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Stage 2 (cont'd)


fishbone

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I got your mesage, but won't be able to make the trip... I'll call ya back later.

 

As for the plugs; I put 1 step colder in when I/we put the 20g on and tuned for it. I didn't see any real differnce then. And now with the stock turbo back on for a minute; it appears to make no difference what so wver. My "allowable" timing curve is identical to that of the stock plugs and maybe even a half to a full degree less. Go figure:confused:.

Let's kick this pig!
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  • 1 month later...

What the hell? Did Mr Knock find his way back into my tune again? :mad::spin:

I logged Seconds instead of Intake Temperature somehow ...

These logs were taken in 94*F, intake temp was above 105*F

Log 9 is 1-2-3 to redline

 

I'm looking solely at dynamic advance which should be pegged at 8 all across, am I correct?

datalog6.csv

datalog7.csv

datalog8.csv

datalog9.csv

datalog10.csv

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  • 5 weeks later...

Fish, a couple of those logs looked fairly good actually, but there are a couple with some knock too. Most of the knock in the first 2 or 3 logs is "shift knock" and we all get it even in the 5MT's. The last two had a little in gear knock, but that looks like it at points where you are overshooting boost targets and the ECU is pulling some WGDC to drop boost back within the requested range. I'm a little concerned about the long term fuel trims as they are basically pegged to the negative. This means that you are running pig rich throughout the WOT pulls.

We really need to get together in the near future and do some logs with RR and maybe even let me pull the ROM off your car so I can look at it. Joeleodee got a copy of StreetTuner and we installed it a few weeks back, so we need to do some tuning on his ride too. I'll be putting the 20g back on shortly too, so I can give you the ride you didn't get the first time it was on. Joel is pretty busy at work, but I should be able to run down there anytime during the day or I should be able to talk the wife into visiting her G-ma/G-pa some evening when you and I could get together. I'll be in touch and we'll figure out a time when we can hook up.

 

Try getting a couple more logs now that it has cooled off a little and we'll se what she has to say.

Let's kick this pig!
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Thanks for reviewing qikslvr. I think that I uncovered a case of user error. When Jarrad sent me the last revised map, he had me flash it realtime instead of a base reflash. My AP mainboard has failed (to the tune of $250) and had to send it in to Cobb for fixing. When it came back, the AP was still married but it was not aware of which maps were loaded onto the vehicle. About a month before this, I had a CEL due to the missing sensor in the UP and finally took the time to shove the resistor in there. Upon clearing the CEL, I also cleared the ECU and, you guessed it, took away my revised realtime map. So upon reflashing the BASE, I did some runs and I can't get the DA to NOT stay rock solid at 8, no matter the gear, no matter the revs. The only thing I'm not sure of is it dipping in negative numbers when not under load or when lifting off. I'm guessing it's normal. I've seen as much as over -4.

I'll do some more datalogging sometime soon and see how she runs.

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I know and I agree, especially because I've had the thing sent in a total of 5 times now, I think. It was the first time out of warranty work and to be honest I wasn't expecting to have to pay for it, for some silly reason I thought the AP had lifetime warranty on it :D Next time it fails, I'm going opensource.
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  • 5 weeks later...

This question has been nagging me lately and I know that I should just f/u with PDX but I can't right this very moment.

Would there be a reason why he would not be able to bump up the target boost from 17.1 to 18? With the Perrin TMIC, I'd probably actually push over 19PSI of boost. Is that not safe?

Mod list:

Perrin TMIC

Autospeed catless UP

Gutted shorty DP with one cat left, all stock exhaust

So I am basically on the stock exhaust except for the UP, with one cat left to avoid smell issues. What goes hand in hand with raising boost from a tuning perspective? We had to stay on the conservative side as far as timing/advance goes due to some knock issues.

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Looking for a little help.

2007 LGT-Auto

Stock Turbo

Headers

Cat-less up & DP & full exhaust

COBB AccessPort running stage 2 map

I have the pro-tune software that allows me to create or edit any map.

I have 21 passes with the stage 2 map (logged) for review.

I messed with the COBB map by making small increases & decreases to any areas COBB changed versus the stock map. Loaded and seems to make more power and kick in at a lower RPM. I also raised the redline 400rpms to allows the headers to perform.

The Stage 2 map from COBB is built for 93octane with stock intake, cattedDP and Cat-back. I am running a cat-less system with headers.

Does anyone have a map they would care to share or suggestions on what to adjust to get out more power from the COBB stage 2 map?

Thanks

Chris

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^It's quite an involved process. I'd suggest opening a separate thread

 

+1 this is Fishbone specific thread. Sorry:redface:.

 

I think he just wants to stay on the conservative side with your tune since it went way off the deep end early on. There really isn't a reason not to if she's finally running clean and consistent. You have always boosted at least 1psi over target boost(and sometimes more). Also the VF40 starts pushing a lot more heat above 18.5psi. There is only so much you can get out of that stock turbo.

In order to increase boost at this point in the tune you would pretty much just need to increase the target boost and the WGDC just a little to up the boost. You would then check for new knock and back timing down where needed if there were any.

I also don't think there is much benefit to pushing this turbo that hard. Even on my setup with the Header/UP, TMIC, Intake, Inlet, BCS, Full 3" Exhaust and all the other parts; I won't push it any furhter than 18.5psi without my Meth kit installed. We just need to get together so I can use your AT-R to tune that beast and finally get it done right;).

Let's kick this pig!
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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

If you have romraider, you should be using that to log, not your AP. And log these:

 

Engine Load (2-byte)** (g/rev)

Engine Speed (rpm)

IAM (4-byte)* (multiplier)

Ignition Total Timing (degrees)

Knock Sum* (count)

Manifold Relative Pressure (4-byte)* (psi relative)

Mass Airflow (g/s)

Mass Airflow Sensor Voltage (V)

Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)

Throttle Opening Angle (%)

 

Some of these are "extended" parameters and they will not show up on the log list unless RR is connected to your car, so connect it first and THEN choose the parameters.

 

And I personally like to log these, too, but have been told it's unnecessary and wastes bandwidth.

Knock Correction Advance (degrees)

Intake Air Temperature (F)

 

You can also log these but again, the more parameters you log, the logger the interval between each row.

Feedback Knock Correction

Fine Learning Knock Correction

 

Based on the logs you did though, I'm positive you're getting knock. I'll pullup the DA table in a sec and show you what it's supposed to look like.

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i'd take it REALLY easy on the car. based on the table here's what i can see.

 

you're pulling a crapload of timing starting from 4000 RPM. compare it to the figures in the table. you're actually seeing negative numbers in 5600+ range in some of your logs.

 

your LV isn't going to be that useful from what i understand because (and i think you yourself noted this) the cobb maps have FLKC DISABLED at loads above 2.2. your ECU will NEVER learn to retard the timing at those loads and RPM ranges meaning your car is going to rely on FBKC and... i think ROUGH correction (by reducing your IAM/DAM)

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I'm wondering if I should have stuck with the PDX map for now and just taken it easy.

Should I just flash to the Cobb ACN Stage 2 91 map for now? Seems that it's designed for crappy 91 which is the case for Nebraska too it seems. It's a more conservative tune.

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After looking at the logs and the learning view that you sent me it is starting to look like there is just no hope in getting that tune to run clean. You and I just need to get together for a couple hours soon and I'll get your timing issues resolved and build you a clean map.

I've started over so many times in the last two years; it only takes a few minutes to get things started with AT-R. After a few logging runs we'll nail the timing down and then see what she'll give us for power. We did Joeleodee's with ST in a matter of minutes and now I can make changes with ST-A and e-mail them to him. We would just need to migrate a copy of AT-R onto one of my computers so I could remotely edit the maps if need be.

 

Your IAM/DAM should climb to 1.00 and stay there if the car is running well at all. You've seen my map collection. Not one of them EVER drops the IAM.

Let's kick this pig!
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Mark I agree, there's been so many changes to the map I have been running all this time that I just don't see how it can be ironed out. When I switched to the Cobb OTS I was surprised to note that the difference was not THAT big and the Cobb map was actually smoother.

 

I loaded up the ACN version of Cobb OTS Stage 2 91, it's supposed to be set-up for crappy 91-octane in Arizona, California and Nevada. Take a look at these logs.

Also included a screenshot of the DA table for this map.

datalog1.csv

datalog2.csv

datalog3.csv

datalog4.csv

1138783989_DATable.jpg.0647c9f65f1643a51d40cae652a94169.jpg

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