xt2005bonbon Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 On a more serious note deltasierrahotel, why don't you go and redo the test elsewhere to confirm the results? There must be some subaru tuners where you live who can do this test cheaper for you. Btw, you've only done a compression test right? no leak down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Shame on subaru? Shame on you for not understanding your results and jumping to conclusions and blame the quality of subaru parts. If it's hitting 123psi it's fine, typically higher mileage EJ255/7 will be 120psi+, it's the change between the cylinders is what's important. Yeah, I'll stand by that. If I were the only one having this problem that would be different, but valve/ringland problems are a pretty major failing that has occurred to many users of this forum under 100k miles. A failing that major should happen as a fluke here and there, not as a systemic issue that is costing lots of people lots of money. So shame on Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 On a more serious note deltasierrahotel, why don't you go and redo the test elsewhere to confirm the results? There must be some subaru tuners where you live who can do this test cheaper for you. Btw, you've only done a compression test right? no leak down? Thanks, xt2005bonbon. I did have a leakdown test on #2 and #4 with 5% loss on #4 and 0% on #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 So hang on, did the dealer perform the tests on all 4 cylinders? If yes, could you post results for all four? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Compression test on all cylinders: 1-125psi, 2-125psi, 3-124psi, 4-30psi on first pump then 123 psi on second. Leak down on cylinders 2&4: 2-0% loss, 4-5% loss. No leak down test done on 1&3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Compression test on all cylinders: 1-125psi, 2-125psi, 3-124psi, 4-30psi on first pump then 123 psi on second. Leak down on cylinders 2&4: 2-0% loss, 4-5% loss. No leak down test done on 1&3. Thanks for posting the results. on first pump? it either reads correctly or it doesn't, if it read 123psi after it's 123psi. sometimes the compression gauge can be finicky and/or it's 1-way ball valve can be sticky making one reading falsely low That's why I'd advise to get a second compression test elsewhere. I know it'll be an extra 200$ or less. But you never know. This time I'd just do a compression test though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Yeah, that's what it says. I'm waiting to talk to the mechanic and decipher his notes. I've never done a compression test myself, but I do want to know why the results would be different on first and second pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 So I talked to the mechanic and he's pretty certain I have a burnt valve. He said he's never seen a ringland issue on a stock LGT, only modded ones. So I'll be getting a valve job and a new timing belt and lots of seals while they're in there. I'm going to pull the motor myself and deliver it. Anybody know of a walk through out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It is certainly true (from what I've read) that there are cases of burnt valve on stock engine apparently due to the stock tune. But I would still do this: get a second opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I emailed RalliSpec and hopefully I can talk to somebody there for a second opinion. I may have to take it there for another compression test. I just have a hard time believing that the dealer doesn't know how to do a compression test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's a dealer, they're looking to make money. They love to tell you something's wrong when it isn't. This is how they work and stay in business. I have a personal connection with the mechanic and he's trying to help me out. He's not the service manager and his yearly bonus doesn't depend on how many unnecessary valve jobs the dealership does. I know he's not trying to screw me over and he's not an idiot. I would like to get a second opinion, but chalking this up to a dealer trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist in order to make more money doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I am not necessarily doubting the results from the dealer. It is just from a 'scientific' point of view. The purpose of the second opinion is simply to either confirm or deny the current compression test results. That's all. Edit: then again, don't feel compelled to do another test. If you feel it is really time for a valve job, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I am not necessarily doubting the results from the dealer. It is just from a 'scientific' point of view. The purpose of the second opinion is simply to either confirm or deny the current compression test results. That's all. Sure, that makes sense, and thanks for your input. I just think it's not a good plan to simply dismiss the opinion of a professional who works exclusively on Subarus every day by saying that the dealer is trying to steal my money. He could be mistaken in his diagnosis though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 if that cyl had 5% leakdown loss and he said it was a valve issue, he was mistaken. I'd bet my paycheck on it. Any suggestions as to what else may be causing my misfire then? I've already ruled out plugs, coil packs and injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 during warmup for the most part, while idling at a stop light or something. occasionally I get a pending P0304 code when warm, but it doesn't throw the CEL unless it's cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I did test the intake manifold gaskets by spraying carb cleaner on them during warmup and listening for an engine surge, but I didn't hear one. Maybe I should replace them anyway since they're cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 How's the engine response anyway when you drive? Any hesitations? Plenty of power? or does it feel sluggish? Just curious. Do you have some cabin shake when fully warmed up? How's the rpm at idle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Okay, definitely makes sense to give this a shot before getting another compression test. I think I've ruled this out but let's be sure. Just ordered 4 from fredbeansparts.com. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 How's the engine response anyway when you drive? Any hesitations? Plenty of power? or does it feel sluggish? Just curious. Do you have some cabin shake when fully warmed up? How's the rpm at idle? No loss of power when driving. Once it's warmed up it drives just fine. This problem only just started recently when it got really cold here in PA. I do have some cabin shake when warmed up and sitting at a stop, but that's always been the case since I got the car and I understood that to be normal for the Boxer engine (first Subaru I've owned). If it's gotten worse it's been gradual and I can't really say if it's always been this way. RPM at idle when warm is about 750. When it's cold it idles rough and that's when I sometimes get a misfire. Also, I stated this earlier but do want to bring it back up--when I changed my plugs, 1-3 looked great but 4 was carbon fouled. Can't get good pictures up close with my phone to show you and don't have another camera at the moment, but I thought I'd throw that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 every subaru dealer stocks these in-house The closest one to me, Glanzmann Subaru, did not have them in stock when I called last week. The next closest is Fred Beans so I ordered online and will pick them up when they're ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 sounds like classic IM gasket issue Well that would be great and I will definitely give it a shot, I just thought I had ruled that out earlier. Could that lead to carbon on plug 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 According to the manual: Carbon fouled spark plug: Dry fluffy carbon deposits on insulator and electrode are mostly caused by slow speed driving in the city, weak ignition, too rich fuel mixture and dirty air cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I might add: Oil fouled:Wet black deposits show oil entrance into the combustion chamber through worn rings and pistons or excessive clearance between valve guides and stems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 According to the manual: Carbon fouled spark plug: Dry fluffy carbon deposits on insulator and electrode are mostly caused by slow speed driving in the city, weak ignition, too rich fuel mixture and dirty air cleaner. Yeah, I read that earlier, and almost all of my driving is around-town (Most days I drive only 10 miles round trip to work and back, all in suburbia rush hour.) But I would think I should have carbon on all of the plugs then, right? Not just #4? If I had an injector issue the misfire should have moved by now to #1 since I swapped the injectors a week ago and drove about 100 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 But I would think I should have carbon on all of the plugs then, right? Not just #4? That's seems logical and I would think the same thing, but unfortunately I guess you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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