can some body try this.

[ClimberDHexMods]

btw, the shift key is over rated, but grammar and spelling is nice sometimes...

 

indeed mainstream shorthand typing has connoted the exclusion of uppercase letters and punctuation for at least 6 years now

but dont tell my father lol

[ehsnils]

Anyway - on the topic - if you pull the ABS fuse - will you disable the VDC system too?

 

And I agree - ABS is not always a blessing, it can be a curse too. As does VDC.

 

But as long as you are cruising along on the highway both won't disturb you much. They are certainly useful when you come to areas with black ice - the kind of ice on the road that you can't see.

[frank_ster]

yes why i want the disable switch ! normally abs working .. and when the car won't stop i switch it off.. pretty damm simple !

[emilbus]

the ABS is too damn sensitive. It starts pulsing in the snow way too easily, seemingly before the tires can even get a chance to lock-up.

I seriously can't even stop in any kind of emergency and It's more dangerous than not having ABS.

 

Does anyone else have a 4th gen. with ABS acting like this in the snow???

BTW, I am a 2007 N/A

[Guest LGT-NY]

I'm here for the buttsecks...

[emilbus]

I'm here for the buttsecks...

 

 

 

??? Gaye!

 

 

Any help from anyone....?

[tailgatewagon]

so i gave this a go on y 05gt...

 

im a montana native been driving in snow for 18 years or so... anyway had mostly subarus...

 

 

so to compare my 05 gt wagon to my last car a 94 svx lsi with nokain winter tires.

 

the gt is on summer tires. it stops very poorly. if i hit boost in any gear it will brake loose. also breaking is very poor when the abs kicks in. so i droped the abs by pooling the fuse here are my driving impressions...

 

on ice. if you lock them up it takes a little longer then with abs on.(this is black ice)

on snow pack with white ice. breaking is much better (if you know how to break) the car stops much quicker....

 

in deep snow its much much better. deep snow was just as bad as black ice for stopping distance, now the tires skid and dig in it stops lots better....This test was done today with 10in of fresh snow on the freeway from about 75mph to stop....

 

unexpected results from taking abs off....

before it was very hard to induce over steer with braking. i could still rotate the car with lift off oversteer but not with braking oversteer now the car without abs is very easy to cause oversteer from breaking. the proportioning valve must not be ballenced like non abs cars because now the car steps out under max breaking on slick stuff...

 

conclusion. for most people abs is probably best left alone. if your like me i like to control the car and its attitude and am farely confortable with driving sideways at speed. so for me i like it without abs but i wouldnt let my wife drive it this way...... so to each his own. don't die being stupid..............

[burnout8488]

I agree. My car stops faster with the ABS disabled. MUCH faster. I stop faster feathering the brake to avoid lockup than locking up the tires and having ABS kick in. It just keeps rolling with no braking force at all.

 

It's simple science. There is more friction when the tires lock up. (Sliding Friction)

 

Of course, this gives you less control, but in a situation where spinning out is not an issue, no-ABS provides faster stopping distances.

[someguy]

"if i hit boost in any gear it will brake loose. also breaking is very poor when the abs kicks in."

 

So if you need to stop in snow, you ought to hit boost? Because you'll brake loose? In any case, I'll make sure I use ABS - after all, its the only situation in which breaking is poor - my car couldn't take any more breaking as it is. (Sorry, couldn't help myself)

 

Also:

 

Static friction is when your tires DON'T lock up - aka there is no sliding. DOH!

[emilbus]

so i gave this a go on y 05gt...

 

im a montana native been driving in snow for 18 years or so... anyway had mostly subarus...

 

 

so to compare my 05 gt wagon to my last car a 94 svx lsi with nokain winter tires.

 

the gt is on summer tires. it stops very poorly. if i hit boost in any gear it will brake loose. also breaking is very poor when the abs kicks in. so i droped the abs by pooling the fuse here are my driving impressions...

 

on ice. if you lock them up it takes a little longer then with abs on.(this is black ice)

on snow pack with white ice. breaking is much better (if you know how to break) the car stops much quicker....

 

in deep snow its much much better. deep snow was just as bad as black ice for stopping distance, now the tires skid and dig in it stops lots better....This test was done today with 10in of fresh snow on the freeway from about 75mph to stop....

 

unexpected results from taking abs off....

before it was very hard to induce over steer with braking. i could still rotate the car with lift off oversteer but not with braking oversteer now the car without abs is very easy to cause oversteer from breaking. the proportioning valve must not be ballenced like non abs cars because now the car steps out under max breaking on slick stuff...

 

conclusion. for most people abs is probably best left alone. if your like me i like to control the car and its attitude and am farely confortable with driving sideways at speed. so for me i like it without abs but i wouldnt let my wife drive it this way...... so to each his own. don't die being stupid..............

 

 

 

Thank You & BURNOUT for your input.

I too am comfortable with a vehicle being sideways and like to believe that I have car control.

I think I'll try it w/o the ABS because it's nearly impossible to get the car to stop in the snow when applying medium to heavy brake pressure.

 

I'll check on the way home from work tonight, but it doesn't even seem that the tires are sliding at all; it just keeps pulsing and barely slowing down.

 

I felt that the car does have some oversteer while braking in the snow (ABS on) so I'll do a comparison with it off as well.

 

I owned the snow for years in a 2wd drive S-10 (obviously no ABS) and had no problem and I was completely comfortable.

 

 

Thanks again for you input and testing!!!

[ClimberDHexMods]

"if i hit boost in any gear it will brake loose. also breaking is very poor when the abs kicks in."

 

So if you need to stop in snow, you ought to hit boost? Because you'll brake loose? In any case, I'll make sure I use ABS - after all, its the only situation in which breaking is poor - my car couldn't take any more breaking as it is. (Sorry, couldn't help myself)

 

Also:

 

Static friction is when your tires DON'T lock up - aka there is no sliding. DOH!

 

You've taught us idiots so much with only 7 posts, imagine how educated we will all be by the time you hit 14

 

Of course you next post will be "Obviously post count doesn't mean you know anything". You would be half correct.

[ehsnils]

the ABS is too damn sensitive. It starts pulsing in the snow way too easily, seemingly before the tires can even get a chance to lock-up.

I seriously can't even stop in any kind of emergency and It's more dangerous than not having ABS.

 

Does anyone else have a 4th gen. with ABS acting like this in the snow???

BTW, I am a 2007 N/A

 

There are one factor here to consider. The normal reaction for a driver is to ease off when the ABS starts working due to pedal vibrations. But the appropriate reaction with ABS is to just nail it as hard as you can to provide enough power to all wheels.

 

But there is another important factor to consider - and that is to make sure that the brakes are in good condition anyway since if one brake is a lot more efficient than the others then it will be processed a lot earlier than the other brakes that are weak which also gives a longer stopping distance.

 

Also realize that the front and rear brakes are dimensioned for some type of "average" brake balance that doesn't take the surface into account, but they are usually dimensioned for summer conditions which means that the majority of the brake force is placed on the front axle. In winter conditions this means that the front wheels locks up a lot earlier. In summer conditions a brake balance of 85/15 for front/rear may be nice, but in winter conditions a balance of 60/40 would be better. So that means that if the ABS starts to work and you ease off you will still not have reached the optimal braking. On the other hand if you have a 60/40 in the summer the rear brakes will lock up a lot earlier and you run the risk of some "interesting" braking behavior where the rear end goes wild.

 

And then - braking in snow may of course be more efficient with locked wheels since they will then "plow" the snow instead. But the stupid ABS doesn't know that.

[burnout8488]

Also:

 

Static friction is when your tires DON'T lock up - aka there is no sliding. DOH!

 

F**K. I meant sliding friction. When the tires skid. *sulk*

 

edited.

 

And then - braking in snow may of course be more efficient with locked wheels since they will then "plow" the snow instead. But the stupid ABS doesn't know that.

 

It sucks, because my friend's Audi A4 on all-seaons stopped much better on the same surface last night. I rode in his car, then got in mine. The ABS pulsates, but it eliminates so much lockup that "braking" hardly occurs! In his car, it would pulsate, but the car would come to a smooth stop. Seemed like there was "less" of the anti-lock effect happening, which was wonderful.

[fishbone]

ABS is ABS is ABS. The system essentially pulsates as much as it needs to in order to prevent wheel lock-up. So in the case of your friend's A4, if the ABS didn't pulsate as much, that tells me the surface wasn't as slippery.

[DriverX]

If you actuate the ABS in snow, you are driving too fast for the conditions. I can count the number of times that ABS has actuated during snowy condition on one hand. Slow the F down and you won't have any problems with longer stopping distances with ABS.

[ClimberDHexMods]

The Audi traction control system is not a fair comparison to Subaru ABS. It is years ahead. It is integrated into a lot of things. Just turning it off going down the highway and turning slightly is noticeably different. It is not apples to oranges. It is apples to Peruvian watermelon. My Subaru does not perfectly and evenly apply braking pressure, individual wheel power, or any other fun things. It just releases the brakes when a wheel starts to slide. Turning off Audi traction control computer will put your butt in a ditch fast.

[emilbus]

Agreed with BURNOUT again; the ABS pulses soo much under medium braking pressure in the snow that the tires don't lock up to even barely slow you down. Little-to-NO braking occurs.

Obviously speed is a factor and I don't speed up right up to stop signs but in any emergency situation, stopping would not happen and pose a serious threat to all involved!

 

Hands-down, the ABS on my car (i can't speak for anyone else) is too sensitive. It's not the only vehicle I've driven in the snow with ABS, btw.

[tailgatewagon]

If you actuate the ABS in snow, you are driving too fast for the conditions. I can count the number of times that ABS has actuated during snowy condition on one hand. Slow the F down and you won't have any problems with longer stopping distances with ABS.

 

um BULL POO.. so if a car cuts you off and you activate abs then how is that your fault for driving to fast. i dont activate abs most of the time in normal driving but when things go BAD( deer on the road, stupid drivers. semi loseing control when im passing it.) etc. then i want my brakes to be as effective as posible. i guess i should drive 5mph all the time in the winter so the abs dos not kick on........

[frank_ster]

hey guys calmdown ..

 

for the friction guys .. static meaing no sliding .. is higher ... think of any two surfaces looking like a landscape or moutain ranges. in static the mountain ranges fall and fit together, thus in a sence locking together. kenitic fricition when skiding or doing a burn out in this case the tips just kind of bounce of eachother.

 

in a perfect world abs would work in a analog mannor.. where the tire never pulsates locks and spins .. It would just apply brakes on the threshold of breaking loose. but this technology as far as i know doesn't exist other than what a skilled driver would normally do.

 

I am quite sure the legacy does not have a brake proportioning valve, and the 70-30 split ( or what ever it actually is) is mearly done by the size of the caliper pistons.

So the person who brought up the fact that the braking proportions do change on slippery conditions, well yes they do! and they also change how much junk you got in your trunk! This problem is very obvious in the case of a pickup truck, with the box unloded it won't take very much to lock up the back tires on ice or snow. Toyota used a lever mechanism to reduce the rear brakes affect depending on load and weight transfer. chevrolet and ford pickup trucks of the early 90's had only rear wheel abs making a world of diffrence very good thing.

 

IMHO The disabling switch is the best thing if your in a case where your car is not stoping and you know if you could just lock up the tires everything would be fine you could just hit the button when needed.

 

On my drag car camaro i have a "brake proportioning valve" well more of a piston and spring that reduces pressure (in my case the rear wheels) it has a knob that you simply turn and it adjusts the balance. very good for you autox guys where some guys want the front wheels to lock preventing oversteer or rear wheels to lock to cause oversteer.

[Stang70Fastback]

um BULL POO.. so if a car cuts you off and you activate abs then how is that your fault for driving to fast. i dont activate abs most of the time in normal driving but when things go BAD( deer on the road, stupid drivers. semi loseing control when im passing it.) etc. then i want my brakes to be as effective as posible. i guess i should drive 5mph all the time in the winter so the abs dos not kick on........

 

Sorry dude, but I agree with DriverX on this one. When I'm driving in snow, I frequently slam on the brakes when nobody is behind me to test the road surface and know how much grip I have. The reason I do that is so that I know where the limits are, and as a result I NEVER deal with the ABS in the snow. Anyone who has trouble with the ABS on a regular basis in the winter and considers it a serious problem or trouble point is not driving correctly. You should know how much grip you have, and you should be able to brake without entering the "ABS zone." There is no such thing, unless the ABS system in a particular car is defective, of the ABS activating BEFORE a wheel slips. I generally have a good feel for how much grip the road surface has, and I know how much brake pressure I can apply without locking the wheels. In essence, I'm doing threshold braking but not QUITE reaching the limit, which is how you SHOULD be driving in snow to begin with. There's no such thing as being a good driver, and pumping the brakes in the snow. I get the impression some people on here think "that's the way any really good driver would do it", but it's not. In the real world, with other cars around you, you shouldn't be crossing that threshold at all. Ever.

 

And I don't buy the whole "someone cutting you off" argument because, first off, the way that argument was used makes it sound like it happens to you every 5 minutes. If you're at all a good defensive driver, it shouldn't happen to you very much at all, if ever. I leave PLENTY of space in the winter, and I can anticipate someone "cutting me off" long enough before it happens that I can gently slow down a bit. Even if someone really DOES completely cut you off in a way that is likely to lead to a collision, 9 times out of 10 it makes much more sense to go around them (as in the winter, I make a point of avoiding having cars directly next to me whenever possible) rather than applying your skilled threshold braking to stop in time, because odds are if you do that, you'll just be rear-ended by the ABS-equipped car behind you anyway.

 

I think the best option is a red button on the steering wheel. So that in that 1/10 situation where you decide you just want to STOP, you can press that button to disable the ABS for 10 seconds.

[The B4]

Sorry dude, but I agree with DriverX on this one. When I'm driving in snow, I frequently slam on the brakes when nobody is behind me to test the road surface and know how much grip I have. The reason I do that is so that I know where the limits are, and as a result I NEVER deal with the ABS in the snow. Anyone who has trouble with the ABS on a regular basis in the winter and considers it a serious problem or trouble point is not driving correctly. You should know how much grip you have, and you should be able to brake without entering the "ABS zone." There is no such thing, unless the ABS system in a particular car is defective, of the ABS activating BEFORE a wheel slips. I generally have a good feel for how much grip the road surface has, and I know how much brake pressure I can apply without locking the wheels. In essence, I'm doing threshold braking but not QUITE reaching the limit, which is how you SHOULD be driving in snow to begin with. There's no such thing as being a good driver, and pumping the brakes in the snow. I get the impression some people on here think "that's the way any really good driver would do it", but it's not. In the real world, with other cars around you, you shouldn't be crossing that threshold at all. Ever.

 

And I don't buy the whole "someone cutting you off" argument because, first off, the way that argument was used makes it sound like it happens to you every 5 minutes. If you're at all a good defensive driver, it shouldn't happen to you very much at all, if ever. I leave PLENTY of space in the winter, and I can anticipate someone "cutting me off" long enough before it happens that I can gently slow down a bit. Even if someone really DOES completely cut you off in a way that is likely to lead to a collision, 9 times out of 10 it makes much more sense to go around them (as in the winter, I make a point of avoiding having cars directly next to me whenever possible) rather than applying your skilled threshold braking to stop in time, because odds are if you do that, you'll just be rear-ended by the ABS-equipped car behind you anyway.

 

I think the best option is a red button on the steering wheel. So that in that 1/10 situation where you decide you just want to STOP, you can press that button to disable the ABS for 10 seconds.

 

 

I did get cut off by a motherfreaking CRV last year in my STI in the crazy snow we had. I was PISSED. carry on though.

[frank_ster]

guys guys ...

 

Yes the abs should never thechnically need to work.. but if you have the " all seasons" tires on or summer tires on in locations that rarely get snow.

 

if you have all seasons or summer tires and you have ice or snow it take virtually no pedal pressure to have the system begin to try to correct. In this case you should not be driving your beautiful subaru! because chances of getting it smashed are stupid high. But never the less if your driving your car to the point of the abs never wanting to kick in you are driving safely, Problem being is peoples ego's including mine where the limits of driving are being pushed.

 

It takes my whole concentration after coming back from germany and the Autobahnn of driving 120mph in fog pouring rain, and lately ice and snow, to drive from Des Moines to newton only going 74 even though I saw about 35 cars trucks and 18 wheelers in the ditch. Its hard to tuck your scrotum back, and follow the "rules"

 

p.s. Forgot to mention i had the hand brake on half the trip just to make things a little more exciting

[snow05gtRI]

p.s. Forgot to mention i had the hand brake on half the trip just to make things a little more exciting

 

but your center diff!

 

i've been crawling down a hill in the snow and tap the brake and the ABS will engage. it's not all about speed.

 

i would really like to do this ABS on/off switch. at least to experiment in a safe place with no ABS snow driving first to see if the car handles like i would expect it to. then just to have it when it's snowing...

[ehsnils]

There are various types of proportioning valves. Manual, fixed and those that are varying depending on the compression of the rear suspension.

 

In any case they are giving a rough adjustment of the brake force anyway. The ABS is a dynamic adjustment system.

 

And usually the proportioning valves exists on cars with disc brakes front and drum brakes rear due to different characteristics of the two systems.

 

Discs all around are usually balanced through varying piston sizes, but they may have a dynamic proportion valve.

 

Below is an example - the arm is linked to the rear end suspension.

http://www.bedug.com/pics/car_rustproof.jpg

 

Anyway - all those help systems like ABS are there as a support, they aren't some kind of "God Mode" that helps you in every kind of situation but a compromise to allow you as a driver to do wrong and still be able to resolve the situation.

[BoozeRS05]

Not a fan of the LGT's ABS in poor conditions either, too sensitive. I often brake check to test conditions and it seems I could stop faster without the ABS in many cases. I did this last night in my buddy's 3.2l A6 auto and there was no ABS, the car just stopped (impressive car in the snow).