05 LGT vs E46 M3

[lookslikeanevo]

from experience 335's(stock) and 1 moded one(unsure if it was tuned), wasnt THAT fast...i even doubt it was faster than my current set-up... we were neck to neck and i had 4 people in the car... on a private course of course

[f1anatic]

Well one of the members here and good friend of mine Nighthawk, has a stock 335i. Over the last couple of months we have went out on occasion on our private racetrack. Consensus is he may have had a slight edge anywhere between 20 ish to a tad over 100 but that now i have a clear and consistent but small edge in that speed range after I had my flywheel changed.

 

In September of last year, on our private racetrack, we pitted the 335i, an 07 STi and my 05 GTs2 against each other and all I will say that by 100 mph I moved off line because I caught up with both and either had to brake and slow down or run in the back of them. It was a highspeed run with the 335 followed by the STi and followed by me. The STI was stock at the time and I had no issues displacing him. And by 100 we both caught up with the Bimmer and I moved off line. it seemed to me that I had most steam at that speed. We all lifted at ~140.

 

Also, another close friend who is like brothers with the above mentioned Nighthawk, wand who sports a pro-tuned s2 STI (2005), he can rape the 335i any given day and night and twice a night on week-ends.

[Nighthawk CL9]

that nighthawk guy is a dumb ass....

 

now, at that private test track, i cant vouch for the LGT pulling on stock STi, but i know that after 100 the LGT starts to run out of steam, but the 335i doesn't as much as the LGT. I am willing to bet that from a 110mph roll, we would be fairly even, seeming the upgraded flywheel frees up the revs, while the 335 would be at its sweet spot. And the reason of catching up on the track when following the 335/sti was cause (sounds nascarish) the drafting that was involved, cause side by side you would not have pulled on me.

 

On a different occasion F1 and myself were at the racetrack and we had the opportunity to run side by side, (preflywheel) and from a 20,40,60 punch. the 20,40 punch went to the 335 because of its spool time (300ft lbs at 1400rpm) but the 60punch went to the driver who got the jump, meaning the one who said go. Now all these were up to about 90, and each time the winner was only by about 3/4 cars max.

 

from a roll a stock sti will lose everytime, granted that driver wasn't the best, but the outcome would still be similar. AND to the defense of the 335, that S2 STi did lose once... from a 10 mph roll to 40.... but anywhere above that or starting the roll anywhere above 25mph the sti will take it with ease.

 

now a chipped 335, well yea, no chance unless your beyond S2.5. i would venture to say a 18g might not be able to do it under certain situations. A stock 335i, on 93, with a reflash (not the vishnu proceed even though thats the most aggressive tune) will dyno at 340whp, 380wtq on a 3550lbs car. The weight of an LGT is 3450lbs. The V2/3 procede will dyno at about 370whp/410wtq. and yes the quoted above car with Shiv at the wheel are their developmental 335.

[rao]

that nighthawk guy is a dumb ass...

 

[Nighthawk CL9]

ps... i wouldnt mess with that guys m3 ^^^^^

[rao]

My car is just an old beater with some bolt ons

 

It is still waiting for you and your briefcase full of cash

[Penguin]

Eh...no one has even brought up the Spec B factor.... so this conversation is really only theoretical. I hear the factory got a Spec B around the the Nordschlieffe in 2.30.320001. So take that.

[rao]

[f1anatic]

that nighthawk guy is a dumb ass....

 

now, at that private test track, i cant vouch for the LGT pulling on stock STi

 

Drafting or no drafting, I always thought GT s2 > oem STI. Anyways. The point is...we need to go back to our private racetrack...maybe now in May while school is out ? Talk to Mike and Jawwad ?

[camber]

The V2/3 procede will dyno at about 370whp/410wtq. and yes the quoted above car with Shiv at the wheel are their developmental 335.

 

Wasn't that the run that was 310 WHP and 380 lbs/ft of torque on a dyno dynamics in "standard mode" but they switch modes to "simulate" what you would see on a dynojet?

 

I dunno... seems to be alot of overinflating of power figures for tuned N54 engine ... Caused by a certain tuner.

 

It's cool that you that on particular dyno you can get 400 WHP on race gas. It's interesting you can run a similar tune, on drag radials with race gas, you can get a 12.4s 1/4 time. Although, I'm not sure how these one off tunes(that can't be used for daily driver duties) and results relate to daily driver performance and realiability.

 

The few tuned 335i I've got my hands on, weren't mind blowing fast. They're a quick cars but so are a whole slew of other cars that are in the same relative ball park.

[Nighthawk CL9]

Wasn't that the run that was 310 WHP and 380 lbs/ft of torque on a dyno dynamics in "standard mode" but they switch modes to "simulate" what you would see on a dynojet?

 

I dunno... seems to be alot of overinflating of power figures for tuned N54 engine ... Caused by a certain tuner.

 

It's cool that you that on particular dyno you can get 400 WHP on race gas. It's interesting you can run a similar tune, on drag radials with race gas, you can get a 12.4s 1/4 time. Although, I'm not sure how these one off tunes(that can't be used for daily driver duties) and results relate to daily driver performance and realiability.

 

The few tuned 335i I've got my hands on, weren't mind blowing fast. They're a quick cars but so are a whole slew of other cars that are in the same relative ball park.

 

to tell you the truth, i dont follow that too much because if i do, i might get tuned i dont know what the conditions/dyno they were using. however i have seen them pull an over 400WHP dyno sheet. the n54 motor is underrated from BMW and at only 9psi stock, i think its rational to see a 380whp dyno on 15psi of boost. however, i personally would not go with the procede because it is such an aggressive tune, that the reliability/turbos would be the sacrifice for the power increase. i would go with a bit of a milder tune, and as you said, there are other cars in that ball park. if i can be a 12.9@106 car, it would be perfect. 12seconds is the new 15seconds

 

and f1, what i meant is that i didnt see you personally pull, i was looking straight ahead. but yes in the end i remember seeing you in the rear view right up behind the STi, both in my rear view mirror

[camber]

Personally, I would nver go with a piggy back system like the procede to tune an engine like the N54. Flashes seem to be the way to go....

 

400 WHP dyno that is being thrown around is very misleading. It's nice to now the absolute limit you can push the N54 on race gas. However, if your not going to release the tune for public consumption after five months and haven't done serious reliability testing. What relevance does it have to daily driver performance?

 

Crap.... People we're able to ge the old 2.6L RB26DETT to over 400 WHP on the stock turbos but I don't see the points of these tunes if you have to replace your turbos at every fill up:lol:.

 

Are people going to start sticking limited life race engines in their cars and start bragging?

[rao]

They already do

[camber]

They already do

 

Sweet!!

 

I'm going to pick me up a used 1.6L turbo era BMW F1 engine and run it in qualifying trim. 1400 HP!!!

 

It's bad too it'll only last a couple times around the block:lol:

[f1anatic]

Cris bro,

 

I think your reported figure of 380 wheel horsepower is more like flywheel unless BMW driveline losses are zero and they've implemented the super german special anti gravity anti-friction device that japanese manufacturers cannot copy.

 

Vishnu stage 0 (just piggyback) - 390-400 crank

http://www.vishnutuning.com/bmw_335i.htm

 

Dinan Stage 1 - 384 horsepower

http://www.dinancars.com/store/Performance-Engine-Software-Boost-Upgrade-c-414-p-3845.html

 

What is the 335i driveline loss anyways ? 10% ?

[moviemadness]

what is our drivetrain loss?

[Nighthawk CL9]

i am not 100% sure on the 335 drivetrain loss, but i use 12%, thinking it is a fair number.

[f1anatic]

what is our drivetrain loss?

I have not seen a consistent number but depends on the dyno taking the reading. For instance COBB's: car is reportedly cranking 250 hp and on

Cobb's Mustang Dyno is reads 196 whp. If you do 196/250 = 0.784 which is 21.6% .

So 20% should be about right for awd and 10% for rwd very likely even though I read that STi's may lose 25% on another forum.

[moviemadness]

that's a lot of drivetrain loss.. damn

[camber]

Cris bro,

 

I think your reported figure of 380 wheel horsepower is more like flywheel unless BMW driveline losses are zero and they've implemented the super german special anti gravity anti-friction device that japanese manufacturers cannot copy.

 

Vishnu stage 0 (just piggyback) - 390-400 crank

http://www.vishnutuning.com/bmw_335i.htm

 

Dinan Stage 1 - 384 horsepower

http://www.dinancars.com/store/Performance-Engine-Software-Boost-Upgrade-c-414-p-3845.html

 

What is the 335i driveline loss anyways ? 10% ?

 

Like I mention already.... One tuner(shiv) has put out some really inflated dyno numbers and it seems like everyone else has to follow in N54 tuning scene. Most procede V2 tuned cars don't make it much past 320 WHP on more realistic dynos. Crap the first V2 dyno I saw was the 380 WHP dyno which was a bit fudged. They used a dyno dynamics dyno and got 310 WHP(stock dyno for that car if IIRC was at 269 WHP) but then they used those numbers to make a dyno graph of what it would look like on a dynojet and magically found another 70 WHP?

 

 

Anyways, back on topic.... If you fully max out your stock turbo with every bolt on and a protune. You've got a decent shot, from a launch of taking, out an E46 M3 with no mods. Higher speeds from a roll I would guess the M3 would have a bit of advantage. The E46 M3's general do the quarter mile in the 13.3 - 13.6 range and trap speed is 105-107 mph.

 

The new V8 M3 is a different story.

 

You would need in my estimate, at least 320 WHP range to put you on par in some situations(ie standing starts to a little over a 100 MPH). Probably mid 300 WHP and above to be clearly faster in most other acceleration tests and speeds.

 

That's just my opinion.

 

Crap... You live in Southern Calfornia.... There are more then enough qualified tuners, to get to your desired goals in an easy manner.

[rao]

The hillarious thing is that Shiv once told me I wasn't a real man when I asked about 1/4 mile results. My how times change

[16psibrick]

i have run a freinds SMG m3 in both full S2 and then after i got my current mods

 

mine is a 5eat btw

 

stage II, whcih i later found out i was putting down 230whp, it would very even until over say 80mph, then he slowly slowly walks away, between 80 and 120 or so he would pull about 1.5-2 lengths.

 

after the current mods, with 18G, meth and a relatively conservative tune, with right at 300whp, i easily pull away from him, fsater than he pulled away, between 50 and 120, i prolly put a good 4-5 lengths on him...

 

IMO, the stock set up, even with stage II, the car doesnt seem to breath too well uptop, where the m3 really does great, add to that drive train loss, its hard to convincingly beat a e46 with just stage II map.

 

however, its good to know that once oyu get yourself up to the 300whp range, the m3 guys would need to spend a TON of money (read Forced induction) to beat you again hehe

[camber]

A fully maxed out stage 2 setup with a protune, will get you pretty even and maybe a bit faster to 100 mph if you can launch well.

 

ie. TMIC, TBE and protune.

 

A basic downpipe swap and off the shelf tune won't be enough.

[2006ltdlegacy]

Sure you did.

 

Did the driver of said 335i know that you were racing? I ask because a stock 335i is a low 13 second car that traps between 104-106mph in the 1/4. The Dinan, or Vishnu tuning for that car should get it to maybe 13 seconds flat, or high 12's and trap out near 110.

 

I have not heard of many LGT's let alone stage II cars getting near those trap speeds. Think more like stage IV with full on turbo swaps and plenty of other supporting mods.

 

Well i was there driving so i know what happen. my friend owns the 335i and sucks at driving (ya i know it was an automatic) but if you ever seen this fat **** drive his car then you know what im talking about when i say sucks at driving. he wrecked his automatic g35 twice trying to drift so like i said he sucks at driving...

[Penguin]

Well i was there driving so i know what happen. my friend owns the 335i and sucks at driving (ya i know it was an automatic) but if you ever seen this fat **** drive his car then you know what im talking about when i say sucks at driving. he wrecked his automatic g35 twice trying to drift so like i said he sucks at driving...

 

 

So, was this at the track or were you douche bags racing on the street?