qikslvr Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Those logs look much better that the others. It still had a knock or two, but only small minor ones. I still think we need to focus on your boost control. We should be able to get it back up to 17.5-18psi pretty quick while still keeping it knock free. We'll just start with a Cobb Stg2 map and then we'll make it run clean. After that, I can do what I do. It's really just a matter of getting the spool right and then we can find a boost level that your turbo likes and nail it down. Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Let me know when and I'll be all over this. Your actuator and boost controler should work wonders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Ooh, that does look a lot cleaner. Also, how's IAM/DAM doing? Staying at solid 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yes sir. Started at .05 when I first started her up, as I drove it kept climbing and now it is staying at a solid 1.0 I am much happier with this tune. The car may not pull as hard, but at least it's running a lot cleaner. This until I can get qikslvr to hook me up with a "bro tune" of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 We'll get together soon. Probably right after Thanksgiving. I'm getting the itch to put that 20G back on too... Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPjeep2002 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 fishbone, how does the 5EAT feel with the stage 2? I am heading to a dyno day this weekend to see what kind of number my LGT puts down on the Rallitek map I have, and then over the winter will be looking for a used DP and used TMIC for a spring 2010' stg2 tune. I have the IPT valve body in. What kind of numbers is yours putting down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 I don't have the first clue what numbers mine is putting down. Based on my experience running against cars that knew what were putting down, when I was running the PDX map I should have been somewhere around 245-250whp and around 270wtq. I may be overshooting it or underestimating it so I am always reluctant to talk numbers with no dyno runs to back it up. The ACN Cobb Stg 2 91 definitely feels not as strong but at least it's running safe and the car seems to be a lot happier. PDX map had DA locked in at 8 all the way up to redline and was tuned for 17PSI target boost, the Cobb map peaks at DA 6 and barely above 16PSI. What is your set-up? Let me know what numbers you end up with, I'm definitely curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPjeep2002 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I don't have the first clue what numbers mine is putting down. Based on my experience running against cars that knew what were putting down, when I was running the PDX map I should have been somewhere around 245-250whp and around 270wtq. I may be overshooting it or underestimating it so I am always reluctant to talk numbers with no dyno runs to back it up. The ACN Cobb Stg 2 91 definitely feels not as strong but at least it's running safe and the car seems to be a lot happier. PDX map had DA locked in at 8 all the way up to redline and was tuned for 17PSI target boost, the Cobb map peaks at DA 6 and barely above 16PSI. What is your set-up? Let me know what numbers you end up with, I'm definitely curious. Set up right now is Magnaflow CBE with Cobb AP running a map from Rallitek, peak PSI is 16 tapering to 13.5 at redline. Will be going to the dyno on Saturday for numbers. Spring time am getting either Perrin or AVO TMIC and a used downpipe(don't care about a specific brand, just whatever one I can find cheaper). Protune also and am hoping for in the range of 250-255hp and 250-270 tq. But will PM you my dyno graph after saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 245-250WHP on a 5EAT is kind of high isn't it? I was under the impression that a 5MT would see between 240-260 on stage2 upgrades, and a 5EAT would have higher drivetrain power loss, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 ^Like I said, I don't like throwing numbers around. It depends on which dyno, etc. It is very likely they are indeed high and optimistic. My reasoning comes from the fact that I have kept up and even narrowed the gap on cars that, per the owners, were around those numbers. Par example, how much does a Stage 2 supercharged Redline or Cobalt dyno? Use that as a point of reference for the fact that they were not able to catch up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Lots of factors can influence that because they're all different cars.... Gearing comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPjeep2002 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Captainhook(before his motor blew) got tuned at Precision on a dynojet, and he put down 247hp and 251 tq. I will be dynoing at PSI Performance( formally Ground Level Performance) in Lansdale PA on Saturday and they also have a dynojet, so we will see what a stg1 5EAT from Rallitek puts down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Got out there and pulled some logs. First thing first, I set the AP to globally retard timing by 3 degrees IIRC and I forgot to turn this feature off before I datalogged. I am not sure how this will skew the results. Did I log the right parameters? Also posted some AFR readings at idle. 171806 is a WOT pull 1-2-3 171924 is me in 4th gear, torque converter locked up, modulating the throttle because I could see that I could get the knock sum to increment. Draw a graph based on the throttle opening column and you'll see it wobble Speaking of knock sum increment, I would look away driving in traffic and all of a sudden, while NOT logging, I could see the knock sum incremented by a few Thoughts? I have some more logs, but they are mainly driving around, no high load, just going with traffic, such as the attached 170616romraiderlog_20091222_171924.csvromraiderlog_20091222_173355.csvromraiderlog_20091222_170616.csvromraiderlog_20091222_170731.csvromraiderlog_20091222_171806.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNVAR Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Stop doing WOT pulls until you figure this out. Maybe your knock sensor is just broken, or something's hitting against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Is that what it is starting to look like? False knock? Because it's on there and then it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Stop doing WOT pulls until you figure this out. Yes, you are constantly knocking. A broken sensor would only not report knock as well as throw a CEL. Also false knock for the mostpart is shown in loads less than 1. What you need to understand (fishbone) is even though your map was setup for 91oct it doesn't mean your car will run knock free with it, even if you run 93oct. This is all apart of the tuning process, some cars take to timing better than others. For instance I have a standard CA91 oct base I use fo road tuning, which has a horribly conservative timing map. In most cases I will add timing gradually while dialing in the fuel mixture. However a couple instances I have had to pull 3-4 additional degrees from the timing map which was already conservative. Note this was even on a stg 2 car running only 16 psi, but thatjust the way the cookie crumbles at times. Another example a buddy of mine was tuned by a pretty reptable shop out here in So Cal, I logged his car he was pulling up to 8 degrees timing at WOT. We stop by the local race gas station, added 5 gallons of 100oct to a low level fuel light. Got back on the road and it still was pulling 4 degrees. http://www.infamoustuning.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Do these logs not look worse than the PDX tune? The only reason I switched from the PDX tune to begin with was due to the IAM dropping from 1.0 and the fuel trims being off, but on the rich side, meaning safe side? If the PDX tune is running cleaner, I'm switching until qikslvr and I can get this thing dialed in. From the logs, the PDX tune pulls 1 degree of timing max above 5K rpm. Jarrad did say he took aggressive measures to get rid of knock and per the last logs and learning view I sent in, he said he did not see anything worrysome. Which I think would explain the fuel trimming being off the deep end. So the only reason I'm still blabbing here and pulling logs is because I want a solution in the meantime until Mark and I can get this bitch dialed in. I am not saying I want to tear out of the hole at every light, after all it is winter, but I am not happy with having to baby it and putz along either. I appreciate everyone's patience and willingness to impart their opinion and knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 PDX tune learning view http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2712977&postcount=64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 fishbone, just break down and get an Infamous1 e-tune. I sold my AP and got an e-tune from Infamous when I was in New York. Insane difference between the Cobb map and Infamous1. All my knock was gone, the car ran much smoother, and had at least 15whp more. Once I got to CA I had him e-tune the car for CAN91 fuel. Once again I was impressed. After swapping some parts and fixing a post turbo boost leak I finally got together with him for a road tune. Even the wife commented on how nice the car drives after the road tune. I can not recommend Infamous1 enough. My personal experience has been nothing but positive. Save yourself the headache and money. Sell the AP, you already have the cable you need, buy an e-tune from Infamous1 and use the left over money for more mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 I am trying to understand, above all right now, I think, we are looking at the same logs and at the same LV, Jarrad thinks it's fine while from what I've read linked by iNVAR was that I should not drive the car more than I am willing to walk Something had to have possibly happen in the meantime, I have a 3rd gear log when I ran the OTS Cobb stage 2 map from 2 years ago and that thing pulled 1 degree of knock if that, north of 5K. But this was during summer. Does winter gas get really that bad to make such a huge difference? Just let me know when you are sick of me and I will stop. I am known to be obsessive compulsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 He'll be getting a M.E. tune here shortly. We just need to find a time when the weather cooperates and we will get it done. It took all of 15 minutes to clean up Joeleodee's tune and another 15 to get it back up to the TDC Stg2 e-tune power levels. I'm here in person so I will be able to do a much better job tailoring the tune to our fuel and the way Fishbone drives;). I've looked at dozens of his logs and know exactly what needs to be done to correct it; we just haven't had dry streets for a while now, so WOT tuning runs are pretty much out of the question. He shouldn't even be out logging at this point either. Fish, you just need to STOP doing logging runs since we already know that the car is knocking like a mofo. Start driving like a grandma and we will get your tune adjusted ASAP(if you need aboost fix go drive the Mini!). We may even be able to do it next week if the snow stops falling and the sun comes out for a few minutes. It's just a matter of getting rid of the knock in the areas we talked about and then bringing the power back up. If I had a working copy of AT-R on one of my laptops I could just make the changes and send the map to you, but we keep forgetting to set it up when you are over here.  I just need to get on you computer that has the AT-R installed and copy that directory onto a memopry card and then I can just run it on my laptop from the memory card. That's what I do/did with ST and ST-A for Joel and I. Please just take a break for the Holidays and we will get it taken care of. If you keep doing logging runs; we may be doing more than just a tune to keep your car running right:cool:. Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeleodee Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 He's right, it was a pretty straightforward process and I even have a CAI he adjusted for. Now my car runs clean and I'm up to safe levels of boost without having to worry about blowing the endtanks on my stock IC. The e-tunes just haven't been very reliable lately here in this part of the country for whatever reason, so a road tune is pretty much the only way to go without having a dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 He's right, it was a pretty straightforward process and I even have a CAI he adjusted for. Now my car runs clean and I'm up to safe levels of boost without having to worry about blowing the endtanks on my stock IC. The e-tunes just haven't been very reliable lately here in this part of the country for whatever reason, so a road tune is pretty much the only way to go without having a dyno. Luckily I do remote tuning There is no difference from what I conduct over the web to what I do in-vehicle during a road tune. I always just wondered why this new approach wasn't taken long ago as the tools were always near by with open arms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 I think Fishbone just went back and forth with PDX for over a year trying to the tune he paid for to run clean and it never happened. It just seems like some of the Pro-Tuners that do e-tunes just don't want to finish the job. I was going to start working on a map for him using AT-R the week that it came out free for the APv2, but we forgot to set up AT-R on my computer and I don't have an APv2 to marry to the computer for the initial install, but if AT-R acts anything like ST and ST-A; then I can just copy his AT-R folder from his computer onto a memory card and put it in my computer and edit his maps. We are all located in the same end of the state, but in different cities about 45 minutes apart. I think schedules have had a lot to do with the process too. We've scheduled a few meetings, but something always gets in the way. I will make it a priority to get down there and just do it ASAP now that the Cobb maps are knocking like mad too. We just need to find his motors happy place for timing and the rest will fall into place pretty quick since he has a stock intake and injectors . Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Thats good to hear, a year is far too long. Sometimes you just have to take it as a loss and proceed on. Hopefully you guys get it all dialed in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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