05GT Guru Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Someone on this website has to have a dnyo sheet, but only 170peak hp and only 163trq, i have asked people what stock 5eats hit on the dyno, they said 190hp to the wheels and 210trq to the wheels, so yes that is alot mroe, it even has more hp because everyone knows the 243hp ratting is low. Stock 5mt put down just over 200hp to the wheels and around 220trq to the wheels, and you would loose about 10 hp and 10trq more because of auto tranny. So to answer your question yes the 2.5gt peaks higher hp and trq thatn a 3.0r. I know i dotn have a dyno chart to prove it, but when you look at LGT 5MT its the same car, the onyl difference it the auto trans so you would loose around 2-10 more wheel hp and the same with trq, which transaltes into 190hp to the wheels and 210trq which is alot more than the 3.0r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Someone on this website has to have a dnyo sheet, but only 170peak hp and only 163trq, i have asked people what stock 5eats hit on the dyno, they said 190hp to the wheels and 210trq to the wheels, so yes that is alot mroe, it even has more hp because everyone knows the 243hp ratting is low. Stock 5mt put down just over 200hp to the wheels and around 220trq to the wheels, and you would loose about 10 hp and 10trq more because of auto tranny. So to answer your question yes the 2.5gt peaks higher hp and trq thatn a 3.0r. I know i dotn have a dyno chart to prove it, but when you look at LGT 5MT its the same car, the onyl difference it the auto trans so you would loose around 2-10 more wheel hp and the same with trq, which transaltes into 190hp to the wheels and 210trq which is alot more than the 3.0r thank you...i completely agree with you. people ONLY see the advertised numbers and never realize the turbos came under rated. let alone what happens when you simply do a tune. fwiw with my basic cobb stage 1 tune (havent loaded rallitek protune yet which is even more powerful) the car is easier to drive, more powerful, imo shifts in my 5 eat are better than it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 This "discussion" is all moot, since the OP hasn't been back. Congrats to all. In Australia, the Liberty is sold in both 2.5T and H6, manual and automatic. There are differences in specs like weight, emissions, these are Japan built, the final drive ratio is 3.9 in AU versus 4.1 for the US manuals, and also appears to be different for the autos. There are other model differences and anomalies (for example, no GT sedan with manual, no 2.5T Outback) compared to the US lineup, but it's another data point. 100kmh is about 62 mph. Liberty GT 2.5T Spec.B Performance Manual Automatic Max. speed (in top gear) km/h 239 233 Max. output (DIN) kW/rpm 184/6000 184/6000 Max. torque (DIN) Nm/rpm 339/3600 339/3600 0-100 Km/h secs 6.7 7.2 Fuel consumption (ADR81/01)Combined 10.9 10.9 Liberty 3.0R Spec.B Performance Manual Automatic Max. speed (in top gear) km/h 233 237 Max. output (DIN) kW/rpm 180/6600 180/6600 Max. torque (DIN) Nm/rpm 297/4200 297/4200 0-100 Km/h secs 7.0 8.4 Fuel consumption (ADR81/01)*** Combined 12.4 11.1 Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggs Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 This "discussion" is all moot, since the OP hasn't been back. Congrats to all. LOL:lol: Yep TurboMike thought to himself: "Sh1t, all the people driving 3.0R's think they are driving Bentleys and all those kids driving the Turbo think they have a Porsche in their garage!" "I'm off to buy a Kia Spectre". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggs Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Reginald Von Tuttenhausen will be turning in his grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Haha, sorry reggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 LOL:lol: Yep TurboMike thought to himself: "Sh1t, all the people driving 3.0R's think they are driving Bentleys and all those kids driving the Turbo think they have a Porsche in their garage!" "I'm off to buy a Kia Spectre". Or he found another Subaru forum where the discourse is more civil and informed. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 how is what i said not informed, the only difference is the auto tranny, which would make us loose about 5-10more hp and trq, which means an auto would have 180-190whp and 200-210wtrq, if you peaked at 163trq thats 40-50wtrq difference which is alot. And you say you hit 159trq at only 3000rpms, my turbo is pretty much fully spooled by that point so yes i would too be around peak trq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 He did just wanna know about 3.0rs though, and if you look a lot of threads back i tried to stop talking about the performance difference between the 2.5gt and 3.0r but someone had to start it up again, even though its just dumb to compare the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 He did just wanna know about 3.0rs though, and if you look a lot of threads back i tried to stop talking about the performance difference between the 2.5gt and 3.0r but someone had to start it up again, even though its just dumb to compare the two. it does ask for an opinion. opinions are usually based on 2 or more points of interest or non interest. in this case...3.0r. to have an opinion there has to be a comparison. campare against what? honda civic? makes more sense that if subaru wants to have it as their top model to compare it to the next model...the gt. since performance sells the turbo was brought up. fact is...the turbos are under rated and the 3.0r is over rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 It seems that way since he only made it to what 170hp that means he lost 75hp through the drivetrain, thats horrible, or the car is just overrated. 75hp is just over 30% drivetrain lose if the car actually does make 245hp at the crank, and over 30%is extrememly bad power lose goin from the crank to the wheels, even on a AWD car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttlejockey Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Here's my $.02 I had an 05 GT M/T and traded that in last June. We now have 12K miles on our 3.0R. I've averaged 27mpg on a trip and lately in the cold around 21-22mpg. We missed the M/T and torque shortly after we got it. I thought I could adjust, since it's her car and she drives it every day. I drive it probably 3-4 times a week. The car is really nice, but just not fun to drive like a M/T turbo car, and she agrees. Today we drove a QSM 08 SpecB today and will be trading it in on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanaue Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 If your going to mod your car the LGT is the choice but if you just want a sporty 4 door than you have 2 choices. The 3.0R is going to last longer and cost you less in the long run, you'll could drive it for 200k miles or more and not have to rebuild the motor mabe the trans but the motor will last alot longer.It's a shame you can't get a 6 spd with it so i'll have to get a LGT, as I was not happy with the auto in my 98 LGT and didn't get the mileage out of it I think I sould have. But when I drove the 05 LGT auto it felt great.No more autos for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 If your going to mod your car the LGT is the choice but if you just want a sporty 4 door than you have 2 choices. The 3.0R is going to last longer and cost you less in the long run, you'll could drive it for 200k miles or more and not have to rebuild the motor mabe the trans but the motor will last alot longer.It's a shame you can't get a 6 spd with it so i'll have to get a LGT, as I was not happy with the auto in my 98 LGT and didn't get the mileage out of it I think I sould have. But when I drove the 05 LGT auto it felt great.No more autos for me. yeah. i LOVEd the quick forced subie shift to second gear on the last gen legacy L 4eat IF you weren't flooring it. when i test drove my 07 i was checking to make sure it wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayH Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I think after reading this thread I've discovered another advantage of the 3.0R over the 2.5T. Owning a turbo seems to make the owner immature. And owning a 3.0R seems to make the owner defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRat Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The only reason that I asked if you were serious about putting NOS in your N/A engine (among a list of other things you recommended) is because it might have been a decent option when people were running around racing their small block carburated V8's. With the electronics that are in our cars now it's not a very smart thing to do that anymore. NOS has always blown up engines with prolonged use, even before ECUs were put in cars. I never advocated it's use, even when using the lower power boost options. I merely pointed out, it is an option (albeit a dumb one). So you work for Subaru. Great. Perhaps you should actually be using the knowledge you possess for some benefit here instead of smart butt remarks. You will definitely find EVERY 3.0r driver here believes the turbos are faster (with few exceptions). I came from the 2.5i world where I had 2 different cars (97 and a 00 ) and both now have 180k+ and are still in my family. My choice was made based on improved power (over other NA versions), ride / handling improvements and convenience. Find me a 2.5i with the acceleration of my 3.0r and I'd probably have bought that. If I had a turbo, I'd be unable to avoid the temptation to mod it and, driving around in New England, speed will get you killed / arrested faster than most other places. While growing up in Connecticut, my family was actively involved in SCCA racing at Limerock, primarily running Lotus', so please, spare me the condescending attitude that I don't know what performance is, or what the potential ramification of mod'ing is. Forced induction is just as dangerous as NOS when adding the same type of HP. Pump your turbo up another 75hp without any major internal upgrades and tell me your motor and tranny won't take a dump on the highway any sooner than mine would. Now that our ego's have lowered our IQs to that of school children, perhaps we could get back to the opinions. OK, for the 100th time; Want to mod? Get a turbo. Want good performance and nice features? Buy a Spec. B, a 3.0r, or a GT Limited with all the upgrades. Prices? You can get a GT Limited w/Nav for about $29 - $30k. You can get a 3.0r for $30-31k and a Spec. for $31-32k (I priced them all with a friend who owns a Subaru dealer before making my purchase). I opted for the 3.0r because I don't have time to play with my car and, if I had a turbo, would try to make time... Ultimately, I'd rather play with my kids, than my car. Now perhaps you could now help all of us, drawing from your vast knowledge of Subaru's, in figuring out what the strengths of ALL models are, instead of all the mindless bravado about how "turbos rule". One other caveat for anyone considering purchasing; It seems buying a turbo causes excessive testosterone buildup, while buying a 6 cylinder makes you defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edekba Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 heh nice one. I'm done with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanaue Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Has any mags or shows done any road test on the 3.0R ? I's love to find out what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...YKW Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 NOS has always blown up engines with prolonged use, even before ECUs were put in cars. I never advocated it's use, even when using the lower power boost options. I merely pointed out, it is an option (albeit a dumb one). So you admit that you have dumb suggestions... While growing up in Connecticut, my family was actively involved in SCCA racing at Limerock, primarily running Lotus', so please, spare me the condescending attitude that I don't know what performance is, or what the potential ramification of mod'ing is. Forced induction is just as dangerous as NOS when adding the same type of HP. Pump your turbo up another 75hp without any major internal upgrades and tell me your motor and tranny won't take a dump on the highway any sooner than mine would. Read: I drive an STi... 75 added hp (shit, even 75 added whp) isn't going to hurt my tranny or my engine. Now perhaps you could now help all of us, drawing from your vast knowledge of Subaru's, in figuring out what the strengths of ALL models are, instead of all the mindless bravado about how "turbos rule". One other caveat for anyone considering purchasing; It seems buying a turbo causes excessive testosterone buildup, while buying a 6 cylinder makes you defensive. Find a quote of me saying that turbo's rule anywhere in this thread... I dare you. All I have mentioned are some of the con's of owning any of Subaru's N/A engines. I haven't presented myself as a "Turbo Junkie" or a "Boost Freak" through any of my conversations (in fact, I wish 05 GT Guru would go play in front of gun fire because he's making people with turbo's look like we don't have an education). I only used you as an example because you deemed yourself intelligent enough to offer such brilliant solutions as: Headers, COA, bigger injectors, throttle body spacers, bigger fuel pumps, water injection, porting and polishing, does anyone remember NoS? For some reason everytime I read that post 80's hairband music starts to play and I have an urge to get in my IROC, let my mullet show with pride and blare White Snake through my stereo. Good job, you're white trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 So you admit that you have dumb suggestions... Read: I drive an STi... 75 added hp (shit, even 75 added whp) isn't going to hurt my tranny or my engine. Find a quote of me saying that turbo's rule anywhere in this thread... I dare you. All I have mentioned are some of the con's of owning any of Subaru's N/A engines. I haven't presented myself as a "Turbo Junkie" or a "Boost Freak" through any of my conversations (in fact, I wish 05 GT Guru would go play in front of gun fire because he's making people with turbo's look like we don't have an education). I only used you as an example because you deemed yourself intelligent enough to offer such brilliant solutions as: For some reason everytime I read that post 80's hairband music starts to play and I have an urge to get in my IROC, let my mullet show with pride and blare White Snake through my stereo. Good job, you're white trash. Why, find on here where i say turbos rule, all i ever said is they are better from a mod point of view. I even said a couple times that i would have gotten a 3.0r if i was gonna leave it stock. So what did i say that made us look like we dont have a education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...YKW Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 You have posted about HP and Torque in the majority of your posts in this thread. There were no questions about HP and Torque in the original post and you immediately took it there. Take your "Stage 2" Legacy and your mental math calculations and post it somewhere else. The OP had a very simple question and you immediately started telling us about modding a car. Not everyone (in fact, most) consumers don't use the ability to mod a vehicle as part of their purchasing criteria. He was more concerned with headlights, maintenance and gas mileage... how does that translate into torque and hp numbers? I'm glad that you work on your own car, have taken the time to gut your cats and then continued to tune it yourself (which is really impressive and I respect you for that), but this is not the thread for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I know and once again i say, if you read a couple pages back i tried to stop the talking about mods, and tell him what i thought about the car itself. But then someone had to post there 3.0r dyno chart and say he didnt even believe auto LGTs have more trq to the ground. I was simply stateing that he was wrong and showign him why and how i came to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Ok then, i have driven a couple 3.0rs, they are solid cars with some nice features, and yes you can run them on regular octane, im not sure i would run a high compression car on high octane but some people do. Right here, after some kids said we are way off topic, in case you are wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...YKW Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 So what did i say that made us look like we dont have a education? THIS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Lol your a fag:spin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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