Intake silencer removal walk-through

[ArcTec34]

others have my opinion, who have some knowledge of tuning, airflow, or some brains. but then there are people like you who lack my background and somehow psychologically can convince themselves that removing the resonator increases MPG..

[thestratomaster]

others have my opinion, who have some knowledge of tuning, airflow, or some brains. but then there are people like you who lack my background and somehow psychologically can convince themselves that removing the resonator increases MPG..

 

Lack your background? What is your background? And some brains? I guess you don't have to be smart to be a mechanical engineer anymore? I'll have to try something harder then. Again, you weren't in my car, driving my car, or anywhere around my car. The computer said I was getting better mileage

[Laverne]

Can I ask, since we are all not as smart as the next guy. Wheres the difference when you add a K&N( or name your own product line) CAI vs the removal of the silencer.

Aside from needing a tune for the aftermarket CAI( and from some research I have done this particular mod itself)

I ask as If you can add a CAI w/o a tune( as seen in some other posts) why couldnt you do this w.o negative results?

[thestratomaster]

Can I ask, since we are all not as smart as the next guy. Wheres the difference when you add a K&N( or name your own product line) CAI vs the removal of the silencer.

Aside from needing a tune for the aftermarket CAI( and from some research I have done this particular mod itself)

I ask as If you can add a CAI w/o a tune( as seen in some other posts) why couldnt you do this w.o negative results?

 

exactly!

[ArcTec34]

agreed, adding an aftermarket CAI without a proper tune doesn't do much of anything, and overall probably hurts. Ask ANY tuner, an intake is something that requires tuning.

 

Can I ask, since we are all not as smart as the next guy. Wheres the difference when you add a K&N( or name your own product line) CAI vs the removal of the silencer.

Aside from needing a tune for the aftermarket CAI( and from some research I have done this particular mod itself)

I ask as If you can add a CAI w/o a tune( as seen in some other posts) why couldnt you do this w.o negative results?

[ArcTec34]

Lack your background? What is your background? And some brains? I guess you don't have to be smart to be a mechanical engineer anymore? I'll have to try something harder then. Again, you weren't in my car, driving my car, or anywhere around my car. The computer said I was getting better mileage

really, you drove the same exact trip, same stoplights, same traffic, same everything??

[thestratomaster]

really, you drove the same exact trip, same stoplights, same traffic, same everything??

 

yeah buddy. It's called the thru way

[thestratomaster]

agreed, adding an aftermarket CAI without a proper tune doesn't do much of anything, and overall probably hurts. Ask ANY tuner, an intake is something that requires tuning.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcTec34 http://legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/buttons/viewpost.gif

yeah, must have been. Because after years of solidworks modeling, using GOOGLE (really, just google "intake resonator" and read any of the first 10 hits about what the intake resonator does BESIDES reduce noise), etc. The car is tuned to have it, and therefore removing it without somehow reprogramming the ECU is only worse, and therefore can't possibly be improving your mpg.

solidworks CFD even proves my point, after having to test airflows for formula SAE cars, and realizing how a airflow sensor has to recognize the different levels of air and how it is circulated. Do you use solidworks CFD? Do you understand an engine's tune?

 

And really removing that isn't any worse than adding a CAI if you think about it.[/color]

 

Glad we're on the same page about something

[Laverne]

I looked at the other posts that Arctec34 had posted, now Im not trying to bash anyone here. However as in these posts he/she never really added anything to the discussion that was reputable. Just that he/she didnt have time for CAD, etc...

It was also stated that Artec34 wasnt sure that when they did the mod that there were any negative effects from it, just that they decided to return to stock..

Just curious why you are hostile against everyone else's opinions when you yourself haven't really clarified anything..

[thestratomaster]

I looked at the other posts that Arctec34 had posted, now Im not trying to bash anyone here. However as in these posts he/she never really added anything to the discussion that was reputable. Just that he/she didnt have time for CAD, etc...

It was also stated that Artec34 wasnt sure that when they did the mod that there were any negative effects from it, just that they decided to return to stock..

Just curious why you are hostile against everyone else's opinions when you yourself haven't really clarified anything..

 

boom roasted

[Polo08816]

If you plug the hole, the sound pretty much goes away. The deep roaring tone comes from air being drawn in through that hole.

 

I don't get why people think they can tell it runs the same and doesn't lose any power. Do you all think you can feel a 5-10hp loss? Considering that's 2-4% of the rated hp, I have my doubts.

 

I've done substantial logging with it on and off, and my car is considerably happier with it on. My IATs are consistently lower, and my af learning ranges are all much closer to 0.

 

I can't really feel a difference, but it's clearly visible with constant data logging. I do prefer that deep roar myself, but not at the cost of having a warmer air intake or seeing my af learning (especially in the D range) drift over -6%

 

So far, this post appears as the only post in this thread that doesn't have a bunch of guesswork incorporation.

[Polo08816]

Lack your background? What is your background? And some brains? I guess you don't have to be smart to be a mechanical engineer anymore? I'll have to try something harder then. Again, you weren't in my car, driving my car, or anywhere around my car. The computer said I was getting better mileage

 

Possibly, but until we can replicate the same exact conditions in a laboratory setting, we will never know what accounted for that 1MPG difference.

 

1MPG out of 30MPG is just too small to see if it is significant at all.

[thestratomaster]

Possibly, but until we can replicate the same exact conditions in a laboratory setting, we will never know what accounted for that 1MPG difference.

 

1MPG out of 30MPG is just too small to see if it is significant at all.

 

I agree with both posts. I was just going off what my computer said. Conditions were very very similar. My drive wasn't that long so I don't feel a bit of a change in wind or anything would've shifted the fuel economy by much at all. Also my car doesn't idle rough like a lot of people said. I was never saying the car is waaaay better with it off. Just sharing what I noticed. Arctec felt he needed to brag about his self proclaimed knowledge for reasons I'm unsure of. I feel it should make it run worse though because it should add turbulence in the airbox. I mean if there is another place where it's taking in air that isn't where it's designed to come in from it should disrupt the air flow of the factory designed air collector. At least that's what I've come up with....

[mindovermattre]

If anyone is curious what the resonator is really for, look up a Helmholtz resonator, it does affect the airflow. However, to what extent, and to what affects it will have on our engine, well only the Subaru team would probably know that. In my opinion it makes the airflow more turbulent, and therefore harder for the MAF sensor to read, making the ecu have to constantly adjust, probably affecting the mpg like some of you are stating. In addition, that bassy tone you guys may be hearing at low rpms, is the airbox/intake resonating with the pressure pulsations of the engine, which agrees with the findings one of the tuners had, provided in a link earlier in the thread.

[thestratomaster]

^^^ I agree

[B-BGTLimited]

Well since I like to see things for myself I tried this and wanted to see what would happen. I really didn't think it would affect anything in a negative way but I was wrong.

 

After a few weeks of learning I had a -7.9 in my learning D table. After clearing the ECM it started to come back again, so not a fluke. I put the resonator back on at the beginning of the week, and after a few drives to and from work I'm at a -.10 in the D area... The rest are all positive. I also currently have NO learned knock correction where I slowly would gain some before.

 

I hate to say it but it does something odd to the airflow. If you want it to be loud and hear the BPV then go ahead and get an aftermarket air intake and be sure to tune for it, but with what the resonator removal does to the flow of the stock intake it probably makes it really hard to adjust for removing that...and to be quite honest the sound difference isn't that much.

[thestratomaster]

^^ I agree with you. I drive a 2.5i and can't be fast, but I can sound fast with this out

[B-BGTLimited]

I would also think on a 2.5i this may not be as risky as with a boosted application. And who knows with the lessened sucking force of the n/a motor you may not screw up the MAF reading as much. I haven't seen this tested on a 2.5i yet.

[thestratomaster]

^^So far very good. Probably loss in low end torque but that was to be expected honestly. I did notice today after leaving my car idling for about 10 minutes while i was on the phone it started to idle a bit rough. Quick blip of the throttle though and it was fine.

[dr_sharp]

yeah, must have been. Because after years of solidworks modeling, using GOOGLE (really, just google "intake resonator" and read any of the first 10 hits about what the intake resonator does BESIDES reduce noise), etc. The car is tuned to have it, and therefore removing it without somehow reprogramming the ECU is only worse, and therefore can't possibly be improving your mpg.

solidworks CFD even proves my point, after having to test airflows for formula SAE cars, and realizing how a airflow sensor has to recognize the different levels of air and how it is circulated. Do you use solidworks CFD? Do you understand an engine's tune?

 

In the world of engineering, solidworks CFD is the walmart of modeling fluid flow. People that use solidworks CFD are the people who don't actually understand the governing equations behind fluid dynamics and don't have time to be bothered by them. Nobody with a real engineering background uses solidworks for CFD work. They use CFX, Fluent, or write their own code to use on a cluster. Hell, you'd probably have better luck using Matlab or Comsol than using solidworks. Sure you could use solidworks to make pretty pictures depicting flowfields and pressure/temperature gradients, but nobody designing anything of value uses solidworks CFD. Don't get me wrong, solidworks is an excellent tool, but it is not a tool to solve cfd problems. It is a 3D CAD tool that has some convenient FEA code attached to it for those that don't want to use a separate FEA program.

 

Although I don't think anyone will actually argue with your point that removing the silencer will change the airflow around the intake, your arrogance makes you the ass of this thread.

[dudeondacouch]

http://www.aww-kittah-aww.com/up/files/3425/this-thread.jpg

[thestratomaster]

In the world of engineering, solidworks CFD is the walmart of modeling fluid flow. People that use solidworks CFD are the people who don't actually understand the governing equations behind fluid dynamics and don't have time to be bothered by them. Nobody with a real engineering background uses solidworks for CFD work. They use CFX, Fluent, or write their own code to use on a cluster. Hell, you'd probably have better luck using Matlab or Comsol than using solidworks. Sure you could use solidworks to make pretty pictures depicting flowfields and pressure/temperature gradients, but nobody designing anything of value uses solidworks CFD. Don't get me wrong, solidworks is an excellent tool, but it is not a tool to solve cfd problems. It is a 3D CAD tool that has some convenient FEA code attached to it for those that don't want to use a separate FEA program.

 

Although I don't think anyone will actually argue with your point that removing the silencer will change the airflow around the intake, your arrogance makes you the ass of this thread.

 

hahahah....Thank you!

[Stick8373]

Is this thread still trying to figure out who's is bigger?? Geez guys, give it a freakin' rest ... if you like stick with it. If KNOW it's making your car better, GREAT. If you KNOW it doesn't make a difference, AWESOME! Find something else to do with your time ... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!

[thestratomaster]

^^ you're just as guilty for posting that

[Stick8373]

^^ Not so much ... this is for a walk through of how to do it, not about how it works.