rodan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 About two weeks I noticed an '09 G8 GT with 10k miles sitting on a local dealer's lot, so I went over to take a look. I really wasn't all that serious, but took it for a test drive and came away pretty impressed. We sat down to talk numbers, and they offered a great trade on the LGT, and great price on the G8, so we decided to pull the trigger. I thought I would post my impressions so far, since this is a car many LGT owners would find interesting... LGT - '05 5MT limited Stage 2 w/ conservative map, 249/284 on Harman Motive's dyno iON springs Tokico adjustable struts Cobb sways Bobcat pads and SS lines G8GT - '09 w/ sport package Stock (so far... ) The first thing you notice is the size difference. Although the G8 isn't a lot larger outside, it has a lot more interior space, and rear legroom. I'm much more comfortable up front, as my leg is no longer resting against the center console in normal driving. This was one of my dislikes about the LGT, especially for longer trips, where I would usually end up running the seat way back for highway droning. The LGT gets the edge in materials quality for the interior, but not by a lot. There's just some plastic in the G8 that isn't as nice, though I like the textured dash, which really works to prevent glare. The Pontiac's HVAC doesn't have the temperature porpoising that Subaru could never fix in the Legacy. For feature content, they are similar, both having heated power seats, dual zone AC, etc. The Pontiac has steering wheel audio controls, auto down on both front windows, MP3 and integrated satellite, which our LGT did not have, but later models do. The LGT's cruise controls were much more intuitive, but I'm getting used to the Aussie way. Both are missing memory driver's seat, something I'd really like to have. Fit and finish of the exterior is very similar, with the G8 being just that little bit more substantial feeling when closing doors, etc. Now, on to the driving... It's not all that fair to compare the aftermarket suspension/exhaust of the LGT to the stock G8, but it is nice to have a quiet, nice riding car again. The G8's suspension is about where the stock LGT suspension should be. Firm and controlled, but not flaccid. Here at 5000ft, the butt dyno says the G8 is every bit as quick as the stage 2 LGT, and definitely faster on top. Torque everywhere means not having to launch off stoplights to get a good run on traffic. While I was always impressed with the torque the LGT made, and how it was delivered, it's no V8, and the G8 is effortless around town. And it MOVES when the revs come up. I took the G8 down local 'racer road' this morning, and it definitely is not as sharp as the modified LGT. The LGT was about perfect, dead neutral, and slight oversteer on lift throttle, so it was easy to rotate. It was sharp on turn-in, and very little body roll. Of course, the penalty was a less than compliant ride over rough pavement. The G8 is very well controlled, and much better than the LGT was stock. When pushed, the girth begins to show, and the front end will push, but you can bring the back around with the throttle in the slower corners. Up to the point where passengers would start to get uncomfortable, it really is excellent. It's only in 8.5/10ths + where it starts to get a little flaccid. Brakes are great, with better feel than the stock LGT. Honestly, I've only run the LGT down this road twice in the last year, and I'm to the point where I'm ready to leave the suspension stock on the G8. Gas mileage is running around 19 with the G8 around town, we'll be taking a longer trip next week, so I'll get an idea of straight highway mileage. The LGT got 21 in similar driving, and it's still hard to keep the foot out of the torque with the G8, so 20 is probably in the cards with restrained driving... I'm going to the track on Saturday, so I can get a 1/4 mile baseline on the G8, after which it will get a CAI and reflash (good for ~30 hp according to the G8 boards). I'll post up after I get some numbers, and impressions of the reflash. I'm going to keep the stock mufflers, but intend to do the CAI, headers, and probably a 3.27 gear (stock is 2.90) on the G8, which should be good for solid 12's, while retaining excellent driveability, and a quiet, comfortable ride. Of course, the LGT retains the advantage for adverse weather, but over the five years we've had the LGT, there have only been about two days each year here where it snowed enough to be an issue. I have, however, never worn out a set of tires on the LGT (75k miles), as we always seem to get an unrepairable flat on one before they're worn out... I'll definitely miss the LGT, but the G8 fixes many of the things I didn't like, while giving up very little in return... http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Legacy/11-23-08-1.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/Legacy/11-23-08-5.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/DSC_3794.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/RodanAZ/DSC_3795.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Very interesting. I have almost bought one of those several times. The GXP is too expensive and too hard to find and doing a transmission swap on a GT seems like a bad idea - until the GT's go for under $20k Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 I also looked at the GXP, but like you, I think it's too much of a price difference for what you get, especially considering we got this car for ~$23k. I also don't like the two tone red/black interior every GXP I've seen has. FWIW, the auto 6sp isn't bad (though certainly not perfect), but from what I've been reading, a TCM tune really makes a big difference. I'll let you know next week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Nice, i was thinking about waiting until you can get them for the high teens in price with 20-40kmiles and picking one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtspecB Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Good write up. I loved the design of this car from day 1. Just some love lost with those tail lights and non-functioning hood scoop. Congrats!! my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Good write up. I loved the design of this car from day 1. Just some love lost with those tail lights and non-functioning hood scoop. Congrats!! I like the hood scoops, without them its jsut to plain. The holden version looks good without the hood scoops but it has more than just a different hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I also looked at the GXP, but like you, I think it's too much of a price difference for what you get, especially considering we got this car for ~$23k. I also don't like the two tone red/black interior every GXP I've seen has. FWIW, the auto 6sp isn't bad (though certainly not perfect), but from what I've been reading, a TCM tune really makes a big difference. I'll let you know next week... My best friend has a vararam (sp?) and livernois tuned GXP (he is an idiot and bought the A6 though). Anyways, it shifts hard as hell (2nd gear chirps at 5000ft) unless you use feather lite pushing of the throttle. When you get your tune I would ask if they can make it so firm shifts only come up when the throttle is wide-open. From a roll my e-tuned stage 2 legacy only keeps up with him until 75 then all I see is his worst asset, the rear lights on the g8 are the worst looking part of the car...an afterthought of styling almost... (that was a pre-tune ass kicking he gave me as well) and is one reason I am going to be swapping to a hta68 in the near future I can't wait until they drop below 20 and then my wife will have a car I desire/can stand to drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi365 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If I didn't live where it snows, and would have waited a year I'd probably be driving a G8 instead of my LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Anyways, it shifts hard as hell (2nd gear chirps at 5000ft) unless you use feather lite pushing of the throttle. When you get your tune I would ask if they can make it so firm shifts only come up when the throttle is wide-open. Did he have it in sport or manual mode? The trans programming gives harder shifts in the sport or manual mode than in the normal mode... I was about ready to start collecting parts for a turbo swap on the LGT, but there's just a lot more potential in this car. Unless you're auto-xing, or have to deal with lots of snow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I would still liek to see what a g8 gt with blizzaks would do in the snow. I was impressed with my buddies 02 stang gt last winter. We left for work at the same time and his mustang with blizzaks made it through some snow that my legacy had a little trouble with using all seasons, i made it through but it wasnt easy lol. I would have no doubts in my mind about getting this car if i knew it could do as good as my legacy with all seasons if the g8 had blizzaks on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernely Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The G8 was not available when I bought my Legacy or it would have been the car I picked up. Great looks, ridiculous aftermarket and a motor that is second to none! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrok Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Why would you pick a AWD sedan for Miami? Not trying to be a jerk but there are so many cars out their you could have picked from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz77 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I too almost traded the LGT in on a GT. Hard to beat the content/price ratio of the G8 GT. I agree with almost everything you said in comparing the two cars. When I drove the GT it felt great and faster than the Legacy. That flat, fat torque curve is butter. On my last outing to our local track there were two stock GTs, both running mid-14's at ~ 97-98mph at our 2,300 elevation. I really thought they would be quicker than that based on the power delivery I felt out of the car. Tuning does seem to wake the car up and a full exhaust (headers back) will go a long way. I think you will also be pleasantly surprised what the DOD will allow the car to do on the freeway mileage. Keep us updated on your path with this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Did he have it in sport or manual mode? The trans programming gives harder shifts in the sport or manual mode than in the normal mode... I was about ready to start collecting parts for a turbo swap on the LGT, but there's just a lot more potential in this car. Unless you're auto-xing, or have to deal with lots of snow... Does not matter as it was the new tune that created the really fast shifts (sport and manual mode will both do it). Stock shifts are the slowness...but also the smoothness When he bought it we test drove it back to back with a 335i. He hated the color on the 335i, but it was slightly used MY08 and would have been 11k cheaper than the gxp (a no brainer to just get the 335 with 10k on the odo and the BMW 100k warranty for me)....after driving both I am torn on what I would have taken if they were equally priced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrok Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Provo doesn't allow fast cars dude. It's against city ordinances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Provo doesn't allow fast cars dude. It's against city ordinances. I know, it is indirectly enforced through crappy ass roads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I almost bought the GT but couldn't get past the craptastic transmission. Ended up with the STI instead. My coworker sold his modded '04 STi to get a G8...had it about five months and hated the transmission (even with a reflash) and sold it. Anybody who says the transmission is livable should be driving a Buick. I'll second rao's comments about the GXP....rare and still commanding a high price. I've only seen one...on a flatbed headed to the local dealer. Checking prices, it seems $34k is the current street price but not sure how accurate that is. If the GXP was available at that price back in Nov, I would have bought it instead of the STI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 The trans is OK, except for manual mode (which sucks), and sport mode can be pretty weird in the curves. I'll let you know pretty soon how it works with a reflash. Took the car to the strip last night, and was a little disappointed with the numbers, though the air was horrible. Over 100deg, and density altitude in the high 4000s... G8 - 14.17@101.3 Last run in the LGT was in may with much better air and 20deg cooler temps - 13.74@99.79 The difference was all in the 60': 1.89 for the LGT and 2.16 for the G8. Of course, to get that in the LGT requires clutch mayhem, and we all know the eventual result, which is why the LGT rarely went to the track. The G8 I just stalled to 1200rpm, and away you go. So the LGT was quicker at stage 2 than the stock G8, but you had to launch it like you hate it to get there. Your grandmother could run the G8, however, and it was super consistent, with 8 passes varying by only .07 ET. It also has more mph on top, even with worse air, and I haven't started modding it yet.... should have a CAI and tune on this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shopper Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 At 100+ degrees that's not a bad time at all I thought they were low 14 second cars anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtang Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 is the g8 motor like the gto's ls2 motor?? ill tell you what... my stage 2 LGT would lose to a GTO from a roll here in colorado.... and would definitely beat me from a dig if my launch wasnt perfect.... even though it probably wont be by much, but im not certain because i have yet to race one at the track... but i have heard they run mid to high 13's here at 5800ft or so above sea level... i didnt see it myself so who knows if thats true or not... im sure you can break 13's with your G8 no problem... and ive heard that if you throw a bottle on those v8's that they just scream down the track not saying you should consider squeezin... but that can be a consideration in the future i just googled it and it looks like they are both 6.0 liter v8's but the g8 makes slightly less power... so im assuming its not the same motor.... im gonna guess that your g8 and LGT are probably gonna be really similar in 1/4 mile times if conditions are the same.... but if you were at sea level your g8 might take the gold.... good lookin car btw... both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 is the g8 motor like the gto's ls2 motor?? no, the GT didn't get the LSx. The GXP did. and the transmission is NOT ok if you've driven a competent auto before. It has more lag than a 2.0L WRX with GT40 on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 G8 has an L76, which is basically an LS3 with a different cam and "displacement on demand", a part throttle cylinder deactivation. A lot of guys are replacing the cam/lifters and getting pretty hefty numbers. Ok, OK, the trans sucks! FWIW, using correction factors for the two days in question (though I've never been a big fan of correction factors, they always seem optimistic, IMHO): LGT - 13.46@ 101 G8 - 13.43@ 107 This is a pretty accurate reflection of the SOTP feel between the two cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 G8 has an L76, which is basically an LS3 with a different cam and "displacement on demand", a part throttle cylinder deactivation. LS3 = 6.2L. L76 = 6.0L. If anything, it's an LS2 with DoD, not an LS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtang Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 thats what i was thinkin... seems pretty similar to the LS2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 Ok, maybe LS2... Still learning all this GM stuff. I was always a Ford guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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