nemo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 how do the whiteline bushings compare to the AVO ones? If you don't vote Trump, out, you're a bigot who hates america. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzymt Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 FWIW - I bought a pair of Super Pro LCA Offset Bushings from a forum member here a few years ago and never put them on my 05 XT. Ended up putting them in my 08 STi instead - fit perfect & definitely added to better turn-in & reduction of understeer. Amazingly, they actually made my STi slightly favor oversteer - which was perfect for autocross & very predictable (most of the time). I don't see where to get the SuperPro bushings, so I bought a set of the Whiteline offset LCA bushings and they will be the first of a handful of suspension mods on my new-to-me 05 LGT. The stock bushings are really a terribly designed piece of hardware - even on my 08 STi I noticed them getting destroyed/ripping after only a few months. For some stupid reason the bushing is not designed to be at a neutral position when at rest, so it is constantly being strained to a high angle & I think it is probably ripped at least partially on everyone's car. Anyway - the added caster angle is great - anyone considering this mod I highly recommend. Only problem is you need a press to remove the old bushings & press in the new ones, but if you have access to a press it's pretty easy. [CENTER][URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18504"]Subaru Plug & Play Aux-in Mod[/URL][/CENTER] [CENTER][URL="http://www.jazzyengineering.com"]www.jazzyengineering.com[/URL][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragon Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 That is them. I wouldn't even consider them. Why do you need something that aggressive on a street car? Just because this is how I drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 That is them. I wouldn't even consider them. Why do you need something that aggressive on a street car? Because RACE CAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naimouasta Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Just to confirm Bac, KCA334M: http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/jfg22557/utf-8Ba2NhMzM0LmpwZw.jpg Don't know why I didn't go with these in the first place actually those are the old ones. the new ones don't have that black rubber/poly insert. all metal like the perrin ones. i think they updated it because they were falling apart. http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/products/KCA334M.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Oh wow, I hadn't seen those. They look far too aggressive for a street car... [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I found one that looks good and just the way we want it http://www.mann-engineering.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/pf_adj_alk_800_800.jpg http://www.mann-engineering.com/products/powerflex-anti-liftcaster-adjustment-08-impreza-09-forester-05-legacy http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product_images/PFF69-502G-F.pdf if you look at the fitting instructions, you'll see it is a pillow ball LCA that looks better than the STi one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://www.mann-engineering.com/products/powerflex-anti-liftcaster-adjustment-08-impreza-09-forester-05-legacy and it appears that he found it but we were blind thanks Gmachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfg22557 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Looks like a very viable option. Any feedback on these? Looks like the heim is ploy surrounded as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I found one that looks good and just the way we want it http://www.mann-engineering.com/products/powerflex-anti-liftcaster-adjustment-08-impreza-09-forester-05-legacy http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product_images/PFF69-502G-F.pdf if you look at the fitting instructions, you'll see it is a pillow ball LCA that looks better than the STi one. Dammit. I ordered these, they just shipped, and now I read this. What is the part number for the GrpN item? Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfWagon24 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 New to the Legacy world.... Someone mentioned the wider track of the 11' STI LCAs. Can the whole LCA be swapped in, and has anyone done this? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfg22557 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ^ impossible. discussed previously in this very thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfWagon24 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Impossible because the lca is wider? or because the pillow ball will not fit into the legacy control arms (or any other control arms for that matter)? I mean no disrespect, just trying to qualify your statement. I would actually like to increase the track width and maybe gain some negative camber along with it. As long as the wheel is still relatively centered in the wheel well, I don't care too much. I guess the main worry would be that the axel is not long enough and could "pop out". I did this kind of swap on my bugeye wagon (STI arm with wider track and more camber/caster) and multiple people said that could not be done. I just want to know if the mounting points are still the same I guess. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfWagon24 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 sorry, I measured them and forgot to post. the arm is longer, and if you get the whole arm, there will be difference in track. alignment will be different. Seems that it should bolt in from this statement. Then you just have to play with the alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOperator Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Dammit. I ordered these, they just shipped, and now I read this. What is the part number for the GrpN item? So I read through few pages of the link you provided ^^, and STI people say STI alum LCAs fit BL/BP. Is that true ? Can anyone confirm which STI years have LCA compatible with our cars (05-09) ? That would be nice. SpecBs are expensive new and rarely come up for sale used. 2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K 2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 08 STI LCAs "fit" but will widen the front track. You'll need new longer axles, longer (STRI) sway bar, and the geometry will be wacky anyway. Potentially new steering rack, although tie rod ends may have enough slack. One guy tried recently and realized all these problems. There is a thread about this. pre-08 won't remotely fit. Completely different chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfWagon24 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Does anyone have a stock LCA, 08-10 STI LCA, or a 2011 STI LCA to measure the distance between the mounting points and the ball joint? I guess the distance to the swaybar link would also be helpful. Here is a link to the thread previously mentioned: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/used-sti-control-arms-173570p4.html?highlight=STI+control Parts needed STI LCAs with their bolts 2011+ WRX or possibly last gen Forrester axles are needed (no pin to hold these as they flex out like the early WRX). Tie rods from a STI probably are needed (although they never aligned the car in the above thread to correct camber first....so who knows) STI sway bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfg22557 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Impossible because the lca is wider? or because the pillow ball will not fit into the legacy control arms (or any other control arms for that matter)? I mean no disrespect, just trying to qualify your statement. I would actually like to increase the track width and maybe gain some negative camber along with it. As long as the wheel is still relatively centered in the wheel well, I don't care too much. I guess the main worry would be that the axel is not long enough and could "pop out". I did this kind of swap on my bugeye wagon (STI arm with wider track and more camber/caster) and multiple people said that could not be done. I just want to know if the mounting points are still the same I guess. Thanks No disrespect taken, I was too blunt. The correct word would be "impractical", but no not impossible. I dont think any of us wouldn't want a wider track, but it seems like the difficulty/expense of making it work is the main inhibiting factor. you already found it, but this post on page 4 is what lead me to my response. sorry, I measured them and forgot to post. the arm is longer, and if you get the whole arm, there will be difference in track. alignment will be different. that thread you (surf) posted, and unclemat referred to is an interesting read regarding just what it would take to successfully complete this swap and some of the issues that can be expected. definitely looking forward to eventually seeing this done, but like I said, I feel like the cost-benefit tradeoff wont necessarily be so favorable in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power6 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 As the cars with the right parts age and hit the junkyards, I think we'll see the wide track conversions done. At this point it is not clear which axles will work, it seems Subaru changed the axle type for the 2011 WRX, to some 22mm axle where they always used a 26. The STI 28mm axles might be a swap though. The way Subaru publishes the axle lengths in the FSMs is completely useless. It might be possible just arms and axles can do it. Sway bar end links can be spaced if you have Kartboy end links or similar. The static camber might not be so negative that you need the '11+ WRX uprights. SurfWagon24 it must have been a long time ago you did STI arms on your bugeye. It is well known they swap. All the STI/WRX sedans were widetrack in those days, but the track was not as great a difference, so the parts worked. I think the axles were only about 5mm off sedan to wagon. In this case it is something like a 15mm difference so more parts need to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfWagon24 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yup Power6, the bugeye was done before it became "commonplace". It did make a great difference in turn in and straightline stability. I agree jfg, at this point it seems cost prohibitive. And this will not be an autoX/track car....so the money is better spent elsewhere...or not spent at all. If it were just an arm swap and then adjust alignment or tie rods it would be worth it. Well, maybe I can come back to this in a couple years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 What is the part number for the GrpN item? Forget I asked. Now these are available: http://shop.edoperformance.com/zerosports-front-lower-control-arm-bushings-for-subaru-p-21532.html Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Since it says Zerosports, it's going to cost more than it should. The Group N bushing costs a bit less, I think. I'm torn about whether to use the Whiteline bushings I have, or go with a Group N. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Still cheaper than the Powerflex bushings I already bought... Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC5.2 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Very true. The ones posted above? Those look pretty aggressive for a street car, too. I'd go ZeroSports or GroupN. I think I'll go with the Whiteline ones I already have. NVH can't increase that much. Their KCA399 kit actually decreased NVH in the back of my car. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Power6 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Those Zerosports bushings look nice! Of course we have no idea how firm the rubber is. The Group-N bushings are like rocks. I think the Zerosports are actually cheaper, $102 for both sides in that link, think I paid about $130 for both rear Group-N from Rallispec. For a given stiffness, rubber will always be better at absorbing high frequency NVH while giving the same resistance to misalignment of urethane. Rubber is designed for flexible bonded bushings, urethane has to be a sliding joint, it is basically an unsealed bearing made out of urethane with some grease to reduce friction. That's ok for most rotating bushings but IMO not appropriate for our horizontal LCA rear bushing. Rubber also needs no maintenance since it is not a sliding joint that needs cleaning and grease. Those are my personal reasons but I know the urethane kits work well once Whiteline worked through a couple versions. Plus they have the option of adding caster. Too bad Zerosports didn't make their bushing offset for caster gain, I would have been all over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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