Whats to come for 2011? spec? or STI?

[IwannaSportSedan]

Have to agree with Siper there.

 

They are taking the Legacy against mainstream targets. Mainstream targets that don't have performance variants, where Subaru already sees the '10 Legacy GT as a bone thrown as a performance variant, and that even a minimized role in the Legacy catalog.

 

Subaru's performance focus is probably going to come from Japan, not out of SOA. SOA doesn't seem to be too interested.

 

Even the US-sold Impreza based vehicles come out of Japan. We'll probably see a bit of tweaking on the Impreza lineup... maybe an STI variant of the Impreza sedan, along-side the 5-door.

 

Forester hopefully, will get a new XT Sport model, more along the lines of a WRX, with 268hp, and a 5-speed manual. maybe a slim chance of it going even higher with some STI equipment.

 

Probably the meat of the focus will be on the Subaru Coupe, their half of the FT-86 project. I hope that is a home run, inside, or out of the park... a base hit or foul ball won't really cut it.

[Sideways the Seven]

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this, but I seriously think that a more performance oriented variant of the LGT is coming. Subaru is enjoying record sales figures and consistently increasing their market share and it only makes good sense to strike while the iron is hot. I think the Legacy STi/Spec B/whatever should be right on the heels of the FT-86, STi sedan, and Forester Sport releases.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

My point is that they have set their targets this time for the Legacy on more vanilla competition. The WRX is their sports model, the Legacy is not. We have heard as much in interviews from Subaru people. Whereas before they may have been willing to buck the trends, at this point, just having a GT version of the Legacy is already straying from the Camry and Accord archetype they are trying to fit.

 

As for the Mazdaspeed 6, that hasn't been made in a few years IIRC

[Sideways the Seven]

My point is that they have set their targets this time for the Legacy on more vanilla competition. The WRX is their sports model, the Legacy is not. We have heard as much in interviews from Subaru people. Whereas before they may have been willing to buck the trends, at this point, just having a GT version of the Legacy is already straying from the Camry and Accord archetype they are trying to fit.

 

As for the Mazdaspeed 6, that hasn't been made in a few years IIRC

 

But most of their mainstream targets already have sport "baked-in" to their cars. The Camry, even though there might not be a limited-production "sport" model, the Camry SE is actually pretty quick and decently sporty for a DD. Same goes for the Altima, Mazda 6, Fusion or Taurus (depending on who you ask), and others in it's class. Also, they seem to be trying to go a little upscale with the new Legacy and all of the more prestigious companies have some sort of performance model of even their most pedestrian cars.

[rao]

The 2010 Legacy is already the best car ever built or ever to be built so how exactly could a "better" model be made?

 

BTW, using "baked in" means you have spent way to much time at meetings with white broads and you need deprogramming immediately.

[Sideways the Seven]

The 2010 Legacy is already the best car ever built or ever to be built so how exactly could a "better" model be made?

 

BTW, using "baked in" means you have spent way to much time at meetings with white broads and you need deprogramming immediately.

 

LOL! I seriously laughed out loud when I saw this one because this chick just said that in a meeting.

[Siper2]

Have to agree with Siper there.

 

They are taking the Legacy against mainstream targets. Mainstream targets that don't have performance variants, where Subaru already sees the '10 Legacy GT as a bone thrown as a performance variant, and that even a minimized role in the Legacy catalog.

 

Subaru's performance focus is probably going to come from Japan, not out of SOA. SOA doesn't seem to be too interested.

 

Even the US-sold Impreza based vehicles come out of Japan. We'll probably see a bit of tweaking on the Impreza lineup... maybe an STI variant of the Impreza sedan, along-side the 5-door.

 

Forester hopefully, will get a new XT Sport model, more along the lines of a WRX, with 268hp, and a 5-speed manual. maybe a slim chance of it going even higher with some STI equipment.

 

Probably the meat of the focus will be on the Subaru Coupe, their half of the FT-86 project. I hope that is a home run, inside, or out of the park... a base hit or foul ball won't really cut it.

 

Ah, forgot about the coupe thing. That indeed may spark another sports-oriented interest, in the brand.

 

While I lament the Legacy growing to compete with the midsize cars, I personally don't think it's ballooned THAT much. Others seem to disagree... in hoardes... but I really don't see the '10 Legacy as a huge car. Bigger, yes, but previous generations often grew as well. Besides, whether we like it or not, Subaru has to remain competitive. And with the Legacy, that means they've got to gun for the Accord and Camry, particularly since AWD isn't their exclusive trump card, anymore. It's a rapidly-expanding niche.

 

There's definitely a market for a small-midsize sports sedan from Subaru, but... only if they stuck to the luxury market. And I think that's the problem. We all know that the turbo EJ series can handily keep up with the A4s and 3-series and so forth, but... Subaru isn't a luxury marque. If they start pricing themselves even HIGHER than they do now, they'll start to remove themselves from their original, core buyer group.

 

People LOVED being able to get a relatively inexpensive vehicle, with standard AWD, a great driving mannerism, and stellar reliability. Subaru would like to play from all angles, but they aren't big enough. Who knows if the Tribeca will last? The Outback is a hit. The Impreza is a hit. The Legacy becomes a bit of a wild card, even though it was there first.

 

So, you make it marginally larger than an Impreza sedan, to compete against base Audis and Bimmers, or you give it a slight boost in size, and try to make some of that mainstream money, to keep the company afloat.

[Siper2]

LOL! I seriously laughed out loud when I saw this one because this chick just said that in a meeting.

 

Me too! Even though rao isn't one for sarcasm.

 

 

Get it?

[Sideways the Seven]

Ah, forgot about the coupe thing. That indeed may spark another sports-oriented interest, in the brand.

 

While I lament the Legacy growing to compete with the midsize cars, I personally don't think it's ballooned THAT much. Others seem to disagree... in hoardes... but I really don't see the '10 Legacy as a huge car. Bigger, yes, but previous generations often grew as well. Besides, whether we like it or not, Subaru has to remain competitive. And with the Legacy, that means they've got to gun for the Accord and Camry, particularly since AWD isn't their exclusive trump card, anymore. It's a rapidly-expanding niche.

 

There's definitely a market for a small-midsize sports sedan from Subaru, but... only if they stuck to the luxury market. And I think that's the problem. We all know that the turbo EJ series can handily keep up with the A4s and 3-series and so forth, but... Subaru isn't a luxury marque. If they start pricing themselves even HIGHER than they do now, they'll start to remove themselves from their original, core buyer group.

 

People LOVED being able to get a relatively inexpensive vehicle, with standard AWD, a great driving mannerism, and stellar reliability. Subaru would like to play from all angles, but they aren't big enough. Who knows if the Tribeca will last? The Outback is a hit. The Impreza is a hit. The Legacy becomes a bit of a wild card, even though it was there first.

 

So, you make it marginally larger than an Impreza sedan, to compete against base Audis and Bimmers, or you give it a slight boost in size, and try to make some of that mainstream money, to keep the company afloat.

 

I agree, the Legacy might have grown in size, but only so it can compete in a market dominated by bigger cars.

 

I think they could push a uplevel LGT, but it should be limited-production and definitely worth the price premium. People who buy sporting vehicles are VERY aware of what Subie is capable of courtesy of the WRX/STi and would likely take to a car with similar peformance, but a larger size and with more overall refinement. I am one of those people. Take a look at Hyundai/Kia. The Genesis sedan has $40K price tag and people are snatching those up left and right, BUT it also has a level of refinement fitting a $40K car. Now, I have heard that they're planning to split showrooms to showcase the Genesis sedan and upcoming ultra-lux Equus away from their cheaper, mainstream models as not to dilute brand identity and alienate the people that helped them get where they are today and maybe this is something Subaru should consider, build your STi whatevers, but sell them AWAY from where your volume leaders are. People who come to buy a STi aren't looking at the Impreza GT and people buying Legacy 2.5is aren't cross-shopping GTs.

[Siper2]

The Genesis is wild, isn't it? From HYUNDAI of all people! Never judge a book by its cover.

 

I like the idea of an "STi center" at a dealership, but I don't think it would fly, in the US. I wish it would, but I doubt it. Maybe they could start by furthering the parts offerings. The dealer nearest me also sells VW, and I always love checking out the VW parts/performance catalog. I mean, like any dealer/factory option, they're all stupidly overpriced, but there's sooooooooo much available.

 

STi has a lot, too, but it's all tucked away in Japan websites that 0.00008% of the US population even know about. Like I said, in my opinion, the spec.B was a bit of a tester car. We have SPT, we have Drive Performance magazine... we have forums full of enthusiasts...

 

But the green speaks, people have to buy stuff, not just talk about it. I could be just as guilty as the next guy - I drooled over lots of parts, but wasn't a trust fund kid or an overpaid, single 21-year-old with nothing else to do with my $95K paycheck. Y'know? 'Course that's just a sarcastic generalization. There are a lot of people who could afford things if Subaru offered them, probably, but the brand identity in North America is a LOT different than it is, in Japan. Obviously.

[Sideways the Seven]

Me too! Even though rao isn't one for sarcasm.

 

 

Get it?

 

That's one of the reasons it was so funny.

 

The Genesis is wild, isn't it? From HYUNDAI of all people! Never judge a book by its cover.

 

I like the idea of an "STi center" at a dealership, but I don't think it would fly, in the US. I wish it would, but I doubt it. Maybe they could start by furthering the parts offerings. The dealer nearest me also sells VW, and I always love checking out the VW parts/performance catalog. I mean, like any dealer/factory option, they're all stupidly overpriced, but there's sooooooooo much available.

 

STi has a lot, too, but it's all tucked away in Japan websites that 0.00008% of the US population even know about. Like I said, in my opinion, the spec.B was a bit of a tester car. We have SPT, we have Drive Performance magazine... we have forums full of enthusiasts...

 

But the green speaks, people have to buy stuff, not just talk about it. I could be just as guilty as the next guy - I drooled over lots of parts, but wasn't a trust fund kid or an overpaid, single 21-year-old with nothing else to do with my $95K paycheck. Y'know? 'Course that's just a sarcastic generalization. There are a lot of people who could afford things if Subaru offered them, probably, but the brand identity in North America is a LOT different than it is, in Japan. Obviously.

 

Yeah, an STi specific section with multiple models would be perfect and Subaru is seriously starting to turn some heads so maybe they'll reconsider their business plan. Offering 1 or 2 peformance models is fine when you're a small company, but if the're going mainstream they're going to have to be more competitive-expanding products lines and packages to fit your expanding customer base. And in the US, not just overseas.

[Siper2]

Well, we'll see. Wishful thinking, I say.

 

What I really want to see is the return of the Legacy wagon. The last two years have shown a huge turn toward cars of that design and size.... I think it'd be a viable option, again. Even a Venza/Crosstour-like fastback option would potentially be nifty.

 

And yes, THAT I would buy.

[IwannaSportSedan]

The Venza type vehicle is what outback WAS, and is supposed to be. Now Outback is nearly as big as a full CUV/SUV anyway. It is very close to Tribeca's size, and bigger than the larger new Forester.

 

And a 5-door fastback sedan would be great, in a sport sedan.

 

As a CUV, it is kinda stupid. In a CUV, why not have the full roof height, and a vertical tailgate hatch?

 

But the Mazda 6 5-door left the US. And the Audi A5 Sportback is not going to come to the US in the first place.

[Siper2]

The Outback was, and is, a wagon. The Venza is not a wagon, nor is the Crosstour or X6, or anything similar.

[IwannaSportSedan]

The outback was a wagon, lifted to fit light truck standards. Now it is a pseudo-wagon that is as big as a mid-sized CUV.

 

Venza is a mix of wagon and CUV built on the Toyota Camry. A tall body from door sill to window sill, like a CUV; and a wagon-style glasshouse and roofline, with a bit of a rake on the back glass.

 

The Crosstour, Acura's version of it, and the BMW 5-series GT, and especially X6, are high ride height (except maybe 5-GT), tall bodied cars, that happen to have 5-door sedan liftback rooflines, which is not the same as a wagon roofline, due to horizontal roof length. Cutting off the interior volume by cutting the roof height way down, and sleeking it back is counter to the point of a CUV type vehicle, which is supposed to have practicality, and capacity for people and cargo.

 

Crosstour, and X6, and this new breed of tall car, is what happens when CAFE regulations have a double standard. What would otherwise be a normal 5-door sporty sedan, like a Mazda 6 or A5 Sportback, becomes a behemoth like the Crosstour and X6, and gets classified under the less restricted "light truck" segment.

 

Outback was one of the first vehicles to exploit that, since AMC Eagles came and went before the 1990s update to CAFE that really pushed SUVs to the front.

 

Outback made the Legacy Wagon apply to the light truck classification. Outback did it well, because the body was still as lithe as a wagon, just higher off the ground, and the wagon's full length roof still had some practicality for cargo space in a vehicle that wasn't based on a pickup truck. The new outback has taken it to the point where the body is no longer as lithe as a wagon, it is as big and bulky as any other CUV, and just retains a bit of the "look" of a wagon in the window graphic.

 

These new tall cars like Crosstour have all the aerodynamic inefficiency and frontal area of a CUV, and then try to claim aerodynamics with a fastback profile on the roof that doesn't solve the frontal brick-like profile, and just cuts down on rear seat headroom, and cargo room, which most CUVs otherwise have.

 

The worst of both worlds, and the best of neither.

 

If I want sleek aerodynamics and good looks, I want a low, sleek car with a low sleek roofline. Not something as big as a house, like Crosstour and X6.

 

If I want a CUV, it would be to have a practical vehicle that I can haul people and stuff with. If I have to have a vehicle that big, I want it to be as versatile as possible with it's interior space and some towing capability, not a vehicle that plays at sleekness, and compromises capability.

[Siper2]

I do agree that the Outback's new size takes it outside of what we would call a wagon by "car" standards. Especially since it's now designated as an SUV, which I personally disagree with.

 

I suppose I just see the Outback as a wagon, regardless of what the manufacturers and government say. Something like the RDX, EX35, X3, XC60, GLK... I see those as crossovers/small SUVs/CUVs. The Crosstour or Venza... also CUVs I suppose, but not wagons.

[Siper2]

Oh...

 

I agree with your comment on the aerodynamics. I also find it a bit silly, that manufacturers sometimes interject coefficient of drag statements in with the advertising, for these things. It is indeed worth a chuckle.

 

The Crosstour and Venza, at least, to me don't seem all that large. Heftier than their respective Accord and Camry base cars, of course, but I like the size. The Crosstour is far prettier in person, than I expected. For a couple or small family who don't need much cargo capacity, other than a slight bump over a sedan's ability, it's a novel option.

[lookslikeanevo]

and bump

[boostcreep]

the rumor i heard over on 3gwx is that the sti sedan and A wide body wrx will be unveiled @ the ny auto show.

 

DON'T KILL THE MESSENGER! LOL

[LegGTLT]

Well, the all new 2010 was revealed there so it wouldn't surprise me if they updated the Legacy and STI and revealed it there again as well.

 

B4- Any comments?

[The B4]

Well, the all new 2010 was revealed there so it wouldn't surprise me if they updated the Legacy and STI and revealed it there again as well.

 

B4- Any comments?

http://i40.tinypic.com/29z35ex.gif

[LegGTLT]

Awww, don't be grumpy.

 

Just curious if NY is the place where SOA will reveal the really cool stuff coming up!

[jjwink]

OK

 

http://www.subaru.com/auto-show/index.html

[jjwink]

Widebody = Good ?

[BrooklynBoy]

I would buy a Legacy STI in half-a-heartbeat. (But not if it looked like a gen5).....those grossly oversized fender flares make me ill.