MatsuDano Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I like subaru because they deliver less for more money and that makes it different, just like me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I like subaru because they deliver less for more money and that makes it different, just like me! The value proposition of Subaru's has always been a big selling point in my mind as well. I will be interested to see how the new Impreza wagon stacks up in the bang for the buck department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithAkaMrak Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Regarding the AWD fuel economy penalty: One of the reasons I went with a Legacy is because they were one of the few AWD cars available. The other options were more expensive (Audi, Lexus) and/or got worse mileage (Ford Fusion V6) or were generally lower in terms of quality or features (Caliber, Suzuki SX4). Comparing it to FWD non-hybrid midsizers, its main competitors, it wasn't that big of a mileage hit. While the Camry/Accord/Sonata were ~1-4 mpg better, the Mazda6 and Fusion were within 1 mpg of the Legacy. The CVT Legacy narrowed the gap with most of its FWD competition (which was also improving), and the CVT Impreza will do the same, only it's making a lot bigger jump by putting in a new transmission and a new, smaller displacement engine. It's moving from the back of the pack to competitive. So for these two models, the AWD fuel economy penalty is pretty slim. They trail the fuel economy champs in their segments (Sonata and Elantra) by 4 mpg hwy. That's the biggest gap, until you compare special eco trims, hybrids and diesels. For the Forester and Outback, maybe AWD isn't a unique feature in the segment, as all the competition have AWD or 4WD in some form. But for Impreza and Legacy, there's really only the Kizashi, which seems to be a pretty decent car, but from an automotive brand with even less cachet than Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swansack Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If made just a bit longer, this would be a pretty sweet new generation LGT. Maybe thats why it isn't going into production...they are saving the sexiness for us. But probably not. For comparison purposes, here's the concept. http://www.thetorquereport.com/subaru_impreza_design_concept_3.jpg I have an addiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstefanic Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If made just a bit longer, this would be a pretty sweet new generation LGT. Maybe thats why it isn't going into production...they are saving the sexiness for us. But probably not. Photoshop and I don't get along whatsoever, but you get the idea... I would buy 3 of these. http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4922/subaruimprezadesignconc.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 On par, really? The Accord and Camry both offered 5 speed autos, the base Legacy could only be had with a 4 speed until 2010 when they switched to CVT. Now the Camry can be had with a 6-speed. Subaru was also late to the game getting stability control as an option except on top line models until 2008. The Legacy also had much less interior room than the competition which turned off a lot of family buyers. Fuel economy also always lagged the competition because of the AWD penalty. I'm no Toyota or Honda fan, but they had what most buyers wanted and when you look on paper, the Legacy lagged. The only advantage they had was AWD as most consumers could care less about driving dynamics. It's gonna be a hard sell to convince people in the south of the benefits of AWD and to take the mileage and price penalty. 2010 Legacy... not the 2005. The Legacy had better MPG than the Galant, Passat, S40, Fusion, Mazda 6, Malibu, Avenger, Accord, G6, and Altima when it debuted. The Sonata had 1 MPG better hwy but the Legacy had 1mpg better city. The Camry had 2 Mpg better hwy, but the Legacy had 1 MPG better city. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityGear Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 equal length manifold for wrx!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Regarding the AWD fuel economy penalty: One of the reasons I went with a Legacy is because they were one of the few AWD cars available. The other options were more expensive (Audi, Lexus) and/or got worse mileage (Ford Fusion V6) or were generally lower in terms of quality or features (Caliber, Suzuki SX4). Comparing it to FWD non-hybrid midsizers, its main competitors, it wasn't that big of a mileage hit. While the Camry/Accord/Sonata were ~1-4 mpg better, the Mazda6 and Fusion were within 1 mpg of the Legacy. The CVT Legacy narrowed the gap with most of its FWD competition (which was also improving), and the CVT Impreza will do the same, only it's making a lot bigger jump by putting in a new transmission and a new, smaller displacement engine. It's moving from the back of the pack to competitive. So for these two models, the AWD fuel economy penalty is pretty slim. They trail the fuel economy champs in their segments (Sonata and Elantra) by 4 mpg hwy. That's the biggest gap, until you compare special eco trims, hybrids and diesels. For the Forester and Outback, maybe AWD isn't a unique feature in the segment, as all the competition have AWD or 4WD in some form. But for Impreza and Legacy, there's really only the Kizashi, which seems to be a pretty decent car, but from an automotive brand with even less cachet than Subaru. My argument is that it will be hard to convince people of the benefits of AWD, espcially those that don't live in the snow belt. I would have to say the benefits of AWD are pretty much nil for those who don't drive in snow, and minimal for those in the snow belt assuming winter tires and/or FWD is used. I would say less that 5% of the population acually NEEDS AWD. I know here in Iowa I have and can get by just fine with FWD even with all season tires. So far, Subaru as well as other manufactures have done a good job of selling people AWD technology they don't need. How long they can continue to do that in the face of increasing gas prices is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'm underwhelmed, but I'd still like to see it in some sportier trim with a nice set of 5 or 6 spoke alloy wheels. Might help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 My argument is that it will be hard to convince people of the benefits of AWD, espcially those that don't live in the snow belt. I would have to say the benefits of AWD are pretty much nil for those who don't drive in snow, and minimal for those in the snow belt assuming winter tires and/or FWD is used. I would say less that 5% of the population acually NEEDS AWD. I know here in Iowa I have and can get by just fine with FWD even with all season tires. So far, Subaru as well as other manufactures have done a good job of selling people AWD technology they don't need. How long they can continue to do that in the face of increasing gas prices is anyone's guess. I don't think selling AWD is as tough as people think. I think part of the reason people buy SUVs/CUVs is due to the perception that they can take them offroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 My argument is that it will be hard to convince people of the benefits of AWD, espcially those that don't live in the snow belt. I would have to say the benefits of AWD are pretty much nil for those who don't drive in snow, and minimal for those in the snow belt assuming winter tires and/or FWD is used. I would say less that 5% of the population acually NEEDS AWD. I know here in Iowa I have and can get by just fine with FWD even with all season tires. So far, Subaru as well as other manufactures have done a good job of selling people AWD technology they don't need. How long they can continue to do that in the face of increasing gas prices is anyone's guess. Living in a country with snow I would say that it's the snow around the freezing point that is the worst snow you can get - and there the AWD makes a difference. But the AWD also makes a huge difference when it comes to control over your car - regardless of the ESP and VDC features. But it requires a bit more of the driver to understand and manage the car with AWD. FWD cars has a tendency to just plow straight ahead by consistent understeer, RWD cars has a surprising ability to get oversteer when you don't want it while AWD allows you to get both - and with some skill you can even keep a good balance between the two. As for driving in conditions when it's more than 10 degrees below freezing and there is no salt on the roads - then it's nice to have AWD but you can do well with a non-AWD car too. I have tried that too... And don't need AWD - that may be for you, but everything that gives me an extra edge when it comes to avoid having to bring out the snow shovel is worth something. Getting stuck in the middle of nowhere where the distance to the next house is over a mile isn't my idea of fun. You also have to compare the cars on an equal basis - same size and type of car between brands before comparing fuel consumption. And don't forget that right now the Legacy gasoline engine is an old construction but that there is a new one coming up that is available in the Forester and that will end up in the others in the future too. As for the AWD causing a higher fuel consumption - it may play somewhat of a role, but if you look at competitors and their AWD cars you find that they are often more expensive and consumes a lot more fuel - they are playing (or trying to play) in the premium segment. So what you get for the money I would say that the Subies do well. As for gas prices - they are closing in on $9/gallon here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseH Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I would say that it's the snow around the freezing point that is the worst snow you can get - and there the AWD makes a difference. Agreed eleventybillion %. Here in NNJ, we get snow, not in the volume that an upstate NY'er, Vermont, or other more Northern States, but what we get is snow that slightly melts, then re-freezes, then melts then freezes over and over and over. Ice and granular snow is our #1 issue, and although a good car w/ snow tires works well, an AWD is decidedly better. I've driven RWD, FWD, and AWD cars, and I will not get anything but an AWD from this point forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanGT Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 If they do hit 36 mpg hwy, that'll put it just 2 mpg shy of the new Focus, and on par with the Cruze. displ. hp/torque trans city/hwy mpg Impreza 2012: 2.0L 146/145 CVT ?/36 Civic 2012: 1.8L 140/? 5 spd auto ?/39 Focus 2012: 2.0L 160/146 6 spd dual-cluth auto 28/38 Elantra 2011: 1.8L 148/131 6 spd auto 29/40 Cruze 2011: 1.4L T 138/148 6 spd auto 24/36 And visual comparison: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5223/5595681294_43f13ddab2_o.jpg The Legacy held this honor for MY2010, and 2nd place in MY2011 (beaten only by the Countryman All4 manual). Edmunds Inside Line: Of the cars listed above, Imprezza - under-styled / Mini-Me of the 5th Gen Legacy / smaller dosage of fugly Elantra - over-styled Cruze - already looks like a turd Civic - iconic / cult following Focus - best looking of the lot! . . I have enough drama for now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ in PA Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 It's not a bad looking car, but I definitely think Subaru styling peaked with the 4th gen Legacy, and it's been all downhill since. The Impreza concept was definitely sleeker, but I figured they'd have to raise the canopy for headroom. I actually prefer the separate C pillar glass behind the back door that used to be a Subaru trait, and can be seen on the Ford Focus. At least they didn't put in a cheesy looking plastic filler piece in the C pillar - a la the Chevy Cruze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I don't think selling AWD is as tough as people think. I think part of the reason people buy SUVs/CUVs is due to the perception that they can take them offroad. Who is going to be taking a Legacy or Impreza offroad or even think that you could? On the CUV/SUV front Subaru has a lot of competition so they don't really have an advantage there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueWhiteBoy Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Who is going to be taking a Legacy or Impreza offroad or even think that you could? On the CUV/SUV front Subaru has a lot of competition so they don't really have an advantage there. Just show a couple old rally clips. People really aren't the brightest anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Of the cars listed above, Imprezza - under-styled / Mini-Me of the 5th Gen Legacy / smaller dosage Every time I see Imprezza I think of this: http://www.lordpercy.com/JuraImpressaF90.jpg Using a single Z makes me think of the car. Aside from that - I prefer cars without too much styling and the new Impreza is more like the 4th gen Legacy than previous generations of Impreza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 So because it's an entry level car, it's gotta look like crap? Cadillac bases their high performance model on their grandma-mobile and did a good job of making both look good. Are you referring to the CTS? If so, I counter with several points: 1. A CTS is not a grandma-mobile 2. A CTS starts at 38,990 vs. 17,500 3. I still think they could do a better job with the styling, but I think they deserve some slack for the tremendously difficult task Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinerMonkey Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 IMO the Kia Optima is the best looking car in the mid-sized segment. Imagine that, a KIA is the best looking car? Why can't Subaru hire just one Italian designer. But even the Optima has quite a few sytling faults. I realize the 2005-2009 Legacy was an anomoly but why can't they reproduce that success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I'm really liking that Elantra... "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsquarewi Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Every time I see Imprezza I think of this: http://www.lordpercy.com/JuraImpressaF90.jpg That actually looks exactly like the 5th Gen Legacy and Tribecca center console. Is it made of fake aluminum too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/04/03-2012-subaru-impreza-spy-shots.jpg http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/04/01-2012-subaru-impreza-spy-shots.jpg rear looks a cross of a GG and the 4th gen legacy. Front is...... horrible. If you don't vote Trump, out, you're a bigot who hates america. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WraithAkaMrak Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/08/spy-shots-2012-subaru-impreza-shows-its-face/ *edit* Beaten by seconds, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Dagwood Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Hmm. As base models go...it looks pretty much like any other generation of base model impreza. But I do see hope in there for the wrx and sti. Try to imagine it a little lower, with alloys, black-housing projector headlights, fogs, fender flares, a wingless grille, and a scoop. I'm gonna cling to hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 It looks like a Saturn. Those side mirrors are UGLY as sin. I wholeheartedly despise front side windows that are split. The trunk will be almost useless: like the current gen: very low loading ability despite larger trunk. Headlights - going back in time and away from modern optics. It is horrible I like nothing about it. Even the exhaust muffler looks el cheapo. By comparison, the current gen Impreza hatchback looks like a Spaceship that I would actually love to own if I did not have an even better looking Subaru already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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