cryo Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Last night: 20F after work. Cranked for 10 seconds, no start. Cranked for another 10 seconds, stumbled, did not start. Cranked a third time and stumbled to a start. So... E58 season is definitely here! I added 2.5 gallons 91oct and filled up the tank with E85...resulting in the ~58% blend. Made a point to drive with very slow steady throttle and very slowly climbing rpms in 3rd and 4th to set up AFR D. E58 isn't as good as E85, but it beats 91oct any day. It also beats bringing a couple hundred feet of extension cords for a block heater while my car is at work. Tonight will be around 10F after work... expecting an easy start with my winter blend. I just converted to e85 and have read this whole thread. Did you make any changes to your map this year or just put in the mix and drive enough to set up afr d and LTFT before getting on it? I'm trying to figure out my plan for the winter. Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 I just converted to e85 and have read this whole thread. Did you make any changes to your map this year or just put in the mix and drive enough to set up afr d and LTFT before getting on it? I'm trying to figure out my plan for the winter. Dave Yep, that's all I'm doing. I think there are a lot of ways to overthink the cold starting issue, but I've come to the realization that simple blending does the trick safely. I guess it is supposed to be -2F tonight after work. Wow.. I'll definitely be putting the blend to the test in a couple hours! My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryo Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm interested to hear the results. If it starts in -2 i'm sure we are good at just about what ever colorado will through at us... Dave [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Providing unmatched customer service and a Premium level of Dyno/E-tuning to the Community cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com facebook.com/cryotuneperformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm interested to hear the results. If it starts in -2 i'm sure we are good at just about what ever colorado will through at us... Well that night it wasn't -2F after work, but rather 12F and with the "E58" blend it started somewhat readily. After cranking/stumbling for 10 seconds it did not start. Then immediately upon next cranking it fired right up. Tonight was a different story. 4F and the car had been outside for 9 hours. It really, really did not want to start. My battery isn't super strong, which doesn't help. Through 4 sets of 10-second cranking episodes the car would only stumble at best. The battery weakened and cranking slowed down. It just about died. The car then stumbled, sputtered, and started. So, after 2 years of doing this, I can further delineate what is possible and what is not with a summer tune running E85 in the winter: - If over 25F, starting with pure E85 is just fine. - If between 10F-25F, starting with "E58" is just fine. - If between 0F-10F, you are risking leaving your vehicle stranded. - If less than 0F, you made a big mistake leaving your E85 vehicle outside. The vehicle will not start. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05lgt5spd Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I quit the E85 a month ago. I work on jobsites and don't feel like cranking my car over and over. Maybe I can get a generator and a block heater and let it run all day! Oh and its 18F here right now! I have my winter siped/studs on, so I only run 15lbs anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 I quit the E85 a month ago. I work on jobsites and don't feel like cranking my car over and over. Maybe I can get a generator and a block heater and let it run all day! Oh and its 18F here right now! I have my winter siped/studs on, so I only run 15lbs anyways If the LGT were my only car or if it didn't have a garage to sit in overnight, I would be forced to do the same. There really isn't another choice, besides a block heater, and then you'd need to have A/C access and cords both at home and at work. Not practical. Too bad.. I really love the stuff. I'll still roll with it this winter, but it might mean taking my big lifted Wrangler out on some mountain trips when I'd rather have the capability, safety, and power of the LGT. Oh well. Still a small sacrifice to make for the other 95% of winter days where the LGT on E85 will be what I'm driving. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05lgt5spd Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I love it too! I take occasional trips 2-6 hours away, last minute type of thing, I don't want to be swayed whether I can or not due to the distance between E85 stations. I have a 68 fj40 landcruiser, but with a drafty top, no power steering/brakes.....I'll take my heated seats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I keep 100ft of power cord on a spool in my car. Not a big deal at all. I'm actually thinking of mounting it in the spare tire area and having the cord come out the bumper and be self-retracting My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.E.A.T. Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 So is it safe to say that the E58 blend works in cold temps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 So is it safe to say that the E58 blend works in cold temps? Sure, as long as your tune (fueling, injectors, MAF scaling) is good. Cold starts down to around 10F.. probably a few degress less but that would be risky. Going WOT, even immediately after blending, is no problem. The one time you need to take extra caution is after you've had a blended tank and then top off with pure E85. You should not go WOT until after a while of highway cruising because your fuel trims will still be negative from the blend. You could run dangerously lean. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTspecB1657615261 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 bumping this thread just to say that E85% is at E75% still in Ohio. I am about to start running it again. Since not many people run E85, I wonder how long it takes to purge out the winter blend. Oh well, I will just wait for my trims to stabilize. I am a little worried since I added an AWIC over the winter and I am not sure how that might affect my trims. On 93 octane I am within 3-4% on my trims after installing the AWIC. (I did not change the MAF scaling after I installed the new IC, figured I did not have to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 *bump Has anyone come up with any other good ways to help with cold starts? I've recently switched to 1 step colder plugs & e85, and it's taking quite a few more cranks to start in 40 degree weather. Does spark plug gap have anything to do with starting capabilities? I just installed my NGK's with the gap that they came with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 larger gap is better for starting, but not good for performance My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshire40 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 i think i am only going to run e85 summer blend when it is warm out. no worries on different fuel blends and cold starting. my plan is winter = 93oct summer = e85 or 93oct when not available low temps here for next 3 days are 4-7deg F! Mod list & photos _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 For some reason this morning, my car wouldn't start when I was parked on a slight incline (like 2-3 degree incline, 40 degree weather). When I released my e-brake and let it roll 5 ft so it's more level, it started up fine... This is with a lil less than 1/4 tank left of e85. Is that a fuel pressure thing? I did hear an electrical whine from the rear of the cabin when I come to a stop at a light a couple times. After some googling, I saw an Audi thread that said it was their fuel pump that failed. I'm wondering if my o-ring seal isn't tight, even tho everything worked fine during the road tuning process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.B Dream Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 ...The one time you need to take extra caution is after you've had a blended tank and then top off with pure E85. You should not go WOT until after a while of highway cruising because your fuel trims will still be negative from the blend. You could run dangerously lean. Any reason you wouldn't just do a Learning View ECU reset when you change your blend, or is this caution for the "just in case" if you forget the reset? I'll be switching to E85 (probably E70) this month, so I'm starting to pay attention to this thread now. Are there any updates to cold starting tips? Was it ever decided if more or less fuel while cranking helped with starting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTspecB1657615261 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hey e85 guys... would anyone be interested in buying my glass graduated cylinders to measure local ethanol content? Figured I would just post it in here rather than creating a whole new FS thread for such a small item. They are glass with glass pennyhead stoppers. One 100mL and on 50mL. Lab grade stuff. Its one way to get a few good stares at the gas station! I would ship them to your door for $15. I measured content locally just to track when they enter winter blend, and how long it takes to get out of winter blend. I was interested in how my fuel trims moved around based on %E. If you have a good tune, the trims can adjust between seasons, but I wanted to "qualify" my local stations before buying gas from them... just to make sure it was not 50% or something ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'd be interested to know which of my local stations had the best blend. can you pm me more info on how that thing works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'd be interested to know which of my local stations had the best blend. can you pm me more info on how that thing works? I'm interested in this as well "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Fill to certain level with e85, add water until it reaches another certain level. Shake then let sit. It will separate into ethanol and gas. By measuring the levels and then doing some simple math you can figure out the percentage My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'd be interested to know which of my local stations had the best blend. http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTspecB1657615261 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Test: http://iqlearningsystems.com/ethanol/downloads/E85test.pdf I used the 50mL cylinder to get more accurate measurements, pouring out into the 100mL cylinder. Towards the end I just used the 100mL cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Did you find much variance in the blend? "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTspecB1657615261 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 They were the same between two stations I tested. All in all, I was satisfied with what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 To recap where I'm at on this issue after now 3 winters on E85, I suppose I could best sum it up by saying "I don't care". When I started this thread I was concerned that it would be tough to start all winter. I was surprised how good E85 starts were, in actuality. Good starts down to 25F and good starts down to 12-15F by blending a full tank of E85 with 3 gallons of 91oct. I was open to tuning for better starting but never really tweaked anything at all. I was satisfied as long as I kept aware of those thresholds (25F pure E85, 12F blend) and kept an eye on temp if my car was going to be outside. Since my car is garaged at night there are only a handful of days a year that are really a problem. So the last 2 years I blended from ~December thru February and did just fine. Some tough starts occasionally and I would give it 2 minutes to warm up. This year we had a warm fall and December and I never blended at all. Pure E85 all the time, even today. BUT, that's only possible because I drive my Wrangler if my car will be sitting out in cold 25F or less. If I ever did need to drive my LGT full time thru the winter, I'd probably just make a map for a 50/50 E85/91oct blend. (Adjust injector scalar and remove ~3 degrees of timing). I think it would cold start down to 0F, maybe less, and still have a lot more punch than running straight 91oct. I'm still curious to see what other solutions people come up with though, and I may tinker in the future. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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