m sprank Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 I have Epics on several customers cars with OEM struts. Seem to respond fine. I have Epics on KYB GR2 struts on the wifes car and it is riding far better than OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Price me up a set of Epics shipped to 32826 please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 $240 delivered to CON US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Would the Konis have the same issue with "drop" on Swifts as the Bilsteins do? Not sure what the difference would be using the stock struts, but am curious whether it's a better route. Like the Bilsteins a lot, but you can't beat the Koni for performance - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 When you ask about "drop" are you referring to the saggy butt? That is caused by using the SpecB top hat. It is about 3/8" thicker than the standard LGT top hat. Lifts the front end up. Konis use the standard LGT top hat, so no saggy butt situations. I do have shims available with longer studs to alleviate the saggy butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Correction, the Spec-B top hat is 5/8" thicker than the standard LGT! (according to UncleMat) My car is butt saggy even with a 3/8" rear spacer. Which is odd, because the springs I have are designed for Bilsteins. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 IIRC the stock struts and Swifts don't drop the car as much as Bilsteins and Swifts...that's what I was trying to say poorly. Obviously big, big differences in ride and handling between the two combos, but was addressing the stock strut/koni combi setup v-a-a the Bilstein setup both with Swifts. I have 3/8" shims and longer bolts, so rear is not the issue. Just trying to visualize whether there would be any difference overall in "amount" of drop between the two. Hopefully that was more clear... - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Dale read your last post carefully. We both know that the springs are exactly the same no matter what. So if the first sentance of your post were correct, the Stock LGT struts (though valved softer than the Bilsteins) would have to be longer than the Bilsteins. The difference is in the top hat. Bilsteins sit higher up front. Not KYB's. Bilstein top hat rides 3/8"" taller (due to larger internal bearing). I have measured this repeatedly on multiple cars. 3/8" shim in rear is the norm. Also, Swifts will kill a set of KYB's fast. They are JDM and designed around JDM struts. So, if going from OEM KYB's to Bilstein with Swift expect a 1 3/4 to 2 finger gap front and rear when using a 3/8" shim. Approx a 1" drop up front and a 3/4" drop in the rear. Hope that helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Okay, know that the Spec Bizzle top hat is thicker, which does make the overall length of the Bilstein with SB top hat (very top to very bottom) longer, but had it lodged in my brain that the stock KYB struts with stock top hat, were physically longer or different between the spring perches than the Bilstein, but it sounds like they're not. So without the top hats, the two struts are exactly the same - same length, same height to the bottom perch, same distance to the top perch, etc., so nothing between the struts (without top hats) that would cause a difference in drop (given same spring) between them? I'm just trying to determine whether the Koni/stock conversion changes any length anywhere v-a-v the Bilsteins. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Now we are on the same page. For instance. I just removed a set of LGT OEM springs form an LGT with Bilsteins. Replaced them with Epic springs. Also added 3/8" shims to the rear to make up for the saggy butt. Owner came to me because he hated the saggy butt look when the Bilsteins were installed with the OEM springs. Ride was an issue also (springs had 131k on them). But ride height was same as a OEM SpecB. I have measured SpecB and LGT springs. They are the same. Once complete the car had the fender gap the owner wanted. But was really barely lower than stock. Maybe 1/2" lower up front and rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 So with Epics on OEM's I would need butt shims due to the springs being for sedan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 OEM wagon springs are the same rate as OEM sedan springs. Difference is OEM wagon springs are approx 1/8" longer in rear to accommodate extra weight. Have not heard complaints of saggy butt from wagon owners. But I have no personal experience (yet). But I have 1/4" shims if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Now we are on the same page. For instance. I just removed a set of LGT OEM springs form an LGT with Bilsteins. Replaced them with Epic springs. Also added 3/8" shims to the rear to make up for the saggy butt. Owner came to me because he hated the saggy butt look when the Bilsteins were installed with the OEM springs. Ride was an issue also (springs had 131k on them). But ride height was same as a OEM SpecB. I have measured SpecB and LGT springs. They are the same. Once complete the car had the fender gap the owner wanted. But was really barely lower than stock. Maybe 1/2" lower up front and rear. Think we're almost on the same page. So you're saying that the Koni/stock conversion is the exact same length (height) end-to-end as the stock KYB strut with no variation and is the exact same length (height) end-to-end, as the Bilstein strut...before top hats are added to any? And that the Koni/stock and Bilstein strut spring perches (top and bottom) are in exactly the same location between the two struts? Not worried about sag, nor spring rates/types, just where the springs "sit" height-wise, from strut to strut - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thats it Dale. Everything is the same except the top hats on the front. The front SpecB or GroupeN top hats (same thing) will raise the front end of a non-SpecB (car that did not come with Bilsteins) due to the increased thickness of the top phat. The thickness is due to the much beefier bearing in the top hat. Otherwise they are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 *scrubbing bad memory registry* to remove mis-filed strut information. Thanks. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 So many cars, so many mods, so little memory space. Trust me, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 And to further confuse things... one must add a washer to non-spec B struts in order to use the Group N/Spec B tops... -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 The dreaded conical washer. Should it be there or not... LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Actually on the Konis if you put the Group N tops on and don't add an additional washer under the conical, you will get awful clanking/banging! The threads do not go far enough down the piston shaft to fully tighten the Group Ns on Konis/stock replacement struts. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Geez! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Yup. Konis are not made for the SpecB/GroupeN top hat. Only JDM struts are. So, Bilsteins and Tokicos are made for the top hat. If trying to use the top hat with struts like KYB or Koni you need to get creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Yup. Konis are not made for the SpecB/GroupeN top hat. Only JDM struts are. So, Bilsteins and Tokicos are made for the top hat. If trying to use the top hat with struts like KYB or Koni you need to get creative. Yup just add an additional washer from Lowe's under the conical washer. I ran that setup for about 3 years w/o issue with about 15-20 track days on em. -mike http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Very happy with the konis and stock springs! And I will never forget you getting this straightened out for me Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Glad I could help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zavar Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I'm still running in circles trying to decide how to go.... With Koni struts, what are the trade-offs of running stock springs vs say Epic Engineering springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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