Whats to come for 2011? spec? or STI?

[Ridgeracer]

oh noes, a subaru for 40K, unpossible as no one would EVAR pay anything above 30K for a subaru :lolz:

 

Wait....you feel the same way too heights...

[bbjones121]

oh noes, a subaru for 40K, unpossible as no one would EVAR pay anything above 30K for a subaru :lolz:

Unless it had an extra 100+ hp and carried the SOA warranty. There are a lot of people that want a fast/torquey Subaru and don't want to buy the younger sibling- the Impreza- or do warranty voiding modifications.

 

If the Subaru Legacy STI did come out with around 400 hp, how much are cars with similar performance numbers that can comfortably carry four people??

[j255c]

I dont foresee subaru ever selling a 4 cylinder with anything greater than 350chp. They are having a difficult enough time declining warranty claims popping motors at 300hp.

[bbjones121]

Who said anything about the 4 cylinder putting out that much power? I am talking about a six cylinder turbo if they find somewhere to put it. That would be sweet.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I don't think the EZ series H6s have enough material in them to be robust enough for factory turbocharging, while being reliable enough for warranty considerations. Tuning is one thing... but putting thousands of the engines out, and then standing behind them is another.

 

The EG33 could have done that, with it's derivation from the EJ22, and it's 7 main bearings. It was basically an advanced EJ22 DOHC with 2 more cylinders, and high compression, rather than turbocharging, and for it's day, and even today, is a very nice engine.

 

The EZ is shorter, smaller, and the cylinders are closer together, with thinner walls. A recipe for engines to pop under pressure.

 

But for non-turbo, it is lighter, and more compact, and has more technology put into it, being a later generation engine, which nets it more specific output, especially the EZ30"R" variant, and EZ36 engines.

[The B4]

Not sure what the aftermarket has done to beef up EZ's. but I believe 2 outfits have turbo'd the EZ reliably. Says to me it can be done.

[IwannaSportSedan]

re-read.

 

Perrin, and others who have built turbocharged EZs have gotten them to run, and they make a lot of power.

 

But that is building an engine out of your own pocket, by hand, and if it blows, tough luck, chuck.

 

You, of all people, should know that it is a completely different thing for Subaru to build thousands of them, in a factory, to be installed in a car as it's being manufactured, probably by a machine, and then having them be reliable enough that any ham-fisted buyer can buy one, drive it, and possibly make warranty claims on it... and Subaru not lose money on a high volume of warranty claims for failed engines.

 

Modifications in the aftermarket are a whole different ball game. Even my Stage 2 Legacy, which has developed a boost leak, is something I am going to have to pay to fix, because it isn't running factory boost levels, and it has probably blown the seal on the craptacular plastic intercooler, or something.

 

If I were not running stage 2, I would have been in to the service department for warranty service already.

[The B4]

I'm just saying... depending on what they've done... the engine may be able to handle boost without exploding. If the cylinder walls weren't thick enough to begin with... then it probably wouldn't have been done in the first place.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Cylinder walls are just one aspect. smaller water jackets, narrower bearing journals, EZ36's asymmetrical rods, piston construction, bolt and stud sizes and strengths, thermal mass of the engine, and it's cooling system...

 

...all sorts of things that not only have to be strong enough on one engine, but have to be strong enough on EVERY engine with an extra margin for error, to compensate for the unforseen.

 

Not a set of cylinder sleeves, or specially machined forged pistons, and hand picked ARP studs, and still no guarantees.

 

But mass market parts, in batches of dozens, hundreds, or thousands...

 

All to be used by any hot-rodder off the street who has the cash to plunk down for a down-payment on the car, and then drive it like they stole it, but will still come in for warranty repair when they fry the piston rings, break the lands, overboost with boost controllers or ECU flashes, and noisy blow-off valves, or coking the turbo(s) with old motor oil, or clog some stupid little filtered banjo bolt that Subaru didn't realize would be a problem...

 

Subaru has to not only make a profit on such an engine in a car, but they can't afford to spend themselves into a deficit when covering the engines under warranty, or ruin their word-of-mouth reputation for reliable performance, which means that the engines have to have more than a razor thin margin for error.

 

A hand-built aftermarket engine in the hands of an experienced tuner and driver can skirt on a much thinner margin for error, and maybe even still survive it.

[The B4]

I understand what you're saying... but it's very general and theoretical. I've reliably heard of Subaru testing a turbo H6... that alone is enough to tell me it can be done.

[IwannaSportSedan]

But, did they say whether that was an EZ block, or an EG block?

[The B4]

both? that's probably the best answer.

[IwannaSportSedan]

That isn't an answer, that is a guess on your part.

 

And even if they did test forced induction on the EZ engines, that doesn't mean the testing bore out results that a force-fed EZ would be affordable to build and cover with a warranty.

[The B4]

it's not a guess. that answer requires explanation... which would in turn lead to FHI ninjas.

[IwannaSportSedan]

An answer is not followed by a question mark.

 

A guess or hypothesis might be.

 

So, if a hypothetical answer is not certain, and might bring down censorship... it isn't an answer.

 

Back on topic, if I had to guess... 2011 will be largely a maintenance year. Maybe the WRX STI Sedan bodystyle will break cover...

[Chris Godawski]

I think the next step they need to look at is direct injection. They should be able to eek out more ponies if they apply that and a much more efficient CAC i think it would be worth the while.

Unless they stiffen up the new leggy and up the power, they outta just call it a Passat. They need to make a 2011 Spec B that strips some of the amenities (I.e. weight) and adds the bilstiens and the brembos.

[The B4]

I don't want direct injection unless it's easy to tune.

[Chris Godawski]

Any reason that it isn't?

[dga]

^^^I think they have booster fuel pumps, kind of like the VW 2.0 turbo, direct-injection engine, which are expensive to replace from what I hear. I don't know if the tuning itself will be harder, but I think direct-injection systems will be a lot more expensive to upgrade to handle higher fuel needs.

[lookslikeanevo]

mitsu has done direct inject in a lot of their jdm only engines with tons of tuning potential...

[GEE-OTTO]

Well for all the gripe you can get a 08/09 LGT or Spec B starting at the mid $20K's and lower. And I know the new leggy looks like a Elantra, Altima, etc but I test drove the 2010 LGT this wknd and WOW!

[Chris Godawski]

Nothing is going to stay or get any cheaper when it comes to tuning...

[redstriker]

if there is going to be a legacy sti....i wud buy it as soon as it is out

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Is there an Accord type-R or high performance Camry available here? If no, then there's your answer..

[Siper2]

I disagree with that. Honda had the ITR for several years, then when it transitioned to the RSX, we never saw a Type-R in North America. And this was just as the 2002 WRX came to down, and blew away everything in its wake. Honda, former champ of the sport compact segment, essentially didn't compete. Nobody did, for a good few years.

 

It's not always a level playing field. Honda's never had an Accord Type-R here - they leave the performance musings to Acura, even though that (to some people) is questionable. Though it unfortunately got no extra power, the spec.B was a nice package, if overpriced. A lot of people here whine endlessly about it, but truth be told, a lot of them/us would've killed for the Bilstein struts in 2005 or earlier. The grass is always greener, as they say.

 

(I personally feel that the spec.B should've come with better springs, and an SPT CBE as standard, as well. For the same price.)

 

I liken the spec.B to the 1998-2001 2.5RS. It's a bit of a placebo, maybe a feeler for the market. Unfortunately, 2009 didn't result in great things for the automotive world... or the rest of the economy, for that matter. That might have killed, or at least postponed, something that SoA *might* have tried to bring for us. That's just a hunch, though.

 

We do have the Mazdaspeed 6, even though one might say that's really just competition for the standard LGT/LGT Limited. It's entirely possible that we see the STi division expand, in the US... I'd love it. The previous-gen Forester XT Sports was pretty successful, or at least I think it met its intended mark. These little dangling carrots might not be the full-blown cars we want them to be, but North America has to put its money where its mouth is.

 

If we truly want to see a Legacy STi, then the LGT has to sell like hotcakes. But Subaru doesn't necessarily have to see an Accord Type-R or Camry TRD in every parking lot, to think, "Okay, let's do it." Competition is one thing, but their own customer base has to prove that they'll buy the product. Subaru's conservative - everyone knows this. They haven't gone bankrupt, when just about everyone else has.