rao Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 No. http://www.legacygt.com Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have the Gates kevlar belt. If I had to do it over again I would go with the OEM STi belt and all OEM accessories including water pump. Thanks for the info, I already decided against the gates kit based on price... the kevlar was much more $. OEM for me. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Kevlar is a lot stronger and better suited to spirited driving Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks for the info, I already decided against the gates kit based on price... the kevlar was much more $. OEM for me. Maybe of you waited 25k miles, you'd be able to save up enough to buy a timing belt better suited to your extreme driving style? [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__raj Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just changed had the tensioner/timing belt changed today for $444 at 110k miles on our 05 LGT. The experienced mechanic stated both original parts were in decent condition actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Maybe of you waited 25k miles, you'd be able to save up enough to buy a timing belt better suited to your extreme driving style? ??? What do you mean? I'm a bit confused. I clearly stated my reasons for wanting to do preventative maintenance. And I clearly stated my reasons for not wanting to purchase the kit the thread was about. I also clearly stated the reasons for which I disagreed with many of you in this thread, while some simply used sarcasm in a desparate attempt to justify their reasoning (rao). I've still not seen a reasonable rebutle to my description of increased wear based on engine speed. Looking forward to more sarcasm though! Come on, rao, I know you can do it! :) lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 EXACTLY Consider someone who drives at 2000 rpm to get to 105k miles. The timing belt experienced x number of cycles. Consider someone who drives at 6000 rpm (at the same speed, i.e. a different gear) to get to 105k miles. The timing belt experienced 3x number of cycles. So you could think of the timing belt as experiencing 3 times the wear... Now for those that are in an argumentative mood, I'm NOT saying I drive at 6,000 rpm everywhere, but I am saying that I row through the gears A LOT and don't 'cruise' very often. NO. 3x the belt speed doesn't mean 3x the wear. The timing belt is subjected to only marginally higher loads at higher RPM. Belt speed doesn't determine wear alone. The fact of the matter is simple. On the grand scheme of things, belt speeds at 2000 RPM and at 6000 RPM are still well within the 97% operating efficiency of the belt. You can dance through that range all day long. The belt is geared, because it's a timing belt, so it doesn't experience slip. It's constrained, so it's not able to jump teeth. The belt has a tensioner, so there's no damage done from pulsing due to engine firing, the belt never "loses" tension. What ACTUALLY causes wear? Differences in belt tension across the belt, slipping, and jumping, right? The first, different tensions, isn't an issue. The timing belt is under constant tension from the tensioner, and when running constant tension from spinning the cams. This consistent tension means there is no localized acceleration of the belt. The entire belt is rotating at some feet per minute, and that is the same at every point. The second, slippage, clearly doesn't occur. The drive side of the belt is geared and isn't slipping. The non-drive side slides against smooth roller surfaces, a source of very little, if any, wear. Unless you decide to run pudding through your water pump, that provides very little resistance as well. Belt tension is reasonably high, so slip on those surfaces is non-existant. When it DOES exist (the result of a failed tensioner), it howls to no end. The final, is jumping. Around the entire belt, at all critical junctions, there are physical guides that help arrest jumping. It takes a SERIOUS event to jump timing. What else is there? The cords in the belt are steel, so heat plays a marginal role in wear. The failure method for a timing belt isn't compliant gear teeth, but snapping of the belt itself. You wont find anyone who has stripped a timing belt. The steel cording has a near infinite fatigue life, so your biggest concern is physical damage caused by slip on the backing due to excessive drag on bearings (either caused by age or contaminants). That's really it. Your driving style has nothing to do with belt life. Period. Ask Subaru. They'd LOVE to sell you a belt and all pullies and such at 80k. They'll make more money that way. But they don't tell you to change that stuff at 80k. They don't tell you to change the belt more frequently if you aggressively drive the car. They don't tell you to change the belt sooner if you live in a hotter climate. The very BEST they can do, is tell you to change the belt at 105k. They don't tell you that you can wait until 105k in hopes that the belt will fail. The STi, a clear performance car, has the same 105k interval that our Legacys do. Changing the belt at 80k is as much preventative maintenance, as putting a cast around your unbroken arm before going snowboarding. It's completely insane. SO, if you waited the 25k until you actually need to change the belt, you'd be able to save up the money to buy the timing belt that is better suited to your extreme driving style, the Gates Kevlar belt. If you feel like you need to change your timing belt now, you might as well do all idlers, the tensioner, and water pump. You should also replace all 4 cam sprockets, and the crank gear. If you are really worried about accelerated wear, then you should be replacing all parts that contact the belt. The facing teeth of the gears all get worn just as the teeth on the timing belt do, you know. Me? I'll wait until 105k. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Did you even read the post you quoted? I did not say anything about wear being dependent on belt speed. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Did you even read the post you quoted? I did not say anything about wear being dependent on belt speed. I did. You said a belt wears 3x faster at 6000RPM than at 2000RPM (which is wrong). Belt length X Belt RPM = Belt Speed You said that belts wear directly proportional to belt speed. That's incorrect. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 No... The timing belt experienced 3x number of cycles. I said wear is proportional to the number of cycles experienced. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Yes... The timing belt experienced 3x number of cycles. So you could think of the timing belt as experiencing 3 times the wear... [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 No... I said wear is proportional to the number of cycles experienced. You mentioned time. You said that a belt at 6000RPM experiences 3x the number of cycles as a belt at 2000RPM. That's not true if the belt at 2000RPM spins 3 times as long as the one going 6000RPM. Your statement is only true if time is a factor. And since we have cycles per unit time, we have belt speed. Seriously dude. If you think it's worth your time and money to replace your timing belt 25,000 miles early. By all means, go for it. No matter how you drive your family sedan, there is no reason to change it early other than owner paranoia. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 D- in reading comprehension for you. A+ in repetitive meaningless posts. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 D- in reading comprehension for you. A+ in repetitive meaningless posts. Good one [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero287 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 So....Gates or OEM lol. Where to Buy either one for a good price. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 So....Gates or OEM lol. Where to Buy either one for a good price. lol. IMO, oem. Unless you can find a killer deal on the gates. My dealer does timing belts at 60k intervals so I'm no longer looking... I didn't even realize it was part of that maintenance until I called and inquired. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 It's not, it's part of the dealers profit plan Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Texas is really tough on timing belts I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziankingz Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 where can you buy an oem one for cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slvrlegacygt Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have the Gates kevlar belt. If I had to do it over again I would go with the OEM STi belt and all OEM accessories including water pump. Being that you have the gates kit why would you go with oem accessories and sti belt if you could do it over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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