Subaru Posts Record Sales in July

[The B4]

But it won't get you back into a Legacy because of it's performance.

 

If you wanted performance, you would be, or you will be keeping your STI...

 

 

ARE YOU INSANE????????? The 2005 to 2009 Legacy is a better car in EVERY WAY than the 2000-2004 Legacy.

 

I blame the Legacy nameplate's obscurity, to the point that people don't even recognize it in some cases... ON THE BORING AS HELL 2000-2004 LEGACY. When the BL came along, and was barely even mentioned by Subaru marketing, how can you blame people for not knowing about it?

 

The 2000-2004 was a solid car. The outback version was very popular, and I see them everywhere. but it was about as much fun as watching paint dry.

 

The BL Legacy targeted the Audi A4, and ACTUALLY OFFERED BETTER VALUE. For your belly-aching about rear seat leg room, the 2005 Legacy was OPULENT compared to the 2005 Audi A4, and offered more power and standard AWD for thousands less than a 2.0T A4 Quattro of that day.

 

SUBARU failed the Legacy by not letting anyone know about it. The BL Legacy is a fantastic car with some detail issues, and an utter lack of market awareness. Subaru's product planning has gone demonstrably down hill since.

 

If BL Legacy had a real problem when it was launched in the US it was the fact that it didn't offer the 3.0R engine right away, for a bit more diverse market appeal, when other companies have offered V6s for a VERY long time. JDM got the 3.0R Legacy from the start, AND A SPORT PACKAGE 3.0R SPEC B, with a manual gearbox. IN ADDITION to the GT and GT Spec B.

 

SOA didn't reach 250,000 sales because that was an unrealistic goal for a company that doesn't know how to SELL the cars they build. They BOTCHED the first generation Tribeca. It should have NEVER been brought to market looking the way it did...

 

Instead of offering a wider product spread, with wider appeal, they started CANCELLING OPTIONS, COLOR CHOICES, AND BODY STYLES!

 

You come here and denegrate enthusiasm in the Legacy product line, by dismissing Legacy's enthusiast appeal, and you give SOA a pass on drastically poor product planning choices.

 

Who do you think you are talking to on this forum? Appliance buyers?

 

Get a bloody clue, because you are completely operating on some sort of idiocy that doesn't bear resemblance to actual reality and history.

 

YOU HAVE to be operating for SOA in some capacity. There is absolutely no other reason for you to DENEGRATE the BL Legacy as badly as you just have, in favor of the new product that SOA is trying to foist on people.

 

YOU REEK OF SOA'S NEW INFORMATION CONTROL REVISIONIST POLICY.

 

 

I am keeping the STI. The Legacy is for my Fiance. There's no way i'm allowing a non sporty vehicle in my household that I might have to touch at some point. And SOA would never tell you that the current Legacy is a failure... which it is... They focused on the GT model at first and it fell flat on its face. The current Legacy's "success" is all due to a shift in focus to 2.5i.

 

So if this Legacy outsells the BL... are you going to blame it on lack of recognition as well? From an enthusiasts perspective... the 2010 drives a hell of a lot better than the BL... It's quieter, smoother, has less body roll, and picks up like stink on the highway.

[The B4]

Originally Posted by The B4 View Post

the people who keep talking about decontenting fail to talk about what's been added. you can right them off all you want... but the fact remains

 

 

 

Still waiting.....what was added???? Ugly headlights?? Hyundai tail, Aztek wheel flares? Camry styling? Flat seats?

 

There is two things I like on the 2010. Hood lifts and the hinges on the trunk.

The doors close nice also.

 

I'm not going to rehash the press release again because the detractors conveniently forget the advances and only focus on the subtractions.

[Throttlejockey]

I'm not going to rehash the press release again because the detractors conveniently forget the advances and only focus on the subtractions.

 

That's what I thought. Nothing to add, SOAB4.

[The B4]

That's what I thought. Nothing to add, SOAB4.

 

just not wasting my fingers for the billionth time like you seem to enjoy doing.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I am keeping the STI. The Legacy is for my Fiance. There's no way i'm allowing a non sporty vehicle in my household that I might have to touch at some point.

 

Not exactly a ringing endorsement. I chose Legacy GT when I couldn't afford two new vehicles... and needed one that was both comfortable, AND enthusiast worthy FOR ME. And my wife drives a sports car every day.

 

And SOA would never tell you that the current Legacy is a failure... which it is... They focused on the GT model at first and it fell flat on its face. The current Legacy's "success" is all due to a shift in focus to 2.5i.

 

No, SOA would just do the same thing that everyone does when I answer their question as to what car I am driving...

 

"Legacy wha??"

 

So if this Legacy outsells the BL... are you going to blame it on lack of recognition as well? From an enthusiasts perspective... the 2010 drives a hell of a lot better than the BL... It's quieter, smoother, has less body roll, and picks up like stink on the highway.

 

It might outsell. And those buyers may not give a damn. And they might follow the next thing the next time. And there is one less real sport sedan on the market for those of us who do care for more than just a car for "our fiancé"

 

Quiet and smooth are ride quality, not capability. A 12 year old BUICK is quiet and smooth. So friggin' what.

 

Body roll would be hard not to improve on because SOA *BORKED* the suspension on the USDM GT from the factory. I'll bet they won't admit that, either. Horribly under-damped, harsh over sharp pavement like frost-heaved pavement seams, and not enough anti-roll. the JDM GT had a stock larger rear sway bar a YEAR BEFORE the '05 debuted in the US, and Bilstein dampers were far more widely used. Their non-bilstein dampers were probably better, too.

 

Their new ads for the '10 Legacy are more than they did for the '05. There was one Legacy add, that mostly showed OTHER CARS driving on front or rear wheels, and talked about AWD without mentioning performance at all.

 

Most reviews have said that the new turbo setup, while still strong, is less dramatic than the past. My stage 2 Legacy picks up on the highway, from a stop sign, or in any other situation just FINE, and the shifter doesn't balk when I need it to work, either. The new one is cable-shifted, and everyone who has experienced it has said it is a step backwards.

 

The Turbo on the new Legacy isn't really the problem anyway. The fact that it looks, and likely tastes like the same crap on a stick mainstream appliance-buyer targeting that Honda and Toyota are trying to sell to the lowest common denominator customer is the problem.

[The B4]

Please go drive a stock 09 GT and then a 2010 before you comment. The 2010 feels way more buttoned down. It rolls less than my stock STI. There's virtually no turbo lag... so you don't feel the turbo kick in. It feels like an ultra smooth 6 cylinder. It just builds power from the get go. I'm sure some will miss the slingshot feel. The shifter felt different, but not a deal breaker... it will actually facilitate the purchase as its much easier to shift for my fiance. It also isn't sitting at a bazillion RPM at 70 MPH. The car drove great, felt great, hung on in the curves, and picked up steam like a champ. I expected sliding, rolling, and pushing. It definitely feels bigger when you're in it... but it shrinks considerably as you realize it's not rolling around like a boat. We are going to drive again this weekend and also try a 3.6R.

 

I'm sorry IWSS... but the drum you're beating is worn out. I think examining all of your posts regarding Subaru over the years and matching them up to reality would make for a good study on internet know-it-alls and real business planning.

[Ridgeracer]

[rao]

Sounds like a great reason to drop the turbo since the H6 already exists.

 

BTW, not only is the 05-09 Legacy a failure the whole Subaru line up is a failure because SUBARUS SUCK!!!!! I read about that somewhere.

[IwannaSportSedan]

B4, Exactly what drum am I beating? You go back and read my posts... have fun, there is plenty of material...

 

And I am not required to take time out of my day, time out of some salesman's day, and 7 gallons of gas to get there, and drive several different cars, to put mileage on a car I won't buy, just to comment here.

 

I am not that stupid that I can't size things up without having to mess around first. None of my comments are likely to change, even in the context of what others, even YOU, have written about driving the '10 Legacy...

 

You are just trying to discredit me, rather than actually discussing my points, and you can't discredit me that way.

 

I have lambasted Subaru in the past for the deficiencies that the BL had, and Spec B's cost not being supported by value, and their subtractive policy of cutting bodystyles, colors, choices, and options... long before the '10 was even on the table.

 

But I have also said that the BL Legacy was one of the best values on the market for sporty sedans under $35k, and inherently a superior platform.

 

I voice my opinion, as I see it, and I base it on the facts, not on a sales goal, or a corporate philosophy.

 

YOU, B4, on the other hand... denegrate the sport sedan status of the BL as if it should never have been one, and then turn around and say that the '10 is a sporty car, when it isn't as sporty as the BL GT and Spec B were, and that the '10 is better when Subaru gives a little with one hand, and takes a lot with the other.

 

Your description of the Legacy... sounds like it describes a Buick Regal GS or something. Whoopie... You might as well be talking about a 6-cylinder Camry... which most people will probably choose over the Legacy GT, if they were to compare them, due to the options list.

 

And if the turbo is so damn smooth, why not have an inherently smoother H6 with more off-idle torque? An H6 is one of the most inherently balanced piston engines available. The point of a turbocharged engine is not to be smooth and luxurious..., and plenty of smooth 6-cylinders are plenty quick without the complexity of a turbo system, and no lag whatsoever...

 

If your fiance thinks a cable linkage shifter is "much easier" than a direct linkage, I wonder how she is trying to shift. I have owned cable-shifted cars, and linkage-shifted, and cable shift is weak feedback, pretty much universally. The pivot mechanism for the lever isn't really different, it is how the other end of the lever connects to the gearbox... a flexible cable or a structural linkage that doesn't flex on it's own.

 

The '10 Legacy may be sporty compared to an econo box, or a luxury barge... but that doesn't mean it is what it should be.

[Wang Lung]

Spoke to the sales manager at Maita Subaru in Sacramento today. He said he ordered (10) 2010 Legacies and (10) 2010 Outbacks. He's sold a total of 13 of those. He didn't break out models, but said Outback demand was stronger. He also said he shipped one of each to Texas.

 

Looking at the Legacy brochure and options. There are some cool lighting adds. Illuminated door sill, mood lighting, and puddle lights that ignite when you hit the remote.

[The B4]

B4, Exactly what drum am I beating? You go back and read my posts... have fun, there is plenty of material...

 

And I am not required to take time out of my day, time out of some salesman's day, and 7 gallons of gas to get there, and drive several different cars, to put mileage on a car I won't buy, just to comment here.

 

I am not that stupid that I can't size things up without having to mess around first. None of my comments are likely to change, even in the context of what others, even YOU, have written about driving the '10 Legacy...

 

You are just trying to discredit me, rather than actually discussing my points, and you can't discredit me that way.

 

I have lambasted Subaru in the past for the deficiencies that the BL had, and Spec B's cost not being supported by value, and their subtractive policy of cutting bodystyles, colors, choices, and options... long before the '10 was even on the table.

 

But I have also said that the BL Legacy was one of the best values on the market for sporty sedans under $35k, and inherently a superior platform.

 

I voice my opinion, as I see it, and I base it on the facts, not on a sales goal, or a corporate philosophy.

 

YOU, B4, on the other hand... denegrate the sport sedan status of the BL as if it should never have been one, and then turn around and say that the '10 is a sporty car, when it isn't as sporty as the BL GT and Spec B were, and that the '10 is better when Subaru gives a little with one hand, and takes a lot with the other.

 

Your description of the Legacy... sounds like it describes a Buick Regal GS or something. Whoopie... You might as well be talking about a 6-cylinder Camry... which most people will probably choose over the Legacy GT, if they were to compare them, due to the options list.

 

And if the turbo is so damn smooth, why not have an inherently smoother H6 with more off-idle torque? An H6 is one of the most inherently balanced piston engines available. The point of a turbocharged engine is not to be smooth and luxurious..., and plenty of smooth 6-cylinders are plenty quick without the complexity of a turbo system, and no lag whatsoever...

 

If your fiance thinks a cable linkage shifter is "much easier" than a direct linkage, I wonder how she is trying to shift. I have owned cable-shifted cars, and linkage-shifted, and cable shift is weak feedback, pretty much universally. The pivot mechanism for the lever isn't really different, it is how the other end of the lever connects to the gearbox... a flexible cable or a structural linkage that doesn't flex on it's own.

 

The '10 Legacy may be sporty compared to an econo box, or a luxury barge... but that doesn't mean it is what it should be.

 

you discredit yourself...

 

a) the car is easier to shift... try it for yourself

b) Once again... you focus on what you can spin as negative (just like some other members) instead of everything that was said. The car is WAY more sporty than the BL. It holds the road without rolling and completely defied what I was expecting from the increase in size. The rear end doesn't slide out... it just changes direction very easily... I heard the handling was neutral... but it's really neutral... The power is more responsive. My LGT would thud over some of the rough roads here in the worst way... 2010 is smooth, comfortable, and quiet as a cruiser... but plays harder than my stock 2005 LGT would.

c) The power comes on like a 2.0T Audi...very linear. Since when did you become the authority on the mannerisms of how turbos should be? Eliminating lag has been a big issue with many manufacturers and turbo cars... especially for their non pocket rocket vehicles.

[IwannaSportSedan]

a) the car is easier to shift... try it for yourself

 

OK. The next time I have half a day off work to go find a subaru dealership, 50 miles away, I'll tell them you sent me to check the shifter. The last time I was there, they didn't even have any '10 Legacys, and for the last 5 years, they have barely had any Legacy GTs in stock, probably less than half the time...

 

INCLUDING WHEN I WANTED TO BUY ONE FROM THEM, BTW.

 

And somehow I still doubt a cable-shifter measures up to my Miata's direct shifter, or my Legacy's STI-linkage, Cobb double-adjustable short shifter. And I doubt the cable could be modified to match either one. Both direct, and plenty easy to operate. And by being positive, it avoids missed shifts, and doesn't require more than a finger flick to operate.

 

b) Once again... you focus on what you can spin as negative (just like some other members) instead of everything that was said. The car is WAY more sporty than the BL. It holds the road without rolling and completely defied what I was expecting from the increase in size. The rear end doesn't slide out... it just changes direction very easily... I heard the handling was neutral... but it's really neutral... The power is more responsive. My LGT would thud over some of the rough roads here in the worst way... 2010 is smooth, comfortable, and quiet as a cruiser... but plays harder than my stock 2005 LGT would.

 

I focus on what about the car makes it unattractive to me, because I think it sucks that a car that used to be singularly attractive in it's market segment, is no longer appealing to me. Instead it wants to chase Camry buyers. It is that damn simple.

 

You say WAY more sporty than BL... Somehow I doubt this new Legacy is a BMW M5... THAT is way more sporty than a BL Legacy.

 

I too hate the under-damped thud of the front suspension. That is why I am hoping to put Bilsteins under the car sometime soon. But SUBARU screwed that up. I am not going to give them a cookie for fixing something they should not have screwed up in the first place, and shouldn't have taken them this long to fix, either. That is like giving people hero treatment for finally doing the job they were hired, and have been paid the whole time to do, and are just now getting around to.

 

I have never had my BL's rear end slide out without me trying to do so. What you describe as stability is probably what most people describe as stability... perennial mild understeer. the hallmark of a nice appliance. Most people find truly neutral handling too close to the edge of control, and then call safe handling "neutral" mistakenly, just by the car not wallowing or plowing too badly.

 

c) The power comes on like a 2.0T Audi...very linear. Since when did you become the authority on the mannerisms of how turbos should be? Eliminating lag has been a big issue with many manufacturers and turbo cars... especially for their non pocket rocket vehicles.

 

I don't claim to be an authority, but logic seems to suggest to me, that if YOUR words, "smooth" and "linear" are compliments... a nice 6 cylinder fills that bill more smoothly, and with a more linear powerband, including a healthier torque curve. I currently have both, and while my turbo has much more power, just by firing order it doesn't run as smoothly, or with as much tip-in torque as my H6.

 

Honestly, if you WANT smooth and linear, why bother with the maintenance and complexity of a turbo? My H6 will never develop a boost pressure leak like my Legacy has. Probably from the daft plastic intercooler sides.

 

It won't coke up, or starve for oil, and grenade an expensive turbocharger due to a banjo bolt filter, which I am hoping my Legacy won't do. (I need to get that bolt changed...)

 

I love the power of the turbo engine, and most of that fun is the 'rush' of positive pressure. If you want smooth and linear, why bother with the complexity of a turbo engine? A turbo engine, pretty much ANY turbocharged gasoline engine might as well justify the complexity and expense, by being more 'exciting', than smooth. If you want smooth, get a smoother firing engine with more frequent and evenly spaced power strokes per revolution.

 

H6s do smooth better anyway, and if Subaru would look at Nissan's VQ, they might see that 6s can be pretty quick and fast, even without turbos. A turbo H4 had better make itself stand out as a kickin' performer... not be "smooth" and "linear".

 

Smooth and linear doesn't make my Stage 2 Legacy GT nervous. And turbo rich running and thus fuel thirst doesn't really upset my SVX's H6.

 

If I were looking for a new car, I would want the turbo to be more spectacular than smooth, and if I wanted smooth, I would opt for the H6 over the turbo 4 every time. But of course Subaru wouldn't want to offer choice of gearbox on both of those two engines.

 

And despite all this discussion, there isn't a '10 new-style Legacy that looks as good as my lowered, tinted, black-headlight, Garnet Red Pearl 2005 Legacy GT. I doubt there ever will be, considering '10's shapes and dimensions.

[The B4]

Man I waste my time arguing with your ignorance... which is why i don't justify you with proper responses like I would someone else.

 

The guy who autox's with an STI is digging an understeering appliance? Neutral in my words mean that it wasn't prone to oversteer or understeer that I was expecting for a vehicle of its size. It was flat and neutral and didn't plow or slide. I'm sure I could induce the tail to come out... but it just gripped with very little roll.

 

I'm not comparing your miata to the 2010. I am comparing it to the my LGT, 08 WRX, and 08 STI which all had/have direct rod short throw shifters. It also didn't have a problem going in reverse like the old 5MT had.

 

I like turbos... because I like to mod... 'nuff said. I'll give up lag for immediate hustle in a turbo any day. It's one thing I like about the STI vs. when I had a stock LGT...

 

Your distaste of the LGT's styling is subjective. I attended a huge Subaru event at one of the local dealerships and the car received a LOT of positive praise. You are an armchair CEO and thank goodness that's where you are.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I am not a CEO of anything, nor do I pretend to be. Heaven forbid someone have a different take than your "approved by SOA" line.

 

Sorry to hear that you had reverse trouble. I can't say that I ever have on mine. My car shifts just fine, and although slightly heavier, my Legacy shifts nearly as purely and precisely as the Miata does. My old Probe GT's cable shifter, and various other people's FWD cable-op shifters that I have used for multiple hours haven't been as good, because the cables flex. The cables flex on my motorcycle controls, too. That is what push-pull cables do.

 

Turbos are great for mods. that is fine. But usually turning up the wick on a turbo engine doesn't really strike me as a move toward "smooth" or "linear".

 

I haven't lambasted the new low-front turbo mounting. It could be as good as you say. I was going on your descriptive words, of "smooth" and "linear", and so far you haven't disputed that an H6 does smooth and linear better than a turbo 4, if that is what you are after.

 

Besides... if I were the CEO, the car would be receiving a lot more praise HERE, in the enthusiast Legacy community, as well as at some dealership, receiving praise from who knows who.

 

Because I would never have approved a car that looks as dowdy and SUV-like as the '10 Legacy does.

 

Competent handling wouldn't be touted as new and better, because it would not have the cause to be compared to anything BUT competent. It wouldn't have been screwed up before that.

 

And all of your points wouldn't be over-shadowed by the car looking worse and being less well equipped from the previous year. It would have been better or on par in every category, instead of newly competent in one area, slightly different in another area, and uglier and de-contented otherwise.

[The B4]

I am not a CEO of anything, nor do I pretend to be. Heaven forbid someone have a different take than your "approved by SOA" line.

 

Sorry to hear that you had reverse trouble. I can't say that I ever have on mine. My car shifts just fine, and although slightly heavier, my Legacy shifts nearly as purely and precisely as the Miata does. My old Probe GT's cable shifter, and various other people's FWD cable-op shifters that I have used for multiple hours haven't been as good, because the cables flex. The cables flex on my motorcycle controls, too. That is what push-pull cables do.

 

Turbos are great for mods. that is fine. But usually turning up the wick on a turbo engine doesn't really strike me as a move toward "smooth" or "linear".

 

I haven't lambasted the new low-front turbo mounting. It could be as good as you say. I was going on your descriptive words, of "smooth" and "linear", and so far you haven't disputed that an H6 does smooth and linear better than a turbo 4, if that is what you are after.

 

Besides... if I were the CEO, the car would be receiving a lot more praise HERE, in the enthusiast Legacy community, as well as at some dealership, receiving praise from who knows who.

 

Because I would never have approved a car that looks as dowdy and SUV-like as the '10 Legacy does.

 

Competent handling wouldn't be touted as new and better, because it would not have the cause to be compared to anything BUT competent. It wouldn't have been screwed up before that.

 

And all of your points wouldn't be over-shadowed by the car looking worse and being less well equipped from the previous year. It would have been better or on par in every category, instead of newly competent in one area, slightly different in another area, and uglier and de-contented otherwise.

 

 

Subaru's H6 isn't as smooth... even the 3.6 It makes max HP and torque pretty high in the RPM range and almost feels as if it has turbo lag before the rush of power kicks in.

 

I still don't get this "less well equipped." I will never use more the low, high, and mid for seat heaters. Having driven (and owned) several subies (NA and Turbo) without a rear diff... it doesn't mean that the car can't handle well. The loss of fold/blinkers side mirrors is unfortunate, but if I miss them that much... I will come up with a solution. The new GT seems to handle better than the outgoing car. I will enjoy an 8" nav screen, Sync like ipod integration, voice activated audio, navi, and phone controls, bluetooth integration, an actual overdrive on the highway, summer tires, rear seat room that i'm not embarrassed to have my friends in the car with, a quieter car, better road manners, a harmon kardon sound system that does the name justice, and a much less anonymous car. The only thing that matters to me that was removed are the side mirrors.

[ehsnils]

Spoke to the sales manager at Maita Subaru in Sacramento today. He said he ordered (10) 2010 Legacies and (10) 2010 Outbacks. He's sold a total of 13 of those. He didn't break out models, but said Outback demand was stronger. He also said he shipped one of each to Texas.

 

Looking at the Legacy brochure and options. There are some cool lighting adds. Illuminated door sill, mood lighting, and puddle lights that ignite when you hit the remote.

 

I suspect that the Outback demand is from people that want something that's a bit more economic than a SUV while still having many of the benefits of a SUV.

[Ridgeracer]

I hope this car doesn't sell well....heaven forbids...

[IwannaSportSedan]

After driving an EZ30 Outback while my car was in the shop, and now owning an EG33 SVX... If Subaru has screwed up their H6 since then, that is unfortunate.

 

But in my experience, the H6 is smoother than an H4, turbo or otherwise; and displacement and compression for a naturally aspirated H6 makes it healthier off-idle, unless you really drop the clutch on a turbo engine. Not as much of a rush, but you keep using the words smooth an linear. Peak torque is not the whole deal. Torque curve matters, and larger displacement and higher compression are torqier off-idle, but then flatten out, where turbos start low, and climb fast with positive pressure.

 

Engineering wise, an H6 should be smoother by design than an offset crank, thus offset-firing order V6, smoother than other V-engines including 90 degree V8s, smoother than pretty much any sort of piston engine, short of a V12 or especially a flat 12, or alternatives such as a rotary.

 

BTW, I use more than one setting on the seat heaters, and my wife uses them a lot, and all over the dial. That would be missed.

 

A limited slip differential is a traction device, not a handling device, unless you judge handling by losing traction. A limited slip differential is a very nice thing to have in the snow... After three cars without them, and now my third car WITH one (and both AWD cars in that list do have them)... I know the difference, and not having one is a noticeable omission. Most people with Porsche Boxsters and Caymans before 2009 might agree with me, as Porsche didn't offer them, as a handicap to keep them below the 996's capabilities and specifications. But do now, after many enthusiast owners have had them installed after the fact, and Porsche figured it could get in on that money by offering one from the factory.

 

I couldn't care less about an 8" nav screen, as I can read a map just fine, and my iPhone works just fine for far less than 2000$ that the factory option costs... and I can upgrade with technology, rather than having it built into the car, and obsolete eventually.

 

Ipod integration, voice activated audio, navi, and phone controls, bluetooth integration, an actual overdrive on the highway, all items like proper dampers, that I won't give them props for finally doing right, and well too late. That is their job... and maybe if they made the car modular enough to accept aftermarket hardware, people could add new tech at their discretion, in terms of stereo equipment. The 07-09 Stereos could accept aux inputs, and evidently even iPod dock connectors... The iPod/iPhone interface is better than most in-dash equipment anyway.

 

Summer tires... That is interesting. Subarus primarily sell in northern areas of the US, and AWD has particular advantages in the snow-belt... This makes every buyer in that geography require new tires within the first year of ownership. Maybe even a whole new set of wheels and tires, if they swap for the season... It isn't as if the OE wheels are all that good looking, anyway.

 

rear seat room that i'm not embarrassed to have my friends in the car with

- Again... My 05 holds 4 passengers just dandy. it was far more generous than an '05 A4, and even with the better rear seat room in the '10, it doesn't justify the huge increase in height.

 

a quieter car, better road manners, a harmon kardon sound system that does the name justice

Again, all could have been done without making the car look like a car impersonating an elephant.

 

and a much less anonymous car.

Are you kidding me? This is much more derivative of ALL the other mainstream sedans on the market. There isn't one trait on the '10 Legacy that is unique to the Legacy... it is a hodge-podge of everyone else's designs. The 05-09 was cohesive, dignified, and attractive. Certainly lower and sleeker in profile, and nowhere near as bulky looking. Leave the bulky looks to the SUVs...

 

Headlights: Merc R-class or Infiniti G... take your pick

Grille: chevrolet

Lower bumper cover... any number of bland appliances

Fenders: new Acuras

side window glass shape: Honda Accord, Nissan Maxima, and a bit of Infiniti G

Tail lights: rip off of E90/92 BMWs... which is not a compliment. I hate tail lights that don't meet across body seams.

The convex tail panel treatment is bland compared to the concave tail panel on the BL Legacys.

 

The only thing that matters to me that was removed are the side mirrors.

to you... as above, some of the other stuff that was removed matters to some of the rest of us... and we are sad to see it go.

[Wang Lung]

- Again... My 05 holds 4 passengers just dandy. it was far more generous than an '05 A4, and even with the better rear seat room in the '10, it doesn't justify the huge increase in height.

 

I've had my '08 for 14 months and have never had an adult sit in the back. Both times I've tried, they refused, and we took another car. I would never sit in the back of this car.

[The B4]

I've had my '08 for 14 months and have never had an adult sit in the back. Both times I've tried, they refused, and we took another car. I would never sit in the back of this car.

 

That's too much reality for IWSS. I regularly go out with friends and I typically want to drive. It didn't stop my friends from letting me drive... but the back seat wasn't a happy place to be for anyone of any height.

[The B4]

offtopic... but IWSS... have you ever considered donating to this site?

[IwannaSportSedan]

I have considered it.

 

Every time I think about it, I get insulted by people complaining about me or my posts, rather than talking about cars... and I change my mind again. As much as I want to support the site, I have a compunction about paying toward infrastructure for otherwise anonymous people to use to insult me.

 

And, BTW... I have had my mother, father, and wife in the car... as well as my brother, sister-in-law, and wife in the car on several occasions. My brother, father, and myself are big germanic midwestern types. Not exactly short or small. We fit fine. Maybe not for hundreds of miles, but that is what bigger vehicles are for, and I don't take that many long trips with 3 other passengers.

 

I don't need a behemoth to do what I need to do. Most of the time I don't need more than a coupe, and when I do, the Legacy does great. I don't need to haul around that much extra space all the time, otherwise I would have a car like a G8 GT, or a used BMW 5, or a used Infiniti M, or something suited for that.

 

If Legacy wants to be more comfortable, it should have done so without getting beaten by the ugly stick.

[jagcars26]

I have considered it.

 

Every time I think about it, I get insulted by people complaining about me or my posts, rather than talking about cars... and I change my mind again. As much as I want to support the site, I have a compunction about paying toward infrastructure for otherwise anonymous people to use to insult me.

 

/quote]

 

You arrogant bastard

 

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo102/jagcars26/elitism.jpg

[IwannaSportSedan]

It isn't arrogant, nor is it elitist.

 

The fact of the matter is... there are several members here, not all by any means, that love to tear me to pieces and insult me. They love to perrenially comment about the length of my posts, and all manner of other things... including calling me all sorts of names... like Jagcars just did.

 

I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me. I know a lot of people do, and will continue to. People are free to, just as I am. I don't have to agree with what you say to agree that your right to say them should be defended.

 

But often, it isn't a discussion about why my automotive points are wrong, or other on-topic discussion. Not even off-topic, but yet automotive-pertinent discussions. It often becomes an ad-hominem attack on me, personally.

 

It was bad enough a few months ago that I abandoned this site entirely for well more than a week, before easing back, because I like talking WITH people about Subarus, especially Legacys, and this is the place for that, despite those attacks.

 

I have thought about contributing, but my fiscal issues are my own. And I have a hard time looking at my bills, and then thinking that what little I have left over should be spent on a forum where people do attack me for what I write. This forum will not fold for lack of my contribution, and if that were the case, it would change my consideration. If I wanted to pay for web space for some reason, I would pay for a blog URL, and solely publish my own material, and not subject myself to such insults for my money.

 

People can continue to attack me, if they feel the need to do so. That doesn't mean that I should feel generous about supporting that financially. And it is not as though those ad-hominem personal attacks have been stemmed by admins, despite such things to that extent of severity, are against the policies of the forum. That is fine, that is their choice to let things hash themselves out... again, it doesn't necessarily make me feel generous. It is after all a donation, not a membership fee or dues.

 

And thank you, Jagcars, for proving my point, for calling me names without bothering to consider my context.

[Guest]

B4 pulls the donation card again IWSS, if you donate, then he'll pull the premium donator card...