Screamin Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I did a search and really didn't find anything. I've got a local guy who knows these cars inside and out and can do a custom tune for $200. He said he could gain me drive-ability and 30-40 hp/tq completely stock, I plan on doing at least a uppipe while I'm at it and further bolt on mods later. I've also been looking at the Cobb tuner. Now, I'm used to my GM's and EFI Live tuning, custom all the way. The hand held tuners available for GM's suck so I've never been too keen on a "general" handheld tunes. However, I do like how Cobb offers an economy tune, I'd love to gain 2-6MPG and be able to switch back and fourth with tunes. What are the pro's/con's from one to another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted May 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 7, 2012 The Cobb is pretty good, but the tune will not be as good as a protune built specifically for your car (obviously...). If you plan on doing various upgrades for a bit, it might be best to pick up an AP and use that for a bit. When you are settled on your power mods, go ahead and get a protune. You can either keep the AP and use that still or go opensource with a $12 VAG-COM cable and a laptop and sell off the AP. You should be able to get just about what you pay for the AP upfront if you keep it in good condition. Cobb will take you through stage 2 (downpipe, up pipe, CBE). Much beyond that and you'll need a protune either way. Do not use an aftermarket intake with the cobb maps. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamin Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thanks, that's kind of what I figured. Sounds like the "generic" tunes are better from Cobb than what all the other handhelds do for GM cars. I planned on getting a Cobb anyway just cuz of the economy tune for my daily driving. After I get all my bolt on stuff done I'll have the local guy tune my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utmost Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Just a side... I like my AP, but I drive 110 miles a day, and with the economy map didn't notice a bit of difference in the mpg, just my ability to pass on the highway. The basic 91 map upped my mpg a few, but the economy map didn't change it. (I average 27-30 mpg) The power difference with just that OTS map is incredible. The valet mode and anti-theft mode are great as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBB Tuning Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 The AccessPORT comes preloaded with Stage 1 and Stage 2 maps, but tuners can also create custom maps and put them on the AP using AccessTUNER so you can quickly switch between them. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm200 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Based on the COBB map notes for stage 1 and 2, there is quite a bit of power gained with the accessport for the 05-07 legacy, I think the stg1 mapnotes say 14%hp/13%tq (MUCH less for the 08/09, 4%hp/9%tq, not sure why ). I'm content with the accessport and you gain more than just a stage 1 map. Its an investment towards stage 2, you pay once for both maps opposed to a custom stage 1 now and another custom stage 2 later. The accessport also allows for conveneint on the fly datalogging/monitoring. Also has the ability to log performance data (mostly for comparison when upgrading parts). If you have a manual transmission you also gain launch control and flat foot shifting. Comparing the accessport to an opensource tune isnt really comparing apples to apples. You are paying for more than just a tune. Biggest thing for me is that I can always have the AP with me in the car, where I would not carry my laptop around. If you are simply after the most power for your setup, at the lowest price, and you already have a laptop, go opensource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPeC.B_MaZTer Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why no intake with the COBB maps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 because no wideband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot378 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 because no wideband. Could you explain this a little bit more? Not sure exactly what wideband refers to. And what about using the Cobb intake? Don't they have maps specifically designed for that intake? Is that still dangerous to use? It seems like that shouldn't cause problems if they're designing a map for their own intake, but I really have no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Get a good custom tune. Cobb OTS maps are just rubbish they bundle with the hardware to make the deal look more attractive. There are a lot more tuners using opensource tools than the AP. Very few people learn to tune using the AP, so most of the community know-how is focused around opensource tools. A great many pro tuners will cut you a deal on a re-tune if you bring your car back later with some added parts. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Both my cars are on the Cobb AP, because I'm not good with a laptop and all that computer stuff. My 05 has a custom tune on the dyno that my Tuner has loaded into the AP. My 09 is at Cobb Stage 1 but as soon as I get around to it, it well have my Tuner work his magic on it. Either way you don't want these cars on the stock map, it is really not that good for the valves. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBB Tuning Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Get a good custom tune. Cobb OTS maps are just rubbish they bundle with the hardware to make the deal look more attractive. There are a lot more tuners using opensource tools than the AP. Very few people learn to tune using the AP, so most of the community know-how is focused around opensource tools. A great many pro tuners will cut you a deal on a re-tune if you bring your car back later with some added parts. In some cases the 2005-2009 maps work only "ok", but they are a great starting point for custom tuning. The newer LGT maps perform really well and the 2008+WRX/STI maps are making some great power. We also recently re-did our 2002-2005 WRX maps to make more and smoother power. The AP is a very popular tuning tool and now with Speed Density tuning, some of the biggest HP Subarus in the country are running the AccessPORT! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways the Seven Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Subscribed Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2 -Brandon 2007 Chevrolet Suburban LT3 1981 Chevrolet C10 LWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 In some cases the 2005-2009 maps work only "ok", but they are a great starting point for custom tuning. Most people who are going to custom tune are going to do so on opensource tools, which have a bigger community of knowledgeable users to back them up. That same community has put a lot of base maps out there, MAF scalings and all sorts of tweaks. The newer LGT maps perform really well and the 2008+WRX/STI maps are making some great power. We also recently re-did our 2002-2005 WRX maps to make more and smoother power. Perhaps, but a canned tune is always going to be inferior to a custom tune regardless of the system used to edit and flash it to the ECU, and when you remove the cost of the AP from the equation, a custom tune via opensource tools is cheaper. The AP is a very popular tuning tool and now with Speed Density tuning, some of the biggest HP Subarus in the country are running the AccessPORT! Speed Density is now available for many ECUs with opensource tools, and more are being developed everyday. Very exciting times for Subaru owners... we're lucky to have so much choice now. I look back to the dark days when EcuTek was the only game in town and shudder. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeeeeYa Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Personally, I wouldn't touch Open Source tuning. The Cobb AP is significantly superior for anyone with a brain who wants their car with not only more horsepower, but safer horsepower. The AP is full of tools to enable those important goals. Virtually all ECU parameters are available at the touch of a button for inspection and evaluation. Changes to timing if you get a tank of bad gas is available virtually instantly, among the many special features that accompany an AP. And logging could not be easier, requiring, again, merely the touch of a button. For those who have the ability the Cobb AP comes with tuning software that is as good as it gets... AND, it is constantly being upgraded and improved by the professionals at Cobb, not some part-timers in backrooms hacking OS experimentally. So whether you are an experienced self-tuner, or aspire to be, the Cobb AccessPort provides the state-of-the-art equipment and the software to enable whatever your goals are. Novices can benefit instantly from the preloaded tunes, or from tunes loaded onto their APs by professional tuners. All can then be monitored for safety and performance. Those more experienced can make their own tunes, rivaling most professionals and significantly better than some. In many cases, like here where I live, there are ZERO tuners of any merit and an OS tune requires significant travel. ANY change thereafter for equipment changes or to correct a tune's safety or performance issue will require the same significant travel... meanwhile, you are screwed. Not so with the AP. It is as close as your front door and help is as close as your phone. Upgrades are automatic and seamless. So compare the EBay bargain equipment and pieced together backyard software of OS against Cobb's state-of-the-art products when you make a decision of what to entrust your car's engine to. Search. It is well known that Subaru's pistons have suffered a lot of bad press. It is less well known that there are respected voices in the professional community who attribute the bulk of those piston failures to OS tuning. Your choice. I have used Cobb's tools successfully for over seven years now. I started with eTunes then moved to ProTunes on dynos done by professionals. I learned, and moved on to better, safer tuning of my own... again, using Cobb's AP and software. With both OS and Cobb tools and software in my hands, and the skill to use them, I chose Cobb's. One more thing, read the warranty on what you get... if there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp583 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Ok...If i have a KN Intake and the rest of my 08LGT is stock is it best to get an AP or Tactrix + OS tune from a vendor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too laff79 Posted May 30, 2012 I Donated Too Share Posted May 30, 2012 Ok...If i have a KN Intake and the rest of my 08LGT is stock is it best to get an AP or Tactrix + OS tune from a vendor? you dont need an intake if your "stock." Cobb doesn't tune for that either way. Just get a Tactrix and OS tune stage 1. Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Ok...If i have a KN Intake and the rest of my 08LGT is stock is it best to get an AP or Tactrix + OS tune from a vendor? Ditch the intake, it isn't doing you any good. There are good MAF scale tables in the public domain for you if you can't live without the noise. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp583 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I kind of sold the stock airbox before knowing about stuff so i'll be keeping the intake on out of necessity. Does that mean i don't need a custom OS tune but can find one readily available that accounts for the KN intake, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It's the Typhoon intake? I have a good scaling for that you can use with a stock tune, or could be used in a custom tune to save your tuner some time. You should always, always confirm AFR with a WBO2 when fitting intakes or changing MAF scaling. IIWY I'd just trade the K&N for a stock intake plus cash. I just don't believe the oiled cone filters do as good a job of keeping crap out of your engine as the stock paper ones, and it's a pain in the ass cleaning that oil off the MAF sensor all the time. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadal4Hand Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2011-lgt-just-got-tuned-cobb-socal-180397.html?t=180397&highlight=socal+cobb +2 hp but 67 tq over stock baseline w/Cobb protune. Worth every penny. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2011-lgt-just-got-tuned-cobb-socal-180397.html?t=180397&highlight=socal+cobb +2 hp but 67 tq over stock baseline w/Cobb protune. Worth every penny. ^_^ uhh, not worth every penny. 241whp = stock tune, 264whp cobb accessport stage 1 tune, 288whp = accesstuner tune [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd-_-HPyvsY&feature=youtube]BrenTuning 2010 Subaru Legacy GT "Stage 1" 289whp/355wtq - YouTube[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2011-lgt-just-got-tuned-cobb-socal-180397.html?t=180397&highlight=socal+cobb +2 hp but 67 tq over stock baseline w/Cobb protune. Worth every penny. ^_^ You could have gotten the same thing with opensource tools for less pennies. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx045 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 the 2010+ definitions aren't available yet, atleast on RR forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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