05GT Guru Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I'm not trying to say that by any stretch. I'm simply saying, when you consider the bang for the buck, for starters and continuing, they're close, but I think the LGT is the better guy. except the 2010.. then the G8 is a hands down winner... I think its the better buy in snowy areas, but if i had the option and didnt live in a all season state between a 09 lgt and 09 g8 gt i would have to go with the g8 for a DD. Better mpg freeway and within 2mpg city would probably give me the same average as i get in my lgt as i do mostly freeway but some city on my commute. More power and def more potential (engine wise) in a bigger car. Hell i live in WI and im thinking of trading up to a g8 gt and getting some snow tires for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 well, the fact that it runs regular gives you a 30 cent/gal average benefit with the G8. Sticker cost is about the same now.. g8 is probably cheaper tbh.. with GM being govt owned and all that and being broke as a hobo with a million dollar credit limit on top of it. (not meant to insult GM, just sayin.. they have a lot of incentive to move cars.) I have to go by window sticker on vehicles for fuel econ.. and the LGT still has the edge at running premium over the G8 in fuel cost running "regalah." city. which is 99.99999999999999999% of my driving. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 well, the fact that it runs regular gives you a 30 cent/gal average benefit with the G8. Sticker cost is about the same now.. g8 is probably cheaper tbh.. with GM being govt owned and all that and being broke as a hobo with a million dollar credit limit on top of it. (not meant to insult GM, just sayin.. they have a lot of incentive to move cars.) I have to go by window sticker on vehicles for fuel econ.. and the LGT still has the edge at running premium over the G8 in fuel cost running "regalah." city. which is 99.99999999999999999% of my driving. I suppose but when you sacrafice the 2-3mpg city your gaining 120hp and even more trq in a bigger car. I would sacrafice 50miles to a tank to gain those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 well with gas under $3 a gallon so would I, but I still remember spending $55 a week on gas last year.. and then the shortage.. and having to rent a car and worrying at any price.. if I could even get to work. I feel like we're in store for more of that in the coming year(s). I guess I should say, gas prices ignored the G8 is clearly a better buy, but gas prices can often throw this kinda thing off. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz77 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Waiting to hear back on Rodan's real World mileage after break-in. Most G8 GT owners return better average mileage than my Legacy:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I average 19-21mpg per tank. Im sure i could get the same out of a g8 gt with the same mixed city/freeway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 OK, here's some cliff's notes, because some of the points I made early on have gotten lost in the noise... 1 - The G8 is much bigger inside than the LGT. 2 - Over the 5 years we had the LGT we had, on average, 2 days a year where snow was an issue. If we lived in the NE, that would probably have affected our decision, but we don't. 3 - The G8 stock is about as fast as a stage 2 LGT, and the potential is much higher - and you have to drive the shit out of the LGT to get the same result your grandmother can get in the G8. 4 - The G8 handles better stock than the LGT did stock, though the LGT probably has the ultimate edge with mods, due to the lighter weight and AWD. 5 - Mileage - I don't care what the EPA sticker says. I have gotten better mileage on just about everything I've ever owned. I don't use the mileage on the dash display, I calculate it from actual miles and gallons into the tank. Over 5 years the LGT averaged 21-22 city/ 25-26 hwy. The first tank on the G8 was 18.8 city. Everyone knows what your first tank is going to be like on a new performance car I do expect that it will be 1-2 mpg less city, and equal or 1-2 better hwy than the LGT. Worth it to me for the bigger car and more performance. 6 - New to new, price is about a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 well, either way I cant say you've made a bad decision. But I looked at it.. and it just wasn't worth it to me to go back into debt for something that would increase my cost of ownership. I always go by sticker when doing calculations. Even if my personal mileage shows better. Its the only way to compare apples to apples. I will only do theoreticals or averages after to compare and find at what point the graphs intersect. 9 times out of 10 the results for me to switch from this 4cyl japanese car to one of my beloved GM v8 cars/trucks that runs on regular has intersected at an unrealistic point.. basically, the engine would have to be specifically tuned for fuel econ and I could NEVER have fun in it, to avoid it costing me more. excel is your friend. what a great product.. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neelnug Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Review is spot on. I ran snow tires last winter... car was excellent in the snow. Was better then the LGT with the all seasons. Gas mileage is dependent on the driver.. DOD, a 2.92 rear end, 6 gears a large V8 make for some very good highway mileage. I averaged 27 mpg on my 40 mile round trip to philly last week. I see around 18 with my city driving. Turbo 4s are cool but there is really nothing that compares to a v8. The transmission is not as bad as everyone says. You can program the tq management to make the shifts as smooth or rough as you want. There is a handheld programmer like Cobb has that allows on the fly changes. The cars have totally different personalities. The G8 drives more expensive then it is but the interior will not impress anyone. I buy my cars for overall performance and comfort rather then how impressive the interior is. Stock its a 300whp car. With a little work and money its 350whp. With some real money (FI) 500+ whp is easy. The suspension is very good stock but you can really tweak it with some mods. Great value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Review is spot on. I ran snow tires last winter... car was excellent in the snow. Was better then the LGT with the all seasons. Gas mileage is dependent on the driver.. DOD, a 2.92 rear end, 6 gears a large V8 make for some very good highway mileage. I averaged 27 mpg on my 40 mile round trip to philly last week. I see around 18 with my city driving. Turbo 4s are cool but there is really nothing that compares to a v8. The transmission is not as bad as everyone says. You can program the tq management to make the shifts as smooth or rough as you want. There is a handheld programmer like Cobb has that allows on the fly changes. The cars have totally different personalities. The G8 drives more expensive then it is but the interior will not impress anyone. I buy my cars for overall performance and comfort rather then how impressive the interior is. Stock its a 300whp car. With a little work and money its 350whp. With some real money (FI) 500+ whp is easy. The suspension is very good stock but you can really tweak it with some mods. Great value. You dont need fi to make 500whp. I have driven a couple g8s the tranny didnt bother me too much. But then again i have only had the car for short periods of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 You dont need fi to make 500whp. I think 500whp is going to be beyond 'bolt-on' territory without FI, at least keeping any driveability.... 24mpg running 75-80mph for 360 miles today. A little lower than I expected, but I can certainly live with it. Much better car on the highway than the LGT. Lots more room, and really loafing at 2k rpm at 80mph... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neelnug Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think 500whp is going to be beyond 'bolt-on' territory without FI, at least keeping any driveability.... 24mpg running 75-80mph for 360 miles today. A little lower than I expected, but I can certainly live with it. Much better car on the highway than the LGT. Lots more room, and really loafing at 2k rpm at 80mph... Way beyond Bolt-on. Heavy duty Cam and a lot of new parts. Fine if you are building a purpose built car but not a daily driver. FI is a realistic way to get there without losing drive-ability. Supercharger takes you to upper 400s and twin turbos well into the 500s with stock internals etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Way beyond Bolt-on. Heavy duty Cam and a lot of new parts. Fine if you are building a purpose built car but not a daily driver. FI is a realistic way to get there without losing drive-ability. Supercharger takes you to upper 400s and twin turbos well into the 500s with stock internals etc. I made 430whp with a 346 ls1 with a port and polish of the stock heads and a very streetable cam. I lost no drivability and with 4.10 rear gears and 36# injectors still got 20+mpg freeway. I know guys with stage 3 heads and a simular cam to mine making 450-470whp still using the same 346ci bottom end. 500whp can stil lbe streetable and just as cheap as FI but you dont have to put boost on a high comp engine. Not sure how all this will effect your DOD, i know they have DOD cams but most people dont see the gains they would if they just scrapped dod. And most people said they only lost 2mpg freeway when they did scrap it. Guys with full bolt ons and very streetable cams are making 420whp+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 all motor is the way to go in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtang Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 all motor is the way to go in my opinion then y'd you get a FI car? IMO FI FTW.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz77 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 all motor is the way to go in my opinion ... says the guy driving the turbocharged Legacy :lol: Yeah, I agree totally. Who wants to retain the quiet civilized manner of the car when you could have something loud and lopey to draw some attention. Plus twins turbos are overrated. I mean come on, this barely breaks 550whp on pump gas on a car that retains most of its comfort and civility. Weak! http://www.airpowersystems.com/g8/ZR35AS.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 I made 430whp with a 346 ls1 with a port and polish of the stock heads and a very streetable cam. I lost no drivability and with 4.10 rear gears and 36# injectors still got 20+mpg freeway. Well, this isn't a Corvette or F-Body... it's a sedan, and quiet driveability is a primary concern, so bumpy cams and steep gears are not in the equation. My intention is go with headers (with high flow cats and stock mufflers), and a very mild cam, mostly to eliminate the DoD valvetrain components, which are a weak link. I'm also planning to put in the 3.27 gears out of the GXP (stock is 2.90). This should yield around 400 whp, without making any real sacrifices, and provide a good platform for FI down the road. APS is apparently defunct, so their TT kit is no longer an option. Magnacharger is my first choice at this point, but it'll be awhile before I get to that point, so some other options may surface by then... BTW, just returned from our trip. Car got a solid 24mpg at 80mph. City mileage in SoCal was 18, but we generally got 19 over there with the LGT. And the LGT wouldn't bark the tires into 3rd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz77 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 APS is apparently defunct, so their TT kit is no longer an option. Magnacharger is my first choice at this point, but it'll be awhile before I get to that point, so some other options may surface by then... House of Boost;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryandigi Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 then y'd you get a FI car? IMO FI FTW.... I am of course talking about an engine originally set-up to run NA...obviously I love my FI (I envy your set-up and would probably love it even more if I was putting down your power ). I have seen too many small blocks of my buddies go bye-bye with FI from supposed reputable tuners, plus all motor route will not add any significant weight to the front end of the car and who doesnt love the sound of a cam'd motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Well, this isn't a Corvette or F-Body... it's a sedan, and quiet driveability is a primary concern, so bumpy cams and steep gears are not in the equation. My intention is go with headers (with high flow cats and stock mufflers), and a very mild cam, mostly to eliminate the DoD valvetrain components, which are a weak link. I'm also planning to put in the 3.27 gears out of the GXP (stock is 2.90). This should yield around 400 whp, without making any real sacrifices, and provide a good platform for FI down the road. APS is apparently defunct, so their TT kit is no longer an option. Magnacharger is my first choice at this point, but it'll be awhile before I get to that point, so some other options may surface by then... BTW, just returned from our trip. Car got a solid 24mpg at 80mph. City mileage in SoCal was 18, but we generally got 19 over there with the LGT. And the LGT wouldn't bark the tires into 3rd... If you have a 400whp g8 gt and then put even 7psi on it and make 550whp thats really pushing the internals and it will not be as reliable as stock. Who cares if its not a f-body or corvette people build those to be streetable and sound like stock and still make good power. My idle sounded a little more choppy but it wasnt jumpy and it still drove just as good as stock. Any time you put boost on a high comp engine you better be logging it on a regular basis. I know plenty of people with vettes and f-bodys who put those 5-8psi bolt on kits on there cars and came up with holes in there pistons and bent/cracked rods. I would only go FI if the car had forged internals and a lowered comp ratio. But thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtang Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 imma rebel... i would try to turbo anything... LOL... but on a high compression car i would definitely drop it a little... to make it more boost friendly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 imma rebel... i would try to turbo anything... LOL... but on a high compression car i would definitely drop it a little... to make it more boost friendly... Dont get me wrong i like FI. I would love to have a twin turbo/ turbo/ supercharged lsx powered car. But like i said i would only do FI if i had the motor built for it. You can get damn near the same power with n/a as a small 5-7psi kit but not have to put boost on a engine that isnt made for it. And even more power if you wanna put a little juice on it since spray doesnt care what kinda of comp ratio you have and a 100 shot is very streetable and wont do any more damage than a FI setup. Alot of people dont like spray, not sure why its fun as hell, i ran it on my f-body for 30kmiles and it was still running amazing when i sold it. I made 430whp with a cam, port polish stock heads, intake manifold, header back exhaust, air intake. I did all that for under 4k, never got to dyno it with the 100 shot on it, i had it street tuned for that. But i would have been right around 550whp and 580wtrq going off of other dyno charts where cammed cars made 420-440whp and then a 100 shot on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtang Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 its because on the bottle the fun stops when the bottle runs out i agree though... the lsx engines seem to LOVE juice... if i had a lsx i would squeeze... but like i mentioned earlier... the fun ends when the bottle is empty... hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I still had fun when the bottle was empty and i had 430whp . My bottle always lasted me a while as i didnt spray against everyone who reved at me, most cars you run into on the street dont trap 118-123mph which is what i would trap without the bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 We all get it - NOS is the best thing ever Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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