. There are more expensive cars out there that have engine failures based on oil, and others that use much more oil and is considered normal. Sludge issues on Toyota V6 models also come to mind.

 

"A $32,000 car burning oil? I have only red lined mine a few times with 700 miles now, but now I freaked out that I screwed the thing up and it will burn oil. Kiddin....

 

No but really, burning oil is not something any modern car should do IMO. Hopefully I don't experience this problem."

[OB Lee]

We now have 12,000 miles on our '05 OB 2.5i and it has had surprising oil consumption since new. I am not sure at what point I should begin waiving the red flag and making a fuss. Although I am a die hard Mobil 1 fan in our other cars for years, we have let the dealership do the 3k mile changes because we saw early oil consumption and wanted to have it in their own records in case a situation does arise.

 

The first change at 3k used about 2+ quarts (I put one in and it was off the stick again at 3k). Took it to the dealer for the change and they said "Just bring it in and we will monitor it, don't top it off". Each subsequent change at 6k, 9k and 12k the oil continues to be off the stick. Anyone know exactly how much the stick indicates? The last time this was discussed with the dealer, they said "Subaru says up to 1 qt./1k miles is acceptable" and I getting tired of it. I'm tempted to ask for something in writing ike a bulletin fro Subaru that states this. Any break-in issues should be long since passed by 12k miles. It has no leaks and shows no signs of smoking although the catalytic would probably burn any vapor. The dealership said they ran a 'scope up the exhaust and the catalytic looks fine.

 

At what time do I cry foul and start asking stronger questions? I would have switched to Mobil1 certainly by now but know that you don't put synthetics in non-oil tight engines or it will go away even faster. Talked to my dad last night about it and he recalled back in the '60s when some British cars had oil rings installed backwards and it allowed oil to get in the chambers pretty easily. He says the ECU may be seeing evidence of the oil in the exhaust gases and leaning the mixture out even further. He suggested I try the synthetic which the ECU might not see as unspent fuel and then not compensate for it. My 230,000 miles Honda CRX has a leaky front main seal and it leaves some visible oil drips every night when I park it and it does not use as much oil as our new OB.

 

According to the attached poll, my car fits in the highest consumption and least common category. Is it time to start barking? And to whom? This is my first Subaru so I don't know the ladder above the local dealership. Each oil change trip thus far has had two or three other warranty inspections (it will get a new ECU for faulty cruise control and a new radio for switching from radio to CD or vice versa on its own soon) and this seems like a surprising number of issues to me.

[Ed_T]

OB Lee time to start making noise. That's a lot of consumption and you're starting to accumulate miles.

 

A factory rep needs to look at your car. Guaranteed after all is said and done, he'll probably say its "normal consumption". Stand your ground. There was a Russian not that long ago posting on alt.autos.subaru about wicked consumption problems with some Subie's over there.

 

I do 7,500 mile oil changes. This summer I used ~1/3 qt. over that mileage, what with the turbo and AC load and stepping on it all the time, I should have gone through nearly your amount of consumption. Mobil1 10w-30.

 

If factory cannot (will not) fix this, try a different weight, like a 5w-40. Or try a 'sticky' 10w-30 (Castrol GTX used to be that way but I haven't used it in eons so it could very well be quite different now.) Lots of reports on BITOG of reduced//eliminated usage by going to a different oil. But if your oil control rings were installed upside-down, the problem might decrease only somewhat.

 

Some engines 'like' certain oils. The bulk oil your dealer is using might be incompatible with your engine because of the way it was built and//or broken in. A pussyfoot breakin is usually bad for ring seating.

 

If you have improperly installed rings you might want to have an independant mechanic stick a scope through each spark plug hole to view and photo any damage to the cylinder walls. One fellow with a new GM pickup did this because his piston slap was so bad, and ended up successfully returning the vehicle for a refund. His walls were scoring badly. While the plugs are out have the mechanic check them for evidence of oil burning. If you are burning, throw a new set in and show the pulled plugs to the factory rep. SOA is reputedly very chintzy with customer satisfaction issues so you'll prolly need to 'stick it in their faces'.

 

Perhaps consider legal action and/or threaten to use it. That's a lot of oil to go through.

 

One other thing is reading the stick on these engines is tricky. There's a lot in the threads about this. Being underfilled at the oil change because of lousy stick readings could cause the 'problem'.

 

Plz. post back with how this goes, as it will help others with these problems.

[abakja1]

I dunno about you guys,..but Im having a hard time reading my dip stick,...

 

From the front, it may look full, but from the rear or other side, the level seems to be only 3/4 full,..and I check when the engine is warm still,..Heard reading the dip stick when hot maybe off since not all the oil may get back to the oil sump.,...guess its hard to measure since the oil isnt too dirty (or blackish in color), but come on, Im left in confusion here,...

 

Currently I got 8k miles, use Pennzoil 5w-30 and no oil leaks (that I know of),...My turbo'd Mitsu GSX never gave me so much hassel about checking the oil,...

[jc51373]

Someone else made a good point about te engine design and how the oil settles in a Boxer motor. I typically check mine in the morning before I start it, and I have not been burning a drop.

 

I don't know what it has to do with, break in, weather, oil type etc. But I never beat on my car or drive it too hard. I am changing the oil every 2K for the first 10K, just to make sure everything seats properly.

 

I think with turbos this is a side-effect at times. You get some blow-by with all the pressure in the motor.

 

Try and check it when the motor is cold and then let us know.

[JBLU24]

i think it depends on the oil too.....my previous oil change i had castrol gtx 5w30 and i added 2 quarts between changes....i guess about 1qt/1500 or so miles....maybe less miles-

last time i used some motorcraft 5w30 i had laying around and 2700 miles later hasnt burned a drop...

 

as far as checking- make sure youre not pointing the dipstick down when trying to read it and by the time u flip it over to see the back the oil has slid down the d-s a lil......

[OB Lee]

I dunno about you guys,..but Im having a hard time reading my dip stick,...

 

From the front, it may look full, but from the rear or other side, the level seems to be only 3/4 full,..and I check when the engine is warm still,..Heard reading the dip stick when hot maybe off since not all the oil may get back to the oil sump.

I too noticed this the other day when checking. We had been out for a drive and I pulled into the garage and the car sat for 5 minutes as surely that is long enough for oil to go back down to where it belongs. The car had exactly 1000 miles since the last oil change at the dealer.

 

The dipstick top has a yellow handle with a finger loop on it. I found through repeated back to back trials that if the finger loop points forward, the dipstick would show the oil level to be 1/4 qt. low. If I wiped it off and inserted it with the finger loop pointed backward toward the windshield, the dipstick would read at the Full hole. If I wipe it off and repeat on either side, I would get the same results. I have had long dipsticks in the past that had to go through twisty, convoluted tubes (my old GMC van's was about 4 ft. long) such that if the dipstick brushed the side of the tube, it could give a falsely high reading by touching oil higher than the real level. This is the only thing I could think of for the Subaru but odd that it was always 1/4 qt. and so repeatable.

 

We had the car in to the dealer for a warranty radio replacement and location of a mystery "electricity on when car off and key removed" situation. I had my wife ask them them to top the car off to what they call full and about turning the dipstick so at least we would be using the same measure process to track the oil usage. They just gave her the dolt's response "Maybe you weren't pushing it in all the way." Had I received that clueless response, I would have pursued it but she let it go.

 

We drop the car of tonight at the dealer for a week to have the ECM sent back to Subaru for reflashing for a cruise control problem (anyone else seeing a trend here?) and I will today show my wife the two readings you get by rotating the dipstick. At least after the 1000 miles, it was only reading 1/4 qt. max low and not 1 qt. to off the dipstick like it has before. She loves the car and it was great fun to play the other night in the first major snowfall but I have never had any car go to a dealer for problems this many times in the whole life of a car, much less the first 12,000 miles.