EstateSleeper Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I smell raw fuel after starting my car in temps below about 20F. It's def coming from the engine bay, I can smell it through the hood scoop, but I can't pinpoint it when I open the hood. It goes away after the engine warms up, so I'm thinking it's some kind of o-ring or seal that's shrinking in the cold and leaking a little bit until it warms up. It's not any of the fuel lines above the fuse box up in the driver side engine bay near the strut tower, I checked those. I've got 2 other friends with WRX's who have the same problem so it doesn't seem to be limited to the 2.5 engine. Just wondering if anybody else had this problem and knew what it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDRVSLO Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Same issue, brought it to the dealer with no solution. I am guessing that it has something to do with the catalytic converters being unable to burn off fumes at the cold temps. Could be a seal...I just am not familiar enough with these vehicles yet to pinpoint the problem. It has been discussed across the boards. The problem is the discussion isnt always Legacy GT specific and is more generalized. People point to fuel lines needing tightened also. Good luck....Im going to ignore it since I dont see freezing temps often and once it is warmed up it goes away. [ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jranmann Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 My suspicion Sleeper (since it's a raw fuel smell) is that your engine's fuel enrichment circuit (active only when starting in cold climate weather) is leaking... Have it investigated thoroughly at the dealer, under pressure at sub-freezing temperature... as a sudden fire in the engine compartment is a bitch to fight (say in your front yard in winter?) if the garden hose happens to also be frozen solid...? (e.g. get an extinguisher and carry it in the car) A good idea you have too, on the o-ring business, as one or more of the high-pressure fuel hose fittings leading to supply the cold start valve on the FI system and it may indeed be leaking... (Modern fuel additives also play havoc with older hose components and their fittings) Remember the space shuttle Challenger disaster and the Morton Thiokol boosters used to get the Shuttle and it's payload off the lauch pad?...Aside from loss of the crew and the vehicle... Morton Thiokol (who designed the boosters and the o-rings that were the root cause of that disaster)...got it's 'just deserts' a few years later, when their solid rocket booster fuel plant in the Nevada desert was completely destroyed by one carelessly tossed cigarette and a bit of leaking fuel vapor. This local news video below of the fire was taken from more than nine miles away from the burning factory....just as the fire burned a bit too near the fuel dump..quite an explosion was the result! http://www.dslreports.com/speak/slideshow/11811517?c=708858&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3JlbWFyaywxMTgwNjY0OQ%3D%3D&dsz=o Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loopless Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 You know what's funny I was listening to Car Talk on KPBS and someone called in with this issue. "click and clack" claimed this was a well known problem with Subies to do with cold temps and seals leaking in the fuel injector supply system and that the dealers should have a kit to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jranmann Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 ...claimed this was a well known problem with Subies to do with cold temps and seals leaking in the fuel injector supply system and that the dealers should have a kit to fix it. Japanese one-time fuel hose clamps are famous for eventually piercing the rubber and being completely useless the second time around (a simple tightening might be nice?) and when replacing, are a real bitch to remove... without fully destroying the fuel line itsef... instead of (as in the old days) merely cutting off an inch of the old line and sticking it back onto it's corresponding nipple. A flat bladed screwdriver and a pair of snips used to go a long, long way toward completing the onboard toolkit...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmrider Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 This is/was a well-known issue with the bugeye WRX owners ( including mine ). Hose clamps on the fuel lines loosen over time due to heat cycling. Cold weather causes the hoses to harden and leak fuel until things warm up. PITA part was that you had to remove the IM to get at a few of the clamp screws. I pulled mine off, removed the TGV flaps, and replaced the OEM clamps clocked so that I could tighten them down the road w/o popping the mani off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloz2 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 I noticed this on my 2006 2.5i shortly after getting it. Happened right after changing the oil for the first time and smelled more like oil than gas. I wonder if it's related anyway? Current: 16 Crosstrek Premium w/ Eyesight & 05 Outback XT 5MT Past Subies: 14 FXT Premium, 14 WRX hatch, 06 Legacy 2.5i SE 5MT, 98 Outback wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Mine did it again last week, 1F for a temp. I did look the other day. Behind the A/C compressor is a 1/4 fuel line elbow connection. I could see the damp hose, I can touch it. But there's no way to get a tool on it to tighten it. I wonder if I can put another hose clamp next to the OEM POS. Yes, this is part of the love/hate thing.... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robitrice Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 has happened to me as well and it was more noticeable when i had the heat on. it went away after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Driveing in today I was thinking, may I could lockwire the hose on both sides of the oem clamps. It may be easier then trying to get a clamp in there. I'd use .041 wire. Gee, what do you know, I happen to have a roll that's been sitting on my desk here at work for years. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05 GT LTD Owner Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Me too! The last few mornings I’ve smelled fuel as the car warms up. The smell of raw fuel is inside the car, and it seems to be coming out of the dashboard vents, and strangely enough, only on cold starts. (after sitting a few hours) The smell eventually goes away after 10 – 15 minutes. As far as I can see, there are NO visible fuel leaks anywhere. I looked all over, injectors & hard lines, the rubber fuel lines in the engine compartment, the quick connections near the brake master cylinder. There is no fuel on floor near the clutch pedal, and I didn’t see any leaks back at the fuel filler pipe, but I honestly didn’t look too closely back there as the smell is certainly up front. . http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/1236/intakeo.jpg http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3207/liness.jpg http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8118/tankp.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofthouse_gt Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 This happened to me all winter last year and completely went away during the spring/summer/fall months. Now it's back again in any temp below 20 F. I am honestly not concerned with it being an issue. I have checked all fuel lines and haven't found anything that looked suspicious. While the smell is horrible it seems to go away when the car gets warmed up. Needless to say I would still be interested if anyone comes up with a solution. Max let us know how the wire works. One side note, I am assuming what is happening to us during the extreme cold is that the rubber hoses connecting to the fuel lines are constricting enough to allow fuel fumes to be released (I have yet to find actual signs of fuel leaking so I say fumes), when the car warms up or the outside ambient temp increases to a certain point the rubber hoses expand properly sealing the hose and fuel line causing the problem to go away. As some have mentioned above they are worried about their hoses having small holes or cuts from the clamps. My question is would trying to clamp these rubber hoses when the rubber is constricted cause possible damage to the hose when the temperature increases and the hoses expand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmrider Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Yous guys are trying to re-invent the wheel here! This is covered ad-nauseum on NASIOC. Also refer there for the "safety hazard" aspect, again tried by many but resolved for free by few ( and not via the NHTSA but by caring dealers for good customers ). 05 LGT LTD, see diagram "B-1" specifically items #2 and #3 ( fuel hose and clamps ). The clamps lose their "elasticity" over time and multiple heat cycles, and much like regular worm-style clamps they need to be retorqued or tightened on occasion. Next what happens to rubber when the temps get cold? Yes it constricts however it also becomes hard. The combo of hard rubber lines and loose clamps = leaky fuel when the car is first started until the engine temps "warm up" the hose. It then becomes more maleable and seals against the hard fuel line ( which also expands when hot and helps the whole scenario ). You smell the raw/leaking fuel thru the vents cuz outside air is being drawn in via the cowl ( heater usually does not use recirc mode ). Pull the manifold, tighten the stock clamps or replace them with worm models, and clock the clamp so the next time you don't have to remove the IM. And for the "next time" comment I never had to mess with mine again altho I only had the WRX for two more winters. GL and happy clamping.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Living Legacy Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 At least I'm not the only one... Yesterday I smelled it for the first time, temperature was about 9F. I was able to see some moisture (not shown in this picture) and after touching it confirmed it was most likely at least one source-see attached picture for location of leak only. I suppose the only answer is to pull everything off and replace the clamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangendsley Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Nothing new. mines does this every winter. it is fine. summer rolls around and the smell goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
450exc115 Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 All three subies I've owned have needed the clamps tightened later in life. Kind of wished they used the cheaper self tensioning clamps that suck to remove but keep a relatively constant tension on the tubing. I have to find the smelly one in my WRX... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Guys, I've got an '05 LGT that is doing this now. Put a related thread up about it yesterday. I've looked at the diagram. It looks like a PITA. Just how hard is it to get to the necessary clamps under the intake. The dealers here in town, both of them actually, have both quoted me $550 to replace "all fuel lines under manifold". I'm pretty handy, but if there are a million little tiny parts to keep track of for re-assembly, I'd like to know, because I'll probably pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdAstra Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The smell is definitely more noticeable at stage 2. I upgraded to a catted CNT downpipe and an catless up last December in my '06, and there is a short-lived but definite note of exhaust fume on cold stars (i.e. at 0 F and below). I didn't notice the smell in cold temps prior to changing the down/uppipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Sadly, it's not even really what northerners would call "cold" down here. The last couple of weeks we've dipped down into the 20's, with a couple of days in the teens last week. Otherwise, the mercury rarely dips under 40 around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxx4k Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 catless up pipe + catless DP i feel like I'm in a gas tank.. anyway to make it go away ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Driveing in today I was thinking, may I could lockwire the hose on both sides of the oem clamps. It may be easier then trying to get a clamp in there. I'd use .041 wire. Gee, what do you know, I happen to have a roll that's been sitting on my desk here at work for years. This has worked for me. When ever it warms up outside I'll try and get a picture. -6F today no smell. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxx4k Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 where is this hose located??? http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93512&d=1292439527 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 That picture is above #2 cylinder. That's the front of the TGV. That fuel line behind there is where I did the lock to stop the leak. I took pictures today but won't have a chance to post them for a while. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted December 14, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 14, 2012 That picture is above #2 cylinder. That's the front of the TGV. That fuel line behind there is where I did the lock to stop the leak. I took pictures today but won't have a chance to post them for a while. Or never "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 lol That one in particular was a real PITA for me. Had a hard time getting it to go on and not try to kink when everything was bolted back down. As it stands now, mine does actually have a small kink in it, rather than a smooth bend but the car runs fine. Thankfully. With the cold temps finally here this week I started smelling fuel again so I guess it's time to re-check/tighten everything now that the cold weather is here. What a PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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