Stang70Fastback Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I see it the other way, ABS shouldn't be so shitty that locking your wheels stops you faster. I thought the point of ABS was to make you stop as fast as possible. I agree. The ideal ABS system would be one that did "threshold braking" for you, keeping all the vehicle's tires right on the edge of their allowable grip and stopping you in as short a distance as possible. Now I understand that ABS prioritizes turning over stopping. blah, blah, blah. But in a straight line, it has no reason to take longer than locking your wheels.This is just a wild guess, but I'm willing to bet that creating an ABS system that allows you to lock the wheels in a straight line (which is an interesting idea) is probably very complicated to do. When you lock your wheels, your car will start to yaw - period. That's just how things happen. A good driver can add some opposite lock and for all intents and purposes, keep the car pointed relatively straight with all 4 tires skidding. The trouble is that as soon as you get just a bit sideways, the vehicle's yaw sensors will detect a skid, and in order to correct this, will fool with the brakes at all 4 corners to straighten the vehicle. So in reality, unless you were to disable the stability control or VDC or whatever your car might have, you're still going to end up with a car that applies and releases the brakes. Short of having the car programmed to only step in when the driver goes "OH SHIT," I don't see how you can completely eliminate ABS from the equation even just in a straight line. Maybe the best solution is to offer a setting for ABS that allows the driver complete command of the brakes up to a 15 degree yaw angle. That gives the driver room to do his stuff, but if the car goes beyond 15 degrees (indicating either loss of control, or that the driver IS trying to swerve around something) then the ABS kicks in and helps guide the car around the obstacle. Time to call S.O.A., lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 any ways i have been studying the wireing diagrams and i will put a relay on the gound for the pump pin 16 on the abscm this will not let the pump run ..but maintain the comunication and vss for the car.. basically being the equvilant to pulling hte fuse on an older car .. as for driving to fast.. i'm used to driving my 1990 sunbird and 90 cavalier with no abs the sunbird is 450 hp and i have been driving for years no accidents not taking the ditch the roads here are often 3" of snow coverd slush if you lock up the wheels they dig down to the pavement and the car stops .. the abs keeps the wheels on top of the snow thus dubbling the stoping distance. and most of my playing around is on lakes snow moble trails feilds not on the street. it makes me hate the car so one way or another the abs is comming out. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryouske Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I didn't have ABS in one of my cars, and I hated it. I felt so unsafe since it was my first vehicle. Disabling it is deff. not worth it. I may suck that your far away but if you wanna find out about it just wait and do it yourself. Hope you don't kill yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatvol Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 You have a Sunbird with 450 HP? That my friend I would take a trip up to Canada to see! What you put a 350 in there or something? And I would need to say that Chevy makes the worst ABS system out there. In Specific the ones on the trucks. When I lived in Alaska I had both a brand new 3/4 ton Silverado and a Blazer. The system was way to sensitive. As stated above, maybe you should do this to your own car man. Let us know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pdizzleccc Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I pulled my ABS fuse the last storm we had here, the way I see it is that if it is slippery enough to want to pull the fuse i'm not going to use the criuse. That's all it disabled in my 08 gt, I didn't notice anything else that it kicked off, I don't have anything else tho (VDC or auto tranny). Just for the record the people on here are talking about being able to take the tires to the limit, and being able to adjust brake/steering acordingly to keep all four tires turning, and hopefully all of us that are doing that have alot of evperience driving non abs cars. For the average Joe abs IS going to stop your car much faster than one without, but if you have experience with vehicles w/o abs it's almost guarenteed that you will be able to get your car stopped quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 ABS fuse comes out. ABS be gone. At least this is the case with a 98 ABS is one of those things made for people who can't drive like traction control, i see no problem with disabling it. And if you disagree, that's your own problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 You have a Sunbird with 450 HP? That my friend I would take a trip up to Canada to see! What you put a 350 in there or something? And I would need to say that Chevy makes the worst ABS system out there. In Specific the ones on the trucks. When I lived in Alaska I had both a brand new 3/4 ton Silverado and a Blazer. The system was way to sensitive. As stated above, maybe you should do this to your own car man. Let us know what happens. the sunbird is 3.8 L grand national wannabe 7 spd with a holset turbo from a 98 dodge with a cummins. running 19 lbs of boost on 91 oct . [ame=http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=fXC1o45vqjs&feature=channel_page]YouTube - sunbird 3.8 turbo in car to 120 mph[/ame] Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 ^^ Holy shit, that thing is a beast!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 and actually my sunbird on street tires has a better 60' than my legacy boost launching.. Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmarko Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 ^^ Holy shit, that thing is a beast!! It's still a sunbird though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Fan Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 ok never mind .. you guys are jsut a bunch of tools .. Whow!!!!....you are bored and you want other people to experiment on their cars for your enjoyment....and we are a bunch of TOOLS:lol: Time to get a life moron:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korpsepatrol Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 ok never mind .. you guys are jsut a bunch of tools .. 2008 6mt Legacy Gt Spec B DGM - Not so Stock/Work in progress 2006 5mt Legacy Gt OBP - Sold 2005 5eat Legacy Gt OBP - RIP R.I.P Coxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_ster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 It's still a sunbird though. yep and good .. i didn't even have to take the abs off of it .. cuz it didn't come with one and a lot of you guys are tools .. you guys rely on changing grades of oil to help proformance ! Now that's thinking out of the boxer! fyi all 05 + legacy's have built in code reader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-lo Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 you really like the word "tool" don't you;) 258k miles - Stock engine/minor suspension upgrades/original shocks/rear struts replaced at 222k/4 passenger side wheel bearings/3 clutches/1 radiator/3 turbos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatvol Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Damn dude! Right on with that sunbird! Freakin fast car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 For the life of me, I cannot see why ABS results in longer stopping distances unless it reacts too SLOWLY. In normal (non skid) driving the applicable coefficient of friction is the STATIC one. Once the tire starts slipping, the LOWER dynamic coefficient of friction kicks in. Just like when one pushes an object from rest, it is tough to get it moving, but once it starts sliding it is a lot easier. The trick is to always keep the RELATIVE motion zero. The ABS does it by letting the locked wheel rotate again until that happens. Same thing as when you ease up on the brake pedal in a non-ABS car to regain grip. Ideally the system would ease up just BEFORE slipping, then the higher static coefficient of friction would always be applicable. That is why I could see that if the ABS was too slow, you might be in dynamic range longer than you would want before the braking force on the skidding wheel was eased. Then if the system was slow in reapplying braking force, it would be wasting time while the rolling wheel was back in the static range. Curious on how ABS systems vary between manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LGT-NY Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 ok never mind .. you guys are jsut a bunch of tools .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 For the life of me, I cannot see why ABS results in longer stopping distances unless it reacts too SLOWLY. In normal (non skid) driving the applicable coefficient of friction is the STATIC one. Once the tire starts slipping, the LOWER dynamic coefficient of friction kicks in. Just like when one pushes an object from rest, it is tough to get it moving, but once it starts sliding it is a lot easier. The trick is to always keep the RELATIVE motion zero. The ABS does it by letting the locked wheel rotate again until that happens. Same thing as when you ease up on the brake pedal in a non-ABS car to regain grip. Ideally the system would ease up just BEFORE slipping, then the higher static coefficient of friction would always be applicable. That is why I could see that if the ABS was too slow, you might be in dynamic range longer than you would want before the braking force on the skidding wheel was eased. Then if the system was slow in reapplying braking force, it would be wasting time while the rolling wheel was back in the static range. Curious on how ABS systems vary between manufacturers. I think what you've "conjectured" basically sums up the problem with ABS. If it isn't fast enough, there will be periods where the car isn't braking at all, and periods where the tires will be skidding. So alternating between two crappy ways to slow down results in a longer stopping distance. I would also guess that a system could be devised that would significantly reduce this problem, but I'm willing to bet that it would be costly. The current system works well enough already when it comes to decreasing accidents, so automakers probably have more important things on their agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoopMan Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I think what you've "conjectured" basically sums up the problem with ABS. If it isn't fast enough, there will be periods where the car isn't braking at all, and periods where the tires will be skidding. So alternating between two crappy ways to slow down results in a longer stopping distance. I would also guess that a system could be devised that would significantly reduce this problem, but I'm willing to bet that it would be costly. The current system works well enough already when it comes to decreasing accidents, so automakers probably have more important things on their agenda. I think also the pulsing 'on/off' nature of ABS is different than what one can do with modulating the brake pedal pressure on a non ABS car. I conjecture (again) that ABS does not really modulate, it is more like all or nothing happening several times a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 i dont like ABS myself, but the original poster is still a toolbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I think also the pulsing 'on/off' nature of ABS is different than what one can do with modulating the brake pedal pressure on a non ABS car. I conjecture (again) that ABS does not really modulate, it is more like all or nothing happening several times a second. Exactly. It would be nice if the car could modulate brake pressure, but that would be a much more complicated system. So I guess they figure a simple on/off mechanism accomplishes 90% of the goal of ABS, without all the complicated... stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 This thread sucked less when we did it a couple years ago. Someone here set up a switch to turn it on and off at will, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madjik_Man Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 what do you do for work that you'd be 3000 miles away on an install? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madjik_Man Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 i dont like ABS myself, but the original poster is still a toolbag qft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Holy crap. A bunch of uneducated folks when it comes to cars, the lot of you. I feel sorry for the OP since he asked a reasonable question, asked if anyone was willing to try it, and was attacked for the possibility of damaging other people's cars. Umm, if you aren't capable of unplugging a switch and reattaching it later, then you have NO BUSINESS working on your own car and you can simply ignore the thread since you obviously aren't capable of the experiment. If I were about 500 miles closer to my car, I would be willing to give it a shot. Sorry, OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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