2011 STI pillow ball LCA bushing fits the Legacy?

[BAC5.2]

What you say about urethane bushings is true, but that isn't how the rear LCA is setup. It isn't a sliding joint.

[Power6]

What you say about urethane bushings is true, but that isn't how the rear LCA is setup. It isn't a sliding joint.

 

We are still talking about the rear of the front LCA right? I know that gets confusing. Which urethane rear LCA bushing is not a sliding joint?

 

The Whiteline looks to me as if it is a cliding joint it needs grease. If it didn't have any sliding friction it would be grease free. How else would it articulate? I am looking at the pdfs here. Though visualizing how that joint works is tough.

[BAC5.2]

The rear bushing of the front LCA.

 

It's not a sliding joint. The bushing deflects, but doesn't pivot or slide. It needs grease, only because you need to spin the cam to adjust caster. Otherwise, it's completely fixed.

[cracka]

08 STI LCAs "fit" but will widen the front track. You'll need new longer axles, longer (STRI) sway bar, and the geometry will be wacky anyway. Potentially new steering rack, although tie rod ends may have enough slack. One guy tried recently and realized all these problems. There is a thread about this.

 

pre-08 won't remotely fit. Completely different chassis.

 

What a load of shit. I've had 2009 STI control arms in my liberty for years now.

 

It takes nothing, just bolt them in, and put in new rack ends about 30mm longer, and use the whiteline HD swaybar links with 10mm spacers inside the LCA and outside the swaybar end or it just breaks swaybar links due to the angle of the link.

 

Rack ends I used were a 9/16th rod size and rolled thread item from a Daewoo Nubira from memory from the local power steering specialist. No other custom shit required.

 

No need for longer shafts, the CV's sit barely further out and wear in the CENTRE of the cup as opposed to 2/3rd of the way in like stock.

 

For what its worth my car is fairly modified, 2006 3.0R B spec, 255 R comps, r180 plated, torsen front, cusco tarmac gear centre, ohlins DFV's, extended rear track, plenty of custom shit like subframe/strut tops/etc. Needed the wider front track to get it a little more stable under brakes as I have about 3.5mm toe out on all corners and it did exactly the trick.

 

Long story short, you're all talking shit and have not done the swap, and if you have you would know how simple it is to just undo two rack ends, and replace two sway bar links to do it.

[jfg22557]

^

[Impatient]

Anyone have back-to-back experience of the rubber STI LCA bushing vs the Group N? I had torn stock bushings, a year ago went with STI's (after failed attempt to do the STI pillow-ball bushings), but am curious if these will hold up and what the solution will be next time. Want the goodness the poly caster adjust bushings provide, but not the badness. Anyway, again, the question is simply Group N vs rubber STI.

[Power6]

Anyone have back-to-back experience of the rubber STI LCA bushing vs the Group N?...Anyway, again, the question is simply Group N vs rubber STI.

 

I have the used both. STI rubber LCA bushing is same as all Impreza 08-11 other than the new pillow ball of course. I replaced the stock LCAs in my 09 WRX with Spec B LCAs with Group-N bushings in both locations. I recently swapped back to the stock arms again.

 

My impression is the Group-N bushings trade some NVH for improved precision. Steering feel is better and less tracking changes on bumpy corners. Pavement cracks and other high frequency imperfections are felt more but still has that slightly eased edge of rubber. Not bad considering poking at the Group-N bushings they seem about as hard as granite. Swapping back to the stock arms, it does feel more comfortable again so there is a difference, but it is not a big one. I don't have any experience with urethane bushings in this location.

[ClimberDHexMods]

It appears that when using the LCA offset caster bushings, the steering rack would also need to be moved forward proportionally to maintain factory suspension geometry. Not something typically done. Anyone care to comment? Would love to see a bump steer test with offset vs regular LCA bushings.

[Power6]

STI/11+ WRX arms move the wheel further forward (in addition to the wider track, the arms have increased caster built in) but Subaru doesn't see the need to change the rack position vs the normal Impreza and Legacy.

 

I am trying to think of a downside to a rack mounted "too far back", my understanding is bump steer with a strut is due to the relationship of the tie rod vs. lower arm length and the rack position horizontally above the arm pivot axis.

 

Your idea of a "comparison" would be tough, the reduced compliance of the urethane bushing should minimize unwanted toe changes, which also could cause a similar effect to bump steer. I have seen this going from stock to Group-N bushings in the LCA the effect is much reduced just from the change in compliance.

 

I do think the bigger concern is the offset LCA bushing binds the front bushing by making it pivot slghtly off axis. Subaru adds caster in the arm, not the bushing so they don't have that issue. I don't think in practice this is much of a problem though.

[fahr_side]

Finally got round to installing the Powerflex LCA bushings. Luckily my buddy has the correct mandrels to press them in, because half-assing it with sockets or bits of old pipe will not cut it.

I haven't had the car aligned yet but right off the bat I can tell you it's a lot of extra harshness in the ride. People who already have coilovers and/or stiff springs probably won't notice much difference. Those with stock suspensions or mild road springs may be unhappy with the change in ride quality.

These were fitted along with the Whiteline rear subframe insert kit and front LCA front bushing kits. I don't believe they are responsible for much of the increased feedback. As is usual with stiffer springs or pillow-ball mounts, sharp-edged bumps taken at low speeds are much more noticeable in the cabin but fade away as speeds climb.

On the flip side there is much more feedback from the front wheels and no more of that 'we'll just point in any direction we damn well like and there isn't anything you can do about it' from the front tires. I do expect that once my alignment is done it will make the front end much more precise. I'm not entirely sure I can live with the increase in harshness however, and I may end up 'downgrading' to the GrpN bushings. We will see how it is in a few weeks time.

[jfg22557]

Finally got round to installing the Powerflex LCA bushings. Luckily my buddy has the correct mandrels to press them in, because half-assing it with sockets or bits of old pipe will not cut it.

I haven't had the car aligned yet but right off the bat I can tell you it's a lot of extra harshness in the ride. People who already have coilovers and/or stiff springs probably won't notice much difference. Those with stock suspensions or mild road springs may be unhappy with the change in ride quality.

These were fitted along with the Whiteline rear subframe insert kit and front LCA front bushing kits. I don't believe they are responsible for much of the increased feedback. As is usual with stiffer springs or pillow-ball mounts, sharp-edged bumps taken at low speeds are much more noticeable in the cabin but fade away as speeds climb.

On the flip side there is much more feedback from the front wheels and no more of that 'we'll just point in any direction we damn well like and there isn't anything you can do about it' from the front tires. I do expect that once my alignment is done it will make the front end much more precise. I'm not entirely sure I can live with the increase in harshness however, and I may end up 'downgrading' to the GrpN bushings. We will see how it is in a few weeks time.

anxiously awaiting your full review as Ill most likely pull the trigger or not on these power flex's based on it.

Keep us posted fahr

[fahr_side]

I haven't had the car aligned yet but right off the bat I can tell you it's a lot of extra harshness in the ride. People who already have coilovers and/or stiff springs probably won't notice much difference. Those with stock suspensions or mild road springs may be unhappy with the change in ride quality.

Well, having aligned the car I think something must have been a little loose at install. There is a lot less noise and harshness after alignment so whatever it was is tight now, and my impression today is quite different from yesterday.

 

I'd still say an owner with a coilover suspension and typical (for coilover) streetable springs will likely not notice any extra harshness from these mounts. Someone with an otherwise stock suspension will definitely notice the other effects but I think would only be bothered by really sharp-edged bumps at lower speeds. I don't notice much in the way of negative effects until I cross some rumble strips at 50kph or so, and that's now a real wake-up. Except for this you just notice what I'll subjectively call the positive effects.

 

Like any other bushing or spring upgrade you will feel more of the road through the cabin and steering wheel. If you want isolation, stay stock. The extra caster so far does not cure any handling problems or produce any magic effects. I don't think these cars lack caster as stock so I didn't expect any magic. What is welcome is a heavier feel to the steering around center which feels more precise and reassuring... less floaty and detached. It might be placebo and it might be all in my head, but I like it. Probably more apparent is the extra precision in steering. Now, bear in mind I installed the Whiteline steering rack bushing kit at the same time as the LCA bushings, so it's hard to know which part does what.

On the up-side, steering precision and turn-in feel is crisper and there's more feedback from the tires as to what they are passing over, and more feel for how hard they're working. Subjectively there seems to be less disturbance when hitting bumps mid-corner. What would cause a bit of wobble or skittish feel, or even a skip sideways before now disturbs the car less. OTOH...

 

On the down-side that extra feedback may tend to jerk the wheel more in your hands when passing over sharp bumps or holes, and I guess that the reduction in deflection in the bushings just transmits more of that energy to you to deal with. I would guess some owners would not like this.

 

Overall it's really not bad and I'll probably keep them on the car for a while. In hindsight I'd probably have gotten the GrpN bushings because like Power6 I believe rubber is better at absorbing vibration, but then you wouldn't get the heavier steering weight.

 

Hope this helps!

[ClimberDHexMods]

I'd still say an owner with a coilover suspension and typical (for coilover) streetable springs will likely not notice any extra harshness from these mounts.

 

Where to begin...

[fahr_side]

Where to begin...

 

Would you care to elaborate or are you content to fart in the general direction of this comment?

[ClimberDHexMods]

Would you care to elaborate or are you content to fart in the general direction of this comment?

 

I am elaborating only at your request. The statement I quoted is wrong in practice, and flawed in logical reasoning. The third way it was wrong is that you interrupted your experiential review to interject your hypothesis (which was wrong) thereby giving it false credibility (by placing it in the middle of a before/after review) as well as diluting the credibility of your review. Fourth way it was wrong is that it was stated in the form of suggestion to would be buyers, which would lead them to believe something incorrect (and thus potentially wasting their $$$ if they were to then want to setup the suspension the way they were intending.

 

I normally wouldn't care, but then I'd read about some member with coilovers buying these bushing, hating them, and trying to sell them at a loss. I've been that person, twice now, just with LCA bushings.

[fahr_side]

I am elaborating only at your request. The statement I quoted is wrong in practice, and flawed in logical reasoning. The third way it was wrong is that you interrupted your experiential review to interject your hypothesis (which was wrong) thereby giving it false credibility (by placing it in the middle of a before/after review) as well as diluting the credibility of your review. Fourth way it was wrong is that it was stated in the form of suggestion to would be buyers, which would lead them to believe something incorrect (and thus potentially wasting their $$$ if they were to then want to setup the suspension the way they were intending.

 

I normally wouldn't care, but then I'd read about some member with coilovers buying these bushing, hating them, and trying to sell them at a loss. I've been that person, twice now, just with LCA bushings.

Wow, so much wrong in such a short sentence, and I wasn't even trying.

 

Could you point to the thread you're referring to? The last thing I want to do is to push people into purchases they later regret. While I don't yet regret this purchase, if I'd known then what I know now I'd probably have opted for the GrpN parts, and I noted this in my mini-review.

 

My own experience with coilovers, springs in the 800# range, pillowball mount camber plates etc. just suggests to me that on top of that much feedback from sharp-edged bumps and holes, there probably wouldn't be too much extra harshness noticeable. Of course I haven't tried such a combination, and it's just a guess at how it would be. I don't think I misrepresented this guess as fact, and it certainly was not my intention to do so.

[ClimberDHexMods]

I liked your review. All I'm saying is this one part is the kind of thing that can ruin a car's enjoy-ability. I would know, I've done it.

 

I'd still say an owner with a coilover suspension and typical (for coilover) streetable springs will likely not notice any extra harshness from these mounts.

 

Not a big deal. Your review was great, a rare thing. Just this sentence didn't fit it.

 

I see it like this: Whatever spring/strut or coilover one wants to run, take that NVH and then take the info in your review and consider whether you will be content with that incremental change on top of what the existing suspension already feels like.

 

All that said:

 

I can't wait to switch from my AVO offset bushings in Spec B LCAs, to Group N in Steel LCAs. With my KW v2s, should finally feel right.

[fahr_side]

This stuff is all so subjective it makes it very hard to be helpful. What will ruin a car for one person will be fine for another.

I didn't know (or did but forgot) you have the KW units on your car. I have to admit most of the cars I work on / play with that have coilovers have much cheaper units installed.

 

At the moment I'm a little torn. I can get my hands on some aluminum arms for a reasonable price, the Whiteline front bushings and GrpN rear bushings are cheap. I have to admit I'm tempted.

[naimouasta]

the powerflex LCA bushing, looks like you can adjust the caster just like the whitelines. does anyone know how? does it somehow lock?...or do you just tighten it down the LCA bolt like the whitelines after you are done. i have the whitelines, and i'm just afraid it will loosen or change over time.

[fahr_side]

the powerflex LCA bushing, looks like you can adjust the caster just like the whitelines. does anyone know how? does it somehow lock?...or do you just tighten it down the LCA bolt like the whitelines after you are done. i have the whitelines, and i'm just afraid it will loosen or change over time.

 

No, they don't lock. You tighten the bolt down properly and they stay set. Note that caster adjustment is only -/+0.33*.

 

I went out for a blat around my usual... test track today. I'm really happy with this setup. I have much more confidence in the car now and it's much more fun to drive. Steering is sharper, more accurate, more stable. Even initial brake bite is better.

What's rather confusing to me is that at initial install they were very harsh, crashing over square-edged bumps. The next day the steering-rack bushings went on and then I went to get an alignment. Now the ride is much, much better. Yes, these bushings are very firm and yes, there is more feedback over all surfaces. I would not call these bushings 'motorsports only' or 'not for DD' but you will notice them.

I now feel the rear LCA bushing is the weak link in the whole front suspension and steering system. It's one of those upgrades you do and then ask yourself how the hell you drove the car with the OE crap on there. I fully understand now why Subaru made so much fuss about upgrading this one part.

[jfg22557]

No, they don't lock. You tighten the bolt down properly and they stay set. Note that caster adjustment is only -/+0.33*.

 

I went out for a blat around my usual... test track today. I'm really happy with this setup. I have much more confidence in the car now and it's much more fun to drive. Steering is sharper, more accurate, more stable. Even initial brake bite is better.

What's rather confusing to me is that at initial install they were very harsh, crashing over square-edged bumps. The next day the steering-rack bushings went on and then I went to get an alignment. Now the ride is much, much better. Yes, these bushings are very firm and yes, there is more feedback over all surfaces. I would not call these bushings 'motorsports only' or 'not for DD' but you will notice them.

I now feel the rear LCA bushing is the weak link in the whole front suspension and steering system. It's one of those upgrades you do and then ask yourself how the hell you drove the car with the OE crap on there. I fully understand now why Subaru made so much fuss about upgrading this one part.

First off, just wanted to say thanks Fahr for your in depth honest review. I am one of those guys that could care less about comfort, so on that front if these Powerflex's are somewhere in between the NVH of my current AVO offset polys and the known-to-be-harsh Perrin P.S.R.S, then Im content. I do like the mildly better turn in the .5*+ caster on the AVO's has provided, but the quality of the bushing itself is just not too hot. Ill be taking a look at them in a couple hours, and I believe I can already picture what they'll look like, shot.

 

So Im just slightly confused about 1 thing with these Powerflex's, how exactly is the caster adjustment accomplished? On the AVO's the "bolt hole" (if you will) is offset, with the caster adjustment being a fixed value. Excuse the ignorance but just havnt had much experience changing these myself. Appreciate the clarification.

[fahr_side]

The ball part of the bushing has an offset hole through it. You have your alignment shop rotate the ball relative to the body until you have the most extra caster you can have equally L/R and then lock them down. Final check on wheelbase L/R to sure it's equal and you're done.

[fahr_side]

Well, that was a mistake. Not even a month in, no driving in heavy rain or standing water, but I have all sorts of squeaking going on now. I can't live with that and re-greasing these things every month makes no sense.

I ordered some GrpN bushings and scored a pair of JDM WRX control arms to ease the disappointment with this whole thing.

[BAC5.2]

Which ones did you end up not liking? Whiteline?

[fahr_side]

I don't know which one is squeaking and can't be bothered to investigate that far. The Powerflex one seems to transmit the most road noise and harshness and as time passes it gets more annoying. I've come around to the idea that rubber just works better in these applications for a daily-driver.