mwiener2 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Total equivalent length for most cars will be about 30-35ft. An effective core HAS to be more restrictive than that or the air isn't in it long enough to transfer any heat My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 It's a dynamic variable based on flow (your turbo). I count an aggregate 10 90* elbows on FMIC piping. So if you actually flow a decent amount of air then you're looking at a bigger net pressure loss in an equivalent straight pipe length. Any error there? As for the core restriction, yes, achieved on FMIC cores by using the 'parallel' end tank opening configuration, as well as a long core. It's funny, any IC company can claim very low pressure drop at high boost just by using a stock turbo, but can run a high flow turbo at that same pressure, and the pressure loss ends up much greater. It's not just about boost, it's largely about flow. That's my point. You can run a VF40 or an FP Red at the same amount of boost (just to illustrate the point) and the Red would have significant pressure loss while the VF40 would have very little. Conversely, if you run either turbo through a TMIC big enough to handle a big turbo, and efficient enough to cool the charge, then neither has any pressure loss worth writing home about. My biggest gray area is end tank configuration. Parrallel has the aforementioned benefit, which alternating helps mitigate. Some IC designers say alternating is the only way to go. I haven't gotten deep enough yet to quantitavely weigh the two options. If anyone somehow does know, that would save a lot of time. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 Saw this over on NASIOC. PM'd him, he said it was good, but didn't have any numbers to quantify it. Will try to get some details. Thought it was a nice little setup: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1788198 As for my setup, I'm still a work in progress, as I decided to take a stage 3, custom gauge cubby panel, and sound deadening detour. I'll post up my air water setup once it's done. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfaber Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Interestingly there is no solid numbers there, just guestimations on lag reduction. Winning the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Interestingly there is no solid numbers there, just guestimations on lag reduction. Yup, didn't really get anything from that one. Oh well. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfaber Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 So, If the whole point here is to achieve more boost I see this as being a good way to go, but if you're trying to reduce turbo lag and make big power I would think something like N2O on demand style system would work better. Whether you blow up your engine or not I would think this depends on how much you're using and how well your car is tuned. http://www.nitrous.info/nitrous-with-turbos.htm makes a great point about using it only pre-boost stage with a pressure switch to turn on and off the flow as needed. I can see this totally eliminating a lot of the lag. However good safe systems are probably not cheap. Winning the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If you get a decent aftermarket ECU you can get; anti-lag, flat foot shifting, launch control, intercooler spray control, nitrous control, and much more.. all part of the ecu My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hey - is this thing done yet? We are all waiting to be shown the magic Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hey - is this thing done yet? We are all waiting to be shown the magic It'll be done when it's finished. You guys should have mentioned getting a house with a yard is a full time job by itself Off to Lowes. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 So it's not done yet? Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtang Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 it looks like what my friend has on his race civic.... i see alot of high horsepower honda's with the water cooled setup.... getting rid of the front mount intercooler all together.... ill see if i can sneak a pic next time im at his shop.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz77 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 it looks like what my friend has on his race civic.... i see alot of high horsepower honda's with the water cooled setup.... getting rid of the front mount intercooler all together.... ill see if i can sneak a pic next time im at his shop.... Water cooling works well for drag racing. You can get air intake temps below ambient and your 10 second pass isn't enough time to saturate the cooling medium with heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Water cooling works well for drag racing. You can get air intake temps below ambient and your 10 second pass isn't enough time to saturate the cooling medium with heat. I can probably go back through this thread and find this exact statement a dozen times. No insult intended. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 Fun drag car turbo/water intercooler for sale if anyone wants it http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1898764 Interesting way to fit it. And no I'm not done. Having fun doing other things with the car. [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_luv Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Nice build and loved the read, A buddy has one on his SC Accord V6 very clean set up. Mr.350 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk mk8 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 this is a setup from my sisters car it is a Garret 750hp air to water dual pass core. it has been on the car since around 05/06. the turbo is a gt3076R with custom long equal length header. the car spooled pretty fast and made more power through the auto then other cars at the shop with a stick shift and air to air intercooler. the car ran great and even in the summer heat hot lapping the car the data logs show air temps about 4 to 5 degrees above ambient air temp. we ran a 3 gallon water tank in the trunk and large heat exchanger in the front. after alot of hard miles the pump died do to the crappy coolant we used. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/Danrotolante/subaru/intercooler.jpg http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/Danrotolante/subaruengine2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Your sister is not like most sisters, is she. Very cool setup. Is that a GM AIT sensor on the cold side end tank? [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk mk8 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 no she is not a normal girl, from the day she got the car she started collecting parts for it. as it sits now it has a 2.5 bottom end with corrilo rods, JE coated pistion, CNC ported heads with stage 2 cosworth cams and full Ferrara valve train. it has been sitting till she can afford a tranny rebuild, she needs new clutches and billet parts. yes it is a GM AIT sensor, it is wired in to the AEM EMS for logging air temps. on the dyno one bag of ice lowered air temps to 30 degrees below ambient at wot. this lasted three runs in the span of a hour. it is miami so air temps are usally 90 degrees or so. i am in the process of trying to get a spec b, on my short list of parts is a Garret 1000hp core and twin scroll bw turbo. also when we went to subaru fest in gainsville for autocross in 06 there was a legacy there with a spearco air to water intercooler. it was a very cool setup the guy had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCP2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 ....my sisters... Pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk mk8 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/Danrotolante/pri.jpg this was in Orlando at the PRI show (performance racing industries trade show) yes she is the only one i could get to ride up with me. she goes every year with me normally. she is on the left and i am on the right. the two in the middle are my friends Hong and Marry his wife. he build custom race turbo for a living. i went with him to meet with the heads of borwarner and garret and well as turbonetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMLegacy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 BUMP damnit, what ever happened to this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimberDHexMods Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Posting the answer to your PM here in case it's useful to others. Greetings, So here's the cliff notes on your proposed AWIC setup: Don't, unless you absolutely cannot run a FMIC or do not want to, or spend a lot of time going between stop-and-go traffic and then WOT and require the best possible throttle response. Think of an intercooler as a heat sink, or a capacitor. The AWIC is different than an AAIC in that it heats up (and cools back down) very slowly. This means a more stable air temperature into the intake manifold, instead of the peaks and valleys that you normally get (of which most people are not acutely aware because there is no post-turbo air temp sensor (from the factory). An FMIC is most efficient, period. It does have a hint of throttle delay though. Then, a TMIC is going to be pretty efficient still (UNLESS YOU MEET THE ABOVE CRITERIUM). If neither meets your needs based on how you drive and how you want the car to drive, then it's AWIC. I recommend not making your own intercooler and heat exchanger. Off the shelf ones are fine, and cheap, and you will have plenty of customization headaches just mounting everything. Buy the biggest ones you can reasonably fit. Trust me on that. The weight gain is negligible. Maybe 25lbs more. If you haven't already moved your battery to your trunk, then it's already pretty clear how important things like weight and weight distribution are to you. You're going to be best off resisting the popular craze of pretty, shiny, under the hood. You are going to want to wrap/cover your AWIC with as much insulation as possible, which means an insulating blanket or wrap. This is because the turbo is sitting a good 6 inches from where the AWIC would go, and you don't want it heat soaking. Other down sides. If you park the car and go back to drive it while it's still hot, expect the engine bay to be HOT, meaning you will still have some heat soak. The rule here is to drive casually and with low throttle inputs (no boost) until it cools off (maybe 5 minutes). There are many good ways to wire up the water pump's electric switch / control. That is a big discussion on its own, so best to just get the setup running before you go messing with the fine details. Hope that helps. As with most LGT mods, it's about bolstering your platform to allow the turbo to run most efficiently, not necessarily making more power with each mod. In this case, you're buying stability of intake manifold air temperature. Best, ClimberD Was reading your thread about building and AWIC Now, i might sound crazy, but i was thinking of acquiring another LGT intercooler, welding an aluminum jacket over it with inlet at the top left and out let at the bottom right (or vice versa) and have a used radiator as the heat exhanger...or get one of them AWIC radiators, and a water pump. How crazy does that sound? Also, what do you think would the improvements would be over stock? [CENTER][B][I] Front Limited Slip Racing Differentials for the 5EAT now available for $1895 shipped, please inquire for details! [/I][/B][/CENTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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