Legacy vs. Mediocrity

[MikeNH]

^Are you one of the ones whose all butthurt about Subaru ditching the frameless windows? Why? The framed windows will seal more reliably with less maintenance for sure. As for the "shiny silver dash that will break before it flexes"? How is this vastly different than the matte finish silver on the 05-09? Subaru is in this business to make money, not to cater to people who can't let go of the past, no matter how imagined it may be. The 05-09 was certainly not a bad car, but it was not a real midsize and that was costing Subaru customers. Now they have a car that is essentially every bit as quick as the previous GT that also has the NA models that will appeal to the traditional midsize buyers.

[Sydtron]

Well they don't like the style of it so it's probably slower.....

 

Also, the previous generation Legacy looked awfully similar to a Camry. Plus, Subaru was affiliated with GM back then. I think I'll take a Toyota over a GM of that era

[TheOneDoubleN]

Spoken as someone with no experience or research to back up anything you write. I knew it was a bad idea to get back into this topic, but I just couldn't look away. It's done now.

 

BTW, all it takes to get a BL/BP to change from understeer to neutral or oversteer is a beefier rear sway bar, like the engineers designed for it back in Japan. The first mod I did to my car was an AVO RSB, and that's all it took. I suspect that's also true of the current gen, but then you'd have to pick up a wrench. You might hurt yourself...

 

+1: 2010 Rear STI Sway Bar and running 40f 38r psi made things nice a neutral for me.

 

Don't tell him to pick up sharp heavy things......

[StoplightAssassin]

Well they don't like the style of it so it's probably slower.....

 

Also, the previous generation Legacy looked awfully similar to a Camry. Plus, Subaru was affiliated with GM back then. I think I'll take a Toyota over a GM of that era

 

The rear and only the rear of a BL looked like a Camry. From every other angle it resembled a Camry no more than any other car does.

[TheOneDoubleN]

Now, you might think you fixed the understeer since the back can step out easier but the front of the car is still pushing it to the outside.

 

Nah, I fixed it, as did many others.

 

Quit making sweeping generalizations of people and making a total asshole of yourself. It's not like the 4th gen was set up to oversteer.

 

Almost every car in production is meant to tend toward understeer for safety. You can make almost any car handle how you want it to with the right mods. But you know that! You beat porches and bmw's at auto-x's! I'm sure your car defies the laws of physics (you know what that is, right?). Tell me how you RULE at physics and how you make inertia your bitch!

[Sydtron]

+1: 2010 Rear STI Sway Bar and running 40f 38r psi made things nice a neutral for me.

 

Don't tell him to pick up sharp heavy things......

 

So you were able to fix that whole terrible weight balance issue with the car? Don't tell him to pick up sharp heavy things.....

[Sydtron]

Almost every car in production is meant to tend toward understeer for safety. You can make almost any car handle how you want it to with the right mods. But you know that! You beat porches and bmw's at auto-x's! I'm sure your car defies the laws of physics (you know what that is, right?). Tell me how you RULE at physics and how you make inertia your bitch!

 

They don't tend toward understeer, they understeer because they're FWD and that is how the car is going to handle.

 

Sway bars change how the car behaves, not what it is. You're not reducing understeer, you're increasing oversteer. The rears want to give up before the front. It creates a fallacy of great handling because oversteer feels faster. Back in reality, the car is going to understeer because of the nature of where the weight is in the car. You can change what happens near the limit but the entire time the front of the car is dictating what happens. Larger sways and creating throttle oversteer can cause oversteer to occur, but the rear of the car isn't dictating where the car goes -- only losing traction before the front. 60% of the weight of the car is sitting out front, that's all that matters. Kicking the rear of the car out isn't helpful when it is going to want to fall back in line with the rest.

 

Sway bars aren't magic, no matter what it comes down to where the weight on the car is. How the car interacts with it can be changed but that weight will always, always, always dictate how the car handles.

[LosAngelesLGT]

The 05-09 was certainly not a bad car, but it was not a real midsize and that was costing Subaru customers. Now they have a car that the NA models that will appeal to the traditional midsize buyers.

 

^x2 Basically what its all about. An "entry level" midsize MUST MUST MUST be able to fit a couple teenagers in back with a 6' driver

 

AND you guys are idiots (for arguing)

 

AND Mazdaspeed6 still sucks.

[DukeTrout]

They don't tend toward understeer, they understeer because they're FWD and that is how the car is going to handle.

 

Sway bars change how the car behaves, not what it is. You're not reducing understeer, you're increasing oversteer. The rears want to give up before the front. It creates a fallacy of great handling because oversteer feels faster. Back in reality, the car is going to understeer because of the nature of where the weight is in the car. You can change what happens near the limit but the entire time the front of the car is dictating what happens. Larger sways and creating throttle oversteer can cause oversteer to occur, but the rear of the car isn't dictating where the car goes -- only losing traction before the front. 60% of the weight of the car is sitting out front, that's all that matters. Kicking the rear of the car out isn't helpful when it is going to want to fall back in line with the rest.

 

Sway bars aren't magic, no matter what it comes down to where the weight on the car is. How the car interacts with it can be changed but that weight will always, always, always dictate how the car handles.

 

Get your facts straight! The Legacy is All Wheel Drive, not Front Wheel Drive. It's not even a FWD-based AWD. (like the Mazdaspeed6, which still sucks, thanks for reminding us, LosAngelesLGT )

 

And the weight distribution of the BL is 52 front, 48 rear. Balanced under acceleration, less balanced under braking - which is why you get understeer, cause you're braking into turns, you pansy, and pushing to the outside. Instead of braking before the turn and accelerating into them, like you should, balancing out the car and making it neutral to slightly tail-happy.

[BAC5.2]

My Subaru isn't FWD...

[Sydtron]

Get your facts straight! The Legacy is All Wheel Drive, not Front Wheel Drive. It's not even a FWD-based AWD. (like the Mazdaspeed6, which still sucks, thanks for reminding us, LosAngelesLGT )

 

And the weight distribution of the BL is 52 front, 48 rear. Balanced under acceleration, less balanced under braking - which is why you get understeer, cause you're braking into turns, you pansy, and pushing to the outside. Instead of braking before the turn and accelerating into them, like you should, balancing out the car and making it neutral to slightly tail-happy.

 

Almost every car in production is meant to tend toward understeer for safety.

 

Almost every car in production is FWD, and the weight balance causes understeer. They're not set up that way, they just are that way. Anything that has more favorable weight balance certainly is set up to cause understeer to happen since it's easier to deal with for your average driver.

 

Also, the BL isn't 52/48 unless you add 200-300lbs out back. Engine is far, far too forward for sporty intentions.

[TheOneDoubleN]

Almost every car in production is FWD, and the weight balance causes understeer. They're not set up that way, they just are that way. Anything that has more favorable weight balance certainly is set up to cause understeer to happen since it's easier to deal with for your average driver.

 

Also, the BL isn't 52/48 unless you add 200-300lbs out back. Engine is far, far too forward for sporty intentions.

 

Dude, why are you here? Who the **** cares about the random bullshit you're spewing out at this point. You have thoroughly proven your point that you're a complete asshat that is crying out for any kind of attention and no longer have any credibility in this thread.

 

Are you here just to tell us that Subaru's suck? Do you go onto other car manufacturer forums and tell everyone that their car sucks? Did someone force you to buy a new legacy and now you're angry about it? Who in their right mind would buy a car they hate? According to your username, you have a '10 LGT. Tell us why you bought a car that sucks so much; I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

[BAC5.2]

Almost every car in production is FWD, and the weight balance causes understeer. They're not set up that way, they just are that way. Anything that has more favorable weight balance certainly is set up to cause understeer to happen since it's easier to deal with for your average driver.

 

Also, the BL isn't 52/48 unless you add 200-300lbs out back. Engine is far, far too forward for sporty intentions.

 

My Subaru isn't FWD.

 

Next time I align the car, I'll toss the scales under my wagon and see what the real weight balance is.

[TheOneDoubleN]

They don't tend toward understeer, they understeer because they're FWD and that is how the car is going to handle.

 

That's funny, the Car and Driver for October tested Lexus and BMW's flagship RWD sedans; they both were rated "mild understeer". Weights were 52/48. In fact, if you look at a test of any car other than a supersport, I can guarantee you any RWD car is still not going to say "oversteer" very often, if at all. Vipers, Corvettes, etc, mild oversteer probably.

 

The muscle cars of the 60's had all the weight in the front of the car from their massively heavy enormous engines, and they typically oversteered like crazy. Hmmm.....

 

But hey, didn't you say that weight is all that matters, not which wheels are the drive wheels? Man, you're starting to contradict yourself something stupid, I can't even keep up with your awesome knowledge!

[dmanaenk]

Oh wow, this thread got ugly quickly...

 

 

the trunk opens partially and even when opened fully (with force) i will bang my head against it trying to put something inside.

Seriously, what's up with that? Had a 2.5i loaner for a day and almost split my head in half taking stuff out of the trunk.

[MikeNH]

I've had my GT since March and I still do it now and then. I never remember to mention it to the dealer either. Not sure what they'd do since they all seem to do it. I know the GT I looked at before I bought mine took a bite out of me too.

[StoplightAssassin]

My Subaru isn't FWD.

 

Next time I align the car, I'll toss the scales under my wagon and see what the real weight balance is.

 

when I had my car corner balanced the car was 55.7 front and 44.3 rear...but thats with me in there too...I'm 285...I AM ALL THAT IS MAN!

[Sydtron]

That's funny, the Car and Driver for October tested Lexus and BMW's flagship RWD sedans; they both were rated "mild understeer". Weights were 52/48. In fact, if you look at a test of any car other than a supersport, I can guarantee you any RWD car is still not going to say "oversteer" very often, if at all. Vipers, Corvettes, etc, mild oversteer probably.

 

Cars are set up to let the front go before the back since it is intuitive to get out of. Lexus, BMWs, etc aren't necessarily "performance oriented" and they're not going to have people in them concerned with much other than the marque and the sticker price.

 

The muscle cars of the 60's had all the weight in the front of the car from their massively heavy enormous engines, and they typically oversteered like crazy. Hmmm.....

 

Ever hear of a concept called power oversteer? Hmm....Also, they understeered when the rear wasn't breaking loose.

 

But hey, didn't you say that weight is all that matters, not which wheels are the drive wheels? Man, you're starting to contradict yourself something stupid, I can't even keep up with your awesome knowledge!

I did, but there's not really any rear or mid engined front wheel drive cars. So, and try to keep up with me here: The majority of cars sold are front wheel drive. Virtually all front wheel drive cars are front engined. I know that's a difficult concept but try your earnest, qt. Don't burn yourself out or anything, I think I can still get a few more posts out of you yet.

[SubOperator]

wow... still arguing about this?

 

It's not like Subaru can go back, I made my arguments way back when;)

 

I'll I can say now as an owner of the last two generations of Legacies and having spend some serious time in a 2010 2.5i and LGT, is that the current generation does not interest me at all over what I currently drive. I'd be more detailed in my explanation but I'll say most of my fears were confirmed and no point rehasing old flame wars.

 

If I had to stay with Subaru, I'd get an STI which is pretty much a bl/bp Legacy anyways:lol:.

 

Well said. Same feelings here.

[BAC5.2]

BMW's aren't performance oriented?

[SubOperator]

http://www.subaru.com/content/static/fightmediocrity/images/overview/img_main_overview.jpg

 

Subaru's new Mediocrity mini-site (linked from the Legacy model page) intends to portray the contrast between the standard beige midsize (from imaginary make Mediocrity Motors) and the 2011 Legacy.

 

(Though I don't know what kind of FWD, NA 4-cylinder midsize gets 18/24 mpg.)

 

 

Seeing a lot of previous-gen Malibu in the Mediocrity.

 

 

 

Missing from Subaru Mediocre's list of accessories is plastic dildo for SOA to go and phuck themselves... That FHI division is acting more and more like spoiled stupid teenager.

 

and LALGT said it all...

[Sydtron]

BMW's aren't performance oriented?

 

Not lease spec 3 series, no. They're geared for understeer since they have otherwise a really nice chassis setup.

[LosAngelesLGT]

I can't wait till my new Dodge Caliber arrives!

 

[/sarcasm]

[MJ in PA]

So, I actually took a look at some of the stuff in the parody website...and it's just so ironic, because it seems to ridicule Subaru's very own philosophy with the 2010 Legacy! Everything about the new Legacy was about mainstreaming and de-contenting the car!

 

I mean, it's kind of a funny idea, but what makes it even funnier is that the current gen Legacy is the definition of a bland, mediocre car!

[BAC5.2]

Not lease spec 3 series, no. They're geared for understeer since they have otherwise a really nice chassis setup.

 

What is a "lease spec"? You can lease any car you want. One of my friends is currently leasing a 135i.

 

You cant make grossly inaccurate claims, then qualify them later.

 

You have gone from "subaru sucks" to "the stock alignment of a 'lease spec' 3 series makes it understeer and that makes it bad."

 

Come back when you actually know a thing or two about vehicle dynamics. Until then, all you've done is prove you don't know what you are talking about. You think the Mazdaspeed6 is the holy answer to the sports sedan, and that BMW's aren't "performance oriented".